Talk:Logan Fontenelle

A fact from Logan Fontenelle appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 June 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Omaha chief Logan Fontenelle sold the Omaha land to the U.S. government and was subsequently killed by Brulé and Arapaho?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/June.

Wikipedia

Indigenous peoples of North America Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Native Americans, Indigenous peoples in Canada, and related indigenous peoples of North America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Indigenous peoples of North AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North AmericaIndigenous peoples of North America articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

United States: Nebraska Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Nebraska portal This article is supported by WikiProject Nebraska.

Biography assessment rating comment

The article is close to a B. The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Jreferee ^(Talk) 16:50, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bellevue

I see no relation between Logan Fontenelle and the founding of Bellevue. His father Lucien Fontenelle, a fur trader, sold Fontenelle's Post to the US government, which used it as headquarters of an Indian agency for some time. This may have helped develop the later Bellevue, but even that is unclear. Took out the reference.Parkwells (talk) 04:35, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pure speculation: Was Logan's job as the interpreter at Bellevue consequential of his father's sale of the post to the US government? Or vice versa: Did the sale of the post happen because of Logan's role with the government? In the Fontenelle's Post article it sounds like the former, but I want to make sure it's not the latter. Your citations are showing that Fontenelle's legend was clearly inflated. Is this conjecture part of that inflation? • Freechildtalk 23:12, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Logan's legitimacy

Parkwells, congrats on your spectacular edits this morning. Just to let you know, you're treading on controversial ground- although I'm sure you're finding that in your research. I hope the literature does speak to the controversy, which revolves around the perceptions of Logan's tribal membership and chiefdom. To my understanding, there is a belief among the Omahas that Logan was a member, but the academic community and non-Omaha history scholars have thrown uncertainty in this conversation. However, the tribe itself is not even in clear agreement within the tribe about whether or not he was within the tribe. Academic scholars are closer to agreeing that he was, but non-academic historians don't agree. Your research is slanting against both those argument, but I don't have time to dig otherwise right now. Just wanted to give you another perspective... • Freechildtalk 17:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I figured it was controversial, but what is interesting is that in 1917-1919, when Gilmore published his article (and he had 2 or 3 more in that issue), he wrote that among the Omaha he had talked with, who were living when Fontenelle was alive and the events took place, they consistently said he was not chief and did not know why the whites had elevated him. You should read it; he has quite a lengthy statement about it being unfortunate to mistakenly honor people of the past. It appears that LaFlesche was a much more substantial character - certainly his children made him proud. Gilmore had the details of the names of the seven chiefs known to have gone to DC for the sale (from more than one source), and I believe that Boughter relied on his work. In addition, he said only Fontenelle's family contended he could have been chief by his maternal line. He had more detailed material in the article about the gens/clan structure of the tribe, which at the time of Fontenelle were still strong, controlling traditional structures: there were two half-tribes and each had five gens. LaFlesche became chief because Big Elk adopted him, named him as his successor and trained him. Also, Gilmore is consistent with the 1889 Bancroft Journal account, closer in time to the events. The "white man" quote came from an Omaha who had been hunting with the group when they were attacked, and Fontenelle was killed. I'd never seen such a statement before, but it helps explain continuing divisions among half-bloods and full-bloods (which are part of the near past and present at many places, including Pine Ridge Reservation, for instance.) Boughter is a contemporary academic, and Gilmore sounds as if he was highly trained. Boughter referred to the confusing accounts, but also provides the details of the chiefs at the treaty-signing.Parkwells (talk) 19:38, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is drawing back around to the Nemaha Half-Breed Reservation and that whole phenomenon of providing segregated spaces that enshrined and/or acknowledged the valid but disputed identities of non-"whole blood" Indians, isn't it? Fascinating. I LOVE THE TENSION of history Parkwells- it excites me. • Freechildtalk 20:57, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it is exciting- was going to look at the Half-Breed Tract again, too. The identity was disputed on both sides, it seems, and/but some of the mixed-race families accomplished great things - like the La Flesche children. There were similar issues and families in Canada. Read more in Boughter - apparently at the time of Fontenelle's death, both the Indian agent George Hepner (who replaced Gatewood in 1854) and LaFlesche referred to him as a chief, but maybe that was for their own purposes, and continuing to try to keep the 1854 treaty validated; other Omaha at the time dismissed him as "the interpreter, the white man." It is fascinating.Parkwells (talk) 15:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wowwwwwwwwwww. I wonder how the half-breed reservations in other areas assigned their membership? Fascinating. • Freechildtalk 16:42, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wanted to learn more about the romanticization of Logan so I researched the Fontenelle Forest, named in 1920. Alas, nothing about his name. But I did blow out the article! • Freechildtalk 21:48, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Section headings

Parkwells, I took the liberty of adding section headings where I thought it was most appropriate. I hope you will adjust them as you see fit. • Freechildtalk 23:21, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Logan Fontenelle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111109064447/http://www.lewisandclarktravel.com/index.php/site/escape_from_death_and_a_sisters_revenge_the_daughters_of_omaha_chief_big_el/ to http://www.lewisandclarktravel.com/index.php/site/escape_from_death_and_a_sisters_revenge_the_daughters_of_omaha_chief_big_el

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:26, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]