Talk:Monastery of Saint George of Choziba

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Requested move 16 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Monastery of Saints John and George of Choziba. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 15:37, 20 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Monastery of St. George of Choziba → Monastery of Saints George and John Jacob of Choziba – Misleading. From what I can tell, "Choziba" doesn't refer to "George of Choziba", but to "John Jacob of Choziba". Could as well extend leeway in this article name per WP:PRECISE and WP:NATURALDISAMBIGUATION, considering the many Church of Saint George. While at it, might as well circumvent the "St/St." British-American language controversy, which either way doesn't apply to this context. PPEMES (talk) 13:19, 16 August 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 14:27, 4 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose proposal. I was going to close this myself and move the article, but I think "Jacob" is incorrect. The monastery is named for George of Choziba and John of Choziba. I get lots of hits for Monastery of Saints John and George of Choziba and I would support that or simpler Monastery of Choziba. Srnec (talk) 23:52, 30 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If so, I'd support ALT Monastery of Saints John and George of Choziba. PPEMES (talk) 14:17, 31 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

List of Abbots

Fr. Constantinos is listed here as being the abbot since 2018. I met Fr. Constantinos in 2017, and he was identified as the abbot. Can we find any sources on this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.83.39.89 (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but you're wrong: I wrote "as of 2018", meaning: valid in 2018. That's because he's too modest to tell me for how long he's been abbot. Now I've updated: "as of 2019". I found a mention of him receiving the Patriarch in 2016, so he's been abbot at least between 2016-2019, but I still don't know when he took over. If you do, feel free to add smth. like "current abbot, holds this position since xxxx". Arminden (talk) 16:50, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The renaming of the article is holy BS at its best :)

@Steel1943, Amakuru, PPEMES, and Srnec: You were seriously wrong when you renamed the article. There are 3 saints connected to the monastery: 2 Byzantine-period ones, and a modern one. The former are John of Thebes and George of Choziba, the latter is Ioan Iacob [the Romanian] of [Neamţ and] Choziba. -- The monastic name of the Romanian, Ioan, is John in English, and as any monastic name, it can or has to be translated, while the surname is written between brackets (monks have renounced the world and a surname is not needed in their new life, but stays on in official paperwork), so it shouldn't be translated to Jacob, which leads to: John (Iacob) [the Romanian] of [Neamţ and] Choziba. Why the bits in straight brackets: Romanians will always mention Neamţ, others (such as Greeks) usually add "the Romanian" to the name. -- Altogether: John of Thebes was the first and has ALWAYS been available, but to my knowledge was NEVER included into the name of the monastery. John (Iacob) the Romanian is the one added to the name, that's why the new name only appeared after his canonisation by the Patriarchate of Jerusalem (2016); and knowing that, his name belongs AFTER that of the older saint, St George. Leads to: Monastery of Saints George and John of Choziba. Never the other way round. Maybe from a Romanian pilgrim's perspective St John is the main attraction, but it's Jerusalem that chooses the official names in the Holy Land. And who did ever find the official name, and where? I wanna see it to believe.

True, Google shows 64 separate hits for "John and George of Choziba" and just one hit for "George and John of Choziba". But 64 is nothing on Google, and several of the 64 are confusing the Johns, adding the ancient John of Thebes to the name, where he apparently never belonged.

Almost EVERYBODY alive calls the monastery as they always have: Saint George Monastery. Saint George Monastery (Choziba), or Saint George Monastery (Wadi Qelt) would be the best true-to-life solution - or, as already suggested, Monastery of Choziba. If you want to use the official name, first find an official source - and may Sts John, George, and John again enlighten you through the mess of the Jerusalem Patriarchate and the Orthodox bureaucracy at large.

PS: Or I'm totally wrong, but so were you, because there's no source either way. Arminden (talk) 20:40, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]