Talk:Murder of Bobbie Jo Stinnett

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:

January 10 to 16, 2021 (12th)

alive while baby was cut from womb?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299859,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.226.243 (talk) 07:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa K. Montgomery article

The corresponding biographic article for Lisa K. Montgomery needs to be expanded. Areas that need coverage include Lisa Montgomery's early life, the motivation for the attack, details of the murder/arrest/trial, and current events as they unfold. If anyone is doing research on Bobbie Jo Stinnett, please take a moment and help improve the Lisa K. Montgomery article. Thanks! -- Biobaby89 20:59, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There was also an excellent and informative book published by M. William Phelps in 2006 about the case titled /Murder in the Heartland/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.59.174.46 (talk) 21:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:50, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merger proposal

CLOSED

Agree to merging of article(s) to the Murder of Bobbie Jo Stinnett article as per wp:N/CA, wp:Crime, and wp:Notable. Non-Administrative closure-- GenQuest ^{"Talk to Me"} 19:16, 2 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I feel that this should be merged with the Lisa M. Montgomery page. Neither are quite notable in and of themselves. I would imagine that that a single page for the crime itself such as Death of Bobby Jo Stinnett would be most appropriate.--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 23:26, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:This proposal, made when the title here was simply "Bobbie Jo Stinnett", was overtaken by this page move in November, A new merge proposal, for the content of the "Lisa M. Montgomery" page to be merged here, was made on 8 January 2018.(Added for clarity by Swanny18 (talk) 00:38, 20 January 2018 (UTC))[reply]

Oppose - this is a noted crime and criminal. --BabbaQ (talk) 22:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I support this merger; the pattern for articles on crimes where both perpetrator and victim are notable for one event only is to consolidate the information in an article about the event, See also WP:N/CA ("Criminal Acts") and WP:CRIME. Swanny18 (talk) 00:42, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support per User:Swanny18. We do not have biographical articles for Michael Skakel (who killed Martha Moxley in 1975), David Alan Westerfield (who killed Danielle Van Dam in 2002), Jodi Arias (convicted of killing Travis Alexander in 2008), Mark Hacking (who killed his wife Lori in 2004), Jules Mikus (who killed Teresa Cormack in 1987), etc. so what makes this woman different from any other murderer? The Legendary Ranger (talk) 22:42, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Federal jurisdiction

Coverage of the recent execution of the perpetrator in this case has highlighted that the penalty was carried out by the federal government. But it's not entirely clearly to me why this was prosecuted by the federal government in the first place, instead of by the state of Missouri. Is it because Montgomery lived over the border in Kansas, and took the baby there after the murder? Is it the crossing of a state line with a captive that brings a crime like this under federal jurisdiction? Beorhtwulf (talk) 15:08, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that murder-kidnap is a federal crime. Ceoil (talk) 15:14, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. That article suggests the federal involvement comes about when (among other possibilities) state lines are crossed, not that murder-kidnap per se is a federal crime. Here is the law the article links to: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1201 Beorhtwulf (talk) 16:05, 13 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Without having read too far into it (not from the US), I got the impression that it was "potential for" state line crossing. Also, when murder arises from another serious crime, it then is sometimes classed as federal (afaik). Ceoil (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of speculation

I’m sure I’ll be sorry I asked, but as a matter of policy what is the justification for including unverified speculation in the Murder_of_Bobbie_Jo_Stinnett#Perpetrator section? Innisfree987 (talk) 02:53, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should it be “Killing of Bobbie Jo Stinnett“?

This may be semantics but Montgomery was never convicted of murder specifically, she was convicted of “kidnapping resulting in death”. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), a page should only be titled “Murder of” if there’s a murder conviction. Should the article be renamed to fit these conventions? TheXuitts (talk) 01:48, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The flowchart is only to be used when there is no clear WP:COMMONNAME. Editors should only resort to this flowchart when such efforts fail or a consensus cannot be reached on what the COMMONNAME is from among the reliable secondary sources. The COMMONNAME in this case is clearly "Murder." Some1 (talk) 02:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ah alright, thank you for the clarification TheXuitts (talk) 05:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Conflation of trial testimony with private assessments

There are some factual and clarity issues in the trial section of this article, and possibly the Perpetrator section as well. It seems to stem from using op eds like this one, which uncritically presents the claims of Montgomery's family, those of her appeal lawyers, and those of private individuals uninvolved in the investigation or trial, made years after the trial, as if they constituted exculpatory evidence that was omitted from trial. Claims from these articles are being misleadingly included in the section on the trial as if they played or ought to have played a role in the trial. It's very confusing. I didn't put it together until I had spent 45 minutes reading the sources, so I can only imagine what most people skimming this page are going to think. Aminomancer (talk) 10:00, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'll go through the sources now -- Python Drink (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]