Talk:Mackinac Bridge/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Labor unions

Isn't there some festival of steel workers celebrated near the Mackinaw Bridge? Also, what is the significance of walking the bridge on Labor day (related to Labor unions?) MPS 19:30, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

dog's sway breaking the bridge

I heard three out of five friends say they have seen articles saying something re:dogs wadle enough given an "x" amount of traffic of dogs to make the center span of approx. 135 ft.collapse the mackinaw bridge.can you please research this for me.They say they saw it in some magizine article.



Wikipedia is not a Q&A site, and we don't do research. This sounds like a math problem, so you may want to study more related to that. Best of luck —dcclark (talk) 19:15, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Unlikely; the Myth Busters disproved the myth of the marching army collapsing a bridge so I highly doubt dogs could... In order for anything to collapse a bridge it would have to be close to; or over the overloading limit of the structure anyways.

Death of worker

A recently added "trivia" item by User:MPS says that three workers died during construction--one of whom is embedded somewhere in the concrete. I highly doubt this is true, but the other trivia added along with it is valid, so I'm checking here before removal. Where did you get this information?

I got the "three deaths" from random googled site that I can't find anymore. New search turned up this "Bridge workers toiled without safety harnesses or nets. Perched high above the waters, they relied on guts and skill. The dangers claimed the lives of a diver, one laborer and three steel workers during the 42-month construction" . As for the death by concrete thing... being from Northern Michigan, you hear this story a lot. It could be Urban Legend but it's just as notable as local legend even if it is not verifiably true.MPS 13:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Years ago while up north with my parents, we took a boat tour beneath the Mighty Mac. The narrator said there are no bodies buried in the concrete. Read/Heard/Saw somewhere (Mythbusters?) that a body would weaken the concrete if left. Dwp49423 15:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Found a written source confirming there are no bodies in the concrete of the bridge. [[1]] However, one body was never recovered-this could be the source of the rumor. Dwp49423 20:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Interstate Highway System deficiency

It should be noted that the Mackinac Bridge has several features that don't conform to the Interstate Highway standards. For instance, the article states that the inner travel lanes only have a width of 11 ft, narrower than the specified 12 feet. Also, the speed limit is only 45 mph, less than AASHTO's required minimum 50 MPH, and the desired 70 MPH for rural areas, not to mention Michigan's specification of 75 MPH (60 MPH for urban areas). Additionally, the center mall is no Jersey barrier, so the roadway is, for all intents and purposes, an undivided road; also there are no shoulders.

So, isn't this bridge a deficient section of an Interstate Highway? Is this an example of a pre-Interstate era bridge that was "grandfathered" into the system? --141.213.178.11 04:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Minor detail, but Michigan expressways are 70 MPH, not 75. I presume that yes, it was "grandfathered" in, as correcting the "deficiencies" would probably be impossible on the bridge. I imagine there may exist a source somewhere for this, but I'm not sure it's actually that big of a deal. There are lots of odd segments of highways, many on bridges. -- dcclark (talk) 04:29, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Length

I added the following: "However, because of the long leadups to the anchorages on the Mackinac, from waterline to waterline it is much longer than the Akashi-Kaikyo (5 miles compared to 2.4)." While the Mackinac is comparatively short between towers, it is very long from the towers to the shoreline, thus making it twice as long a structure as the AK. We should make this clear. I used to think the AK was longer than 5 miles, but I guess not. Does this mean that the Mackinac is the longest suspension bridge measuring from shoreline to shoreline? (i.e. not including non-suspension bridges, or hybrids like the Chesapeake Bay or Lake Ponchartrain Causeway which are longer than 5 miles) If it is, we should mention that as well. Regardless of bridges that have longer spans, the Mackinac is still a mighty structure that may have no equal. Ypsidan 01:39, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Trivia: Steinman quote

I removed the following text from the trivia section. Although plausible, I could find no reference to the quote anywhere. Furthermore, according to wikipedia guidelines, direct quotations always require citations.

Before the bridge was opened a reporter asked Steinman what would happen if a Great Lake freighter hit the bridge. Steinman replied that "that the ship will sink with a large loss of life".

I should have signed the above comment with: -- Taranah 17:22, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Ferry Service

The article says this:

In 1923, the state legislature ordered the State Highway Department to re-establish ferry service across the strait.

But no where that I can see does it say when the ferry service stopped before 1923. BeckyAnne 00:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Yoopers and the Trolls?

Residents of the Upper Peninsula ("Yoopers") often refer to Lower Peninsula residents as "trolls" because they live "below the bridge."


I wouldn't say that Yoopers call those under the bridge trolls: let alone "often". I don't and no one I know does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.90.98.114 (talk • contribs)

It certainly happens. Perhaps it is more common as you get deeper into the UP (I'm in Houghton), but it's fairly common. -- dcclark (talk) 21:34, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
Yoopers and Trolls phrase is part of Michigan History, I live miles below the bridge and I know about the Yooper and Trolls names, always said tongue in cheek. BeckyAnne(talk) 21:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I may have been the one to add that ... but in any case I can vouch that it's common in the northern lower peninsula. Do we need a source? google says... [2] Michigan Tech student handbook is certainly reliable source. MPS 01:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Adding a source never hurts, and it does look like a reliable source to me, but I am just a newbie. BeckyAnne(talk) 01:09, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Another thought came to me, most people from Michigan have heard of the term, but not everyone reading this article will be from Michigan, and it can be seen as derogatory, and someone may challenge the term. BeckyAnne(talk) 01:18, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Vanderbilt

The current article states:

On July 1, 1888, at a meeting board of directors of the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island, the famous entrepreneur Cornelius Vanderbilt advocated the building of a bridge across the straits in order to help lengthen the resort season of the hotel

Cornelius Vanderbilt died in 1877. Anybody want to correct this with the right information?Civil Engineer III 14:18, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

  • An otherwise legitimate source is incorrect here. The Detroit News' section "The Breathtaking Mackinac Bridge" reads: In 1887, a group of investors headed by Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt, opened the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island. Vanderbilt remarked; "We now have the largest well-equipped hotel of its kind in the world for short season business. Now what we need is a bridge across the Straits." Dwp49423 22:41, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Counties

What county does the Bridge end at its south end--Emmet or Cheboygan?

  • It appears to end on the county line. I know I-75 does duck into Emmet County just before the bridge but looking at a Mapquest view the southern terminus appears to be right on the line.

Dwp49423 18:50, 28 July 2007 (UTC)


Firewood inspections

This page about the Michigan government shutdown says that there are firewood inspections on the Mackinac Bridge. Whyever would they do that? If someone could add a para on the article explaining why, I think that would make a valuable addition to the article. 217.42.190.82 20:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

They are not inspecting the firewood, they are taking it. They are trying to stop the spread of Emerald Ash Borer. BeckyAnne(talk) 21:26, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Lead image

The new lead image is mostly sky and water, whereas the previous one was mostly bridge. I think the two images should be swapped. - Denimadept (talk) 02:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I like the new image, but I will withhold judgement for now on keeping it in the lead until we get more input. Asher196 (talk) 03:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
My preference would be the previous lead image. The sunset picture is very attractive, but I am not sure of its encyclopedic value. As stated, the sunset image is too much sea and sky. This means that visually challenged readers may have a hard time discerning the bridge within the image. As a whole, this article is getting too many images. (I mean I sure am glad I have pictures to tell me that it both snows and rains on this bridge. I was beginning to think they didn't get precipitation in the middle of the lake.) I recommend removing images which do not add to the text and placing a link to more images on {{Commons}} per Manual of Style#Images. - ¢Spender1983 (talk) 01:38, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Photo Validity

This picture is in the tourism section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mackinacbridgetourism.jpg

With this caption: A photography enthusiast demonstrating a manipulated background technique.

Do we really need to know the uploader (pictured) is a photography enthusiast? Or what technique he's using? It seems to me to be more of a vanity addition than actually useful to the article. I'll remove it for now, if anyone disagrees feel free to revert me. Josehunder (talk) 02:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

For the cars that fell in the water.....

Can we add the date (mm/dd/yy) of 'em?


Deleted this passage -- unsourced and fabricated:

  • A Saginaw News article printed shortly after Pluhar's 1989 accident stated that Michigan State Police divers were shocked to find many other vehicles on the bottom of the lake below the bridge. The article had a quote from one of the divers saying that it 'looked like a junkyard down there'.


The sum total of vehicles which have gone off the Mackinac Bridge is two (2). —Preceding unsigned comment added by JStarStar (talk • contribs) 19:17, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Photos

Can we reach some consensus about removing some photos from the article? It's starting to look like a photo gallery, and I wanted to upload the images of the stamps (if that's allowable), but to do so would mean more photos in the article. There's too many now. Imzadi1979 (talk) 20:56, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Put them on Commons. In fact, if any of the "extra" images are in Commons, remove them from the article if that'll make it better in your opinion. - Denimadept (talk) 02:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Great Belt Bridge, Denmark

I think that the Great Belt Bridge should be mentioned, since the Big Mac is #3 in the world after AKB and the Great Belt Bridge (http://mackinacbridge.org/about-the-bridge-8/). Baumann314159 (talk) 12:56, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Verrazano-Narrows Bridge

Imzadi: I had that precise discussion with a guide on a tour boat in the Hudson River in 1965, just after it opened. So there is some "eclipsing" or at least a disputed claim to various superlative titles. To be sure, there is a distinction. If you read the Wikipedia article on it, you will note the distinction and the competing and confusing claims. I thought, and still think that the existence of these two bridges and their respective claims to fame put the suspension bridges into a larger context. I don't think ignoring the bridge will make it go away. The readers will be better served by an organized discussion and distinction. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:58, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

A one-sentence addition that muddies the waters even more does the reader a bigger disservice than trying to explain the distinctions. The reason the Mackinac is "longest between anchorages" is that the Golden Gate Bridge's main span is longer than the Mackinac's, and that's an older bridge. The Mackinac never held a "longest main/center span" record, ever, so saying that the Verrazano eclipsed a record the Mackinac never held is confusing.
Main spans
  • Verrazano-Narrows (1964): 4,260 feet
  • Golden Gate (1937): 4,200 feet
  • Mackinac (1957): 3,800 feet
In other words, the Verrazano-Narrows eclipsed a record held by the Golden Gate, but not by the Mackinac. Imzadi 1979 → 19:30, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Questions

Is the deck of the suspended portion actually attached and resting on the main tower or is it just one big 8000 foot span held up by the main tower. I've been under the impression that bridge just went through the towers and all its weight was supported by the cables. KelleyCook 22:25, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

  • From the Dirty Job episode, it appears the road is hung from the cables and the cables are hung over the towers so while the road passes through the towers, the towers don't directly support the road. But there was something about truss hangers on the towers. I have it on tape so I'll double check when I get a chance...Dwp49423 13:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The deck sits between the towers and is completely suspended by the cables. On a windy day you can fell the bridge sway several feet back and forth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.217.37.57 (talk) 14:44, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Was the Mackinac Bridge design inspired by the design of the Golden Gate Bridge? --SuperDude 03:42, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

  • no, suspension bridges have been around for many, many years prior to the GGB

How does the cable bent pier effect the length of the suspended portion of the bridge? How does that compare to other suspension bridges?

How long are other suspension bridges in total length, from shore to shore, for example?

I, Robot, again

The article has a 'in the media' section. I think this bridge is used in the movie 'I, robot', yet it isn't mentioned in the wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.178.146.10 (talk) 03:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Nope, completely different style of tower. - Denimadept (talk) 03:35, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

^^Wrong. It is in fact used in the movie IRobot — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.217.37.60 (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Not only different style of tower, also different type of deck. Check it out. - Denimadept (talk) 03:49, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Map

The map currently on the page is truly horrific. I'm not good with graphics and maps myself, but there must be a better basic Michigan map available which doesn't distort the shape and relative sizes of the peninsulas. --Dcclark 20:39, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yugo blew off: 1989 or 1987?

A line about a Yugo being blown off the bridge was recently added, citing a date of 1987. I changed the date to 1989 based on these sources: Detroit News and State News (note that they name the car as a 1987 Yugo). I found a few references to the fall happening in 1987, but these sources seem most reputable. Does anyone have some actual newspaper clippings or more definite information? --Dcclark 07:21, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

My Bad. It looks like the 1987 Yugo blew off in 1989. MPS 13:59, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Same here, sorry for the confusion. Gsgeorge 17:04, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

The Yugo, driven by a woman, was involved in a collision with a delivery van, as the wind blew the car into the side of a van passing in the left lane. The car bounced off the van, lost control and flipped over the outer guard rail and into the channel below. The 32 foot spacing between the cables allowed the car to pass through unabated. The 200+ foot plunge killed the driver instantly. It was determined from an autopsy that the woman was over the legal BAC limit of .08.PMB54 (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)PMB54

Suicides on the Mackinac Bridge

There should also be more infomation about iccidents of suicide on the Mackinac bridge. Even though they are rare, there are several sources on the web that document it.Ricky.Adams (talk) 17:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Why are they notable? I don't understand why they were added to the Golden Gate Bridge either. BTW, new discussion goes at the end of the page, not at the top. - Denimadept (talk) 18:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

There has never been a verified suicide on the Mackinaw Bridge in it's history. Several years ago, a car was found abandoned on the center span of the bridge but, no witnesses ever reported seeing a driver and evidence indicated that the driver may have been picked up by another vehicle to give the impression that a suicide had occurred.PMB54 (talk) 23:28, 6 February 2014 (UTC) PMB54

error?

the article states that the bridge was scheduled to open on November 1, 1956. one paragraph later it says the bridge opened as scheduled on November 1, 1957. what gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.240.226.20 (talk) 15:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Having now checked both references, there is indeed a discrepancy. They contain different dates. If you can resolve that using more references, please update the article. - Denimadept (talk) 16:05, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

A picture is worth a thousand words

"Footpaths to Freeways: The Evolution of Michigan Road Maps" (photograph of 2007 map cover). Michigan State University. Retrieved June 3, 2014. The picture of the map (that is the front cover with the Mackinac Bridge on it) is better than just using the unpictured map as a reference. That I have had to put this back time and again is incomprehensible to me. This has been a two or three year long edit war, and you (User: Imzadi1979) and I disagree. All you are doing is deliberately dumbing down this article (and I do WP:AGF on your part especially, so please don't misunderstand my intent), and not using available effective illustrative resources. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 22:32, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't dealt with that recently, but do we really need two sources for such a simple statement when the actual map itself backs the information in the article? Given your tone, I will just take this article off my watch list, good day. Imzadi 1979 → 22:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 23:08, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

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Length between anchorages

Mackinac Bridge: "The length of the suspension bridge (including anchorages) is 8,614 feet." (from Reference [3])

Regarding the "longest suspension bridge between anchorages in the Western hemisphere" claim, is UK and/or DK part of the "Western hemisphere"? -- KlausFoehl (talk) 15:20, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

User:KlausFoehl No and no. Depending on Old world/New world definition. But see Western hemisphere, where the line and definition is subject to debate. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:23, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for referring to the explanation. FYI the Humber Bridge lies at 53.7064°N 0.4502°W. -- KlausFoehl (talk) 22:13, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
What do you want to do? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:55, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
I did not come round with the desire to do something. I just spotted the error. What I want: getting wrong info corrected on wikipedia. Maybe I should have gone straight for the article. Instead I've implicitly asked for a second pair of eyes, whether the facts I collected are correct indeed. -- KlausFoehl (talk) 13:53, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

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IMDB

The IMDB is not a reliable per WP standards (Wikipedia:Citing IMDb) as it editable by users. --Spshu (talk) 14:46, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Will address that with other sources.
Meanwhile, you continue to remove other material that is properly sourced. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:48, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
No, one expressly unsourced and the other was trivia, the bridge on the cover of a calendar. Spshu (talk) 14:50, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Another was PR sourced and basically trivia too. Stop Edit warring since you know that you cannot just add it back. Spshu (talk) 14:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Added a reliable source. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
And how do you know that it is a reliable source you don't even indicate who the publisher is. Second, don't split the discussion. Spshu (talk) 15:02, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Click on the link and you will find its source. Stop Edit warring since you know that you cannot just delete it. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:08, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
"TEACH: Building the Mackinac Bridge". teach.GLIN.net. Great Lakes Commission. Retrieved September 29, 2016. The Commission is part of the U.S. federal government. Hope that clarifies that and allays your concern. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:14, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Attribution

Text and references copied from Mackinac Bridge to Gephyrophobia. See former article's history for a list of contributors. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:09, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

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Longest suspension bridge in the Western Hemisphere?

I don't think this is possible - the Humber bridge is in the western hemisphere and is longer than this bridge. 2A02:C7F:6E55:3F00:D2B:3C4D:804:C584 (talk) 18:31, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

I already made this mistake. The Mackinac bridge has a shorter main span, but the total distance crossed is further than that of the Humber. The Humber bridge has the longest main span of any bridge in the western hemisphere, while the Mackinac has the furthest distance between anchorages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elit3powars (talk • contribs) 22:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

8.038 km long bridge ????

Imzadi1979 Echtner Lakwat Huggums537 Transpoman The article says, in Intro, that the bridge is 8.038 km long. Do you even know how long is 8000 kilometers ?? Its like from Vancouver to Toronto. Are you telling me this bridge is that long ?? 76.21.97.234 (talk) 05:29, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

In English, the period is used as a decimal point. In this case, it's saying that it's just over 8 km. The comma is used as the thousands separator, so if it was over 8 thousand, it would be written as "8,038", not "8.038". Imzadi 1979 → 05:43, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
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