Talk:Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: KJP1 (talk · contribs) 14:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Pleased to pick this up. I'll complete within seven days and will let you know when I do. KJP1 (talk) 14:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Quick fail criteria assessment

1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.

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2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.

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3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.

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4. The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.

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5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.

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Articles passes quick-fail assessment. Main review to follow.

Main review

1. It is reasonably well written.

a (prose):

The prose standard is high and I'll pass on this. But On Hold for the present, as some suggestions/thoughts for the nominator below.

Lead

• "He served on the council of his local county" - might be clearer to say this was in Scotland. - Done
• "he stood as a candidate for the Liberal Unionist Party party for the area of Cardiff, Cowbridge and Llantrisant" - you've got a double "party." - Done
• "He served on the council of his local county but, with his family having close ties to the city of Cardiff in Wales, he stood as a candidate for the Liberal Unionist Party party for the area of Cardiff, Cowbridge and Llantrisant, initially losing in January 1910 before winning the seat in a second election held in December 1910 following a hung parliament." - a looooong sentence. Perhaps, "He served on the council of his local county but, his family having close connections to the city of Cardiff in Wales, he fought and lost the January 1910 election there as a Liberal Unionist candidate. The resulting hung parliament led to a second election in December 1910, in which Crichton-Stuart won the seat." - Done
• "In 1912, he assumed control of the 6th battalion" - do you "take command" of military formations, rather than "assume control" of them? - Done
• "After eleven months spent on the frontlines" - should "frontlines" be singular? - Done
• "he was shot in the head and killed in action" - well, it certainly wasn't as a result of inaction! Is the "in action" redundant? - Done
• "offered to be a guarantor for the football club's rental agreement of the land where it was built." - perhaps, "offered to act as a guarantor for the club's rental of the site." - Done

Early life

• "a direct descendant of the House of Stuart" - not a prose point, but they were illegitimate. Worth mentioning? - Done
• "accompanying his father on visits to Bute docks as a child" - is the "as a child" necessary, or supported by the cite? That is dated 1904, by which time Ninian was 21 and his father was dead. - Done

Marriage, philanthropy & political career

• "decided to enter into a career in politics in order to be closer to his wife and manage his family's estate" - a bit clunky? Perhaps, "decided to enter politics to be closer to his wife and to manage his family's estate". - Done
• "Crichton-Stuart first entered politics in his native Scotland, serving on Fife County Council" - he's just entered politics in the line above. Perhaps, "Crichton-Stuart first served on Fife County Council in his native Scotland." - Done
• "He was later named as part of a committee appointed by the president of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries to study the rights of tenant farmers when their land was sold or their landlords deceased" - perhaps, "He was later named as a member of a committee appointed by the president of the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries to study the rights of tenant farmers when their land was sold or their landlords died". - Done
• "his great uncle John Crichton-Stuart, 2nd Marquess of Bute" - another non-prose point but wasn't Bute 2 his grandfather, not his great uncle? And I think we'd need a cite, as I'm not sure about it. Bute 2 inherited his marquessate aged about 21 in 1814, on the death of his grandfather. Was he really an MP? I can't see it in Davies, Cardiff and the Marquesses of Bute but I might have overlooked it. It's also not mentioned in his Wiki article. Done, link was to the wrong person
• "moving into Fenylan Court which had previously been the residence of William Tatem, 1st Baron Glanely" - this clause appears in both the third and the fourth para.s - Removed second mention
• "Lord Ninian's campaign for election was based on a reform of the poor law" - was there only one bit he wanted to change? Suggest dropping the "a". - Done
• "The crowd gathered outside the Angel Hotel" - you can link the Angel. - Done
• "their carriage was pulled by hand by around 60 volunteers" - what else might they have used? Can probably drop "by hand". - Done
• "where Crichton-Stuart hook hands with" - "shook". - Done
• "numerous people and gave a short speech before they continued to the station" - perhaps "before continuing to the station", otherwise one's unsure as to whether we're talking about Lord and Lady C-S or the numerous people. - Done
• "On the polling day, Lord Ninian's son caught a chill from driving in a car around Cardiff that he later died from at the age of 2 and he was buried near Falkland Palace in Fife." - slightly clunky? Perhaps, "On the polling day, Lord Ninian's son caught a chill while being driven around Cardiff and later died. He was buried near Falkland Palace in Fife." - Done
• "following a hug parliament" - sounds nice, but surely "hung"? - Done
• "in which Crichton-Stuart was successful in winning the seat in the from Liberal candidate Clarendon Hyde, winning with a majority of 299 votes, a turnaround of 1,800 votes in the space of ten months" - you've got four "in"s and two "winning"s in that clause. Perhaps, "in which Crichton-Stuart was successful, taking the seat from the Liberal candidate Clarendon Hyde with a majority of 299 votes, a turnaround of 1,800 votes in the space of ten months". - Done

First World War and death

• "On 9 March 1911, Crichton-Stuart was commissioned as a lieutenant-colonel 1912" - what's the "1912" doing there? - Done
• "They were an experienced unit" - perhaps, "It was an experienced unit"? - Done
• "choose the battalion colours of scarlet, silver and green.[4] to South Wales.." - what's the "to South Wales" doing? - Done
• "who was eager to join the fighting. In July 1915, they were transferred to the fighting - perhaps, "to the front", to avoid repetition? - Done
• "Prior to the battle, the 6th had not selpt for two days" - typo. - Done
• "a counter-attack to retake the trenches and the two Welsh battalions that were holding the trenches" - replace 2nd of "the trenches" with "them" to lose the repetition? - Done
• "to reach the other units but prolonged attacks from three sides left them short of ammunition" - "left the unit", as it is Ninian's unit that is short of supplies, not the others? - Done
• "died at the age of 32, becoming the only serving Welsh MP to be killed during the conflict" - not sure the "becoming" is necessary? - Done
• "The coffin was held in the church vault until spring 1918 in the hope of being returned to Britain" - perhaps, "with the intention of returning it to Britain"? - Done
• "Crichton-Stuart had served for eleven months of the frontlines" - "on the frontline"? - Done
• "his widow Ismay remarried on 30 April 1917 Captain Archibald Henry Maule Ramsay" - this reads oddly? At least it needs a "to". - Done
• "Ramsay and his wife had four sons together" - and more apart? Suggest dropping the "together". - Done

Legacy

• "Lord Ninian is one of 19 MPs" - he's mostly Crichton-Stuart and it needs to be consistent. - Done
• "which includes a short biographical account of the life and death of Crichton-Stuart" - perhaps, "which includes a short biographical account of his life and death". - Done
• "Gorsedd Gardnes" - "Gorsedd Gardens", and you could sectionally link it but I can't find the symbol. - Done
• "work was abandoned following his death" - I think it needs saying it's C-S's death that brought work to an end, not his son's. - Done

Family

• "Crichton-Stuart and his wife Ismay had four children together" - see above. And below. - Done
• "and had issue, one daughter with him" - all the "had issue"s, and indeed the issue seem a bit unnecessary to me. Do we need them unto the nth generation? - Removed the majority of issue but left two with wikilinks

OK - that's done with the prose. The rest will have to wait a bit. One quick suggestion. With longer articles, I find pasting it all into Word and running spellcheck, and then making the highlighted amendments back on Wiki can be useful.

b (MoS):

The article appears MoS-compliant, although this isn't my greatest strength. I've an observation re. layout, but this isn't a reason not to Pass.

• I find the layout of the images at the bottom rather messy. The 1910 portrait sits over the bullets for Lord N's issue, and directly opposite the chapel image, squeezing the text. Does the portrait add anything we don't get from the earlier 1910 image? - Removed

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

a (references):

The references look fine and properly cited. I've checked all I can check and, almost all, support the corresponding statements in the text. A few points, but nothing to stop passing.

• Ref.7 - two things. I can't see this supporting the claim that he learnt Welsh. Also, this looks like a blog, Grangetown at War. I think it's ok for here, but you might struggle at FAC to defend it as RS. - The page is attributed to his granddaughter and does mention that he learnt Welsh
• Ref.8 - Is it The Cardiff Times rather than Tue Cardiff Times? - Done
• The newspapers obviously can't be checked unless one has access, which I don't. But they're fully cited and I'm working on the assumption they support the article, as the checkable ones do. The articles are available HERE but there seems to be no way to directly link them which is why they are only cited.
• Ref.34 - I found it impossible to open Fife Today, on any of the four machines I tried! An alternative reference if you want it is The Buildings of Scotland: Fife, John Gifford, Penguin, London UK, 1992, ISBN 0-14-071077-9, p=225, Crichton-Stuart Memorial Chapel, "a roofless shell begun in 1912 but never finished". Strange, the link works fine for me. I've added the suggested ref anyway to improve referencing
• On a point of accuracy - see above - are the Crichton-Stuart Cardiff MPs, Lord Patrick Crichton-Stuart or James Crichton-Stuart? Not sure which was his uncle. Fixed, corrected link to Patrick

b (citations to reliable sources):

Excepting my one concern on Ref. 7, the sources are fine.

c (OR):

I've found no evidence of original research.

d (No evidence of plagiarism or copyright violations):

The Copyvio detector's giving me 48%, mainly around Ref. 4, but it's the Lord N quote about giving his life, and the long titles, "lieutenant-colonel of the 6th battalion in the Welch Regiment". I'm satisfied all the sources are appropriately paraphrased.

3. It is broad in its scope.

a (major aspects):

The article covers all the major aspects of Lord N's, tragically short, life very well.

b (focused):

It does not stray into inappropriate diversions.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy: The article is balanced and neutral.

5. It is stable: The article is stable.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):

The images all appear properly tagged and usable. I'm a bit unsure as to Public Domain over 70 years old, which the portraits are, but it's not my forte and Commons seems happy.

b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Images are appropriately captioned.

7. Overall:

Pass/Fail:

I've begun fixing the points listed, lead section done so far. I'll get round to the rest as soon as possible. Kosack (talk) 19:42, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

@KJP1: Thanks for the review, I've made all of the changes listed above. Kosack (talk) 21:11, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

@Kosack: That was quick! Thanks for responding so promptly and I'm very pleased to Pass. Many congrat.s. KJP1 (talk) 07:09, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 21 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn by DrVogel. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 09:55, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

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Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart → Ninian Crichton-Stuart (soldier) – I think it would be a tidier way to distinguish it from Ninian Crichton Stuart Dr. Vogel (talk) 08:33, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Listing this as simply soldier seems a bit strange given that he was a Lord and member of Parliament. Being a soldier was probably the more minor of his roles. Is the current Crichton Stuart actually the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC anyway? Kosack (talk) 14:56, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Actually I do have that same concern as well. Particularly because this one seems more "primary-ish" than the current one. Do you think that there should be a disambiguation page, or that this one should be the primary topic instead of the current one? Dr. Vogel (talk) 16:41, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose. I have moved Ninian Crichton Stuart to Ninian Stuart, his common name. This article follows standard naming conventions for sons of marquesses. See WP:NCPEER #5. Agree that Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart is the primary redirect for Ninian Crichton Stuart. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:17, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Now that you've made that move, it is a lot tidier already. I just wanted it to be tidier, so I am happy to leave it as it is now.

What do you reckon about Ninian Crichton Stuart and Ninian Crichton-Stuart? As it stands now, they're redirects, but I think one of them should become a disambiguation page. Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Per WP:TWODABS I think they should both redirect to Lord Ninian Crichton-Stuart. Clear primary redirect. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:33, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that sounds reasonable. I've changed the target of the 2 redirects, added a hatnote in the article about the primary topic, and withdrawn my original proposal. Dr. Vogel (talk) 12:42, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Edit: how do I mark my original proposal as withdrawn so that bots don't keep adding a notice in the article? Thanks! Dr. Vogel (talk) 12:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.