Talk:Robert Herbert

This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

University of Oxford Low‑importance

	University of Oxford portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Politics of the United Kingdom Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Politics of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Politics of the United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject Politics of the United KingdomPolitics of the United Kingdom

Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

More information:
/
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article has been automatically rated by a bot or other tool because one or more other projects use this class. Please ensure the assessment is correct before removing the `\|auto=` parameter.

Australia: Brisbane / Queensland / History / Politics Low‑importance

	Australia portal Robert Herbert is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Brisbane task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Queensland (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian history.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian politics (assessed as High-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Queensland.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

LGBTQ+ studies

This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies

"some historians conclude that he was likely gay"

I think "some historians conclude that he was likely gay" is about as vague as it gets. The source added says "some historians have concluded he was likely gay" which is ... exactly the same vague thing. I presume "gay" here is intended to mean homosexual and not "gay" as that word would have been understood in Herbert's time. At the very least we need to name some repuable historians who have concluded Herbert was homosexual and cite their works and provide whatever evidence on which they have based their conclusions (e.g. initimate letters, memoirs, opinions of close family/friends). I think we need more than "he never married but he shared a house with a man who later married" as evidence (I am sure we could all name plenty of not-gay men who would fit that profile). If there is no evidence, then I think we should remove any discussion of his sexuality or if the speculation comes from a reputable historian, downgrade it to "Despite speculation by [whoever] that he was a homosexual [with citations], no evidence has been presented as to his sexuality". Today, some people believe Barack Obama is Islamic and that he was not born in the USA, but neither of these speculations is discussed in Barack Obama because there is a lack of evidence from reliable sources. Kerry (talk) 07:34, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's a reasonably widely reported story, and I think it belongs in the article, although the wording could be better than what is there now. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] The Drover's Wife (talk) 12:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But the first two merely pose the question, the third says the two men had a "friendship" (complete with the quote marks), the 4th and 5th says it is a speculation by "various/some researchers" (unnamed). All of these appear to be recent works speculating over a house-sharing 150 years ago. Nobody's putting up evidence and nobody seems to be "concluding" anything merely "speculating" because they know they don't have the evidence. I don't care if he is gay or not; it's a more interesting story if he was, but I don't see the difference between this and "Obama is Islamic" (another interesting story) except that Obama's article is protected by the higher BLP standard. If the Herbert article was subject to BLP, would we be adding it? Kerry (talk) 07:48, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

These are valid points as well. I'm actually not terribly fussed either way. The Drover's Wife (talk) 08:02, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Until something more concrete is confirmed by someone (which is unlikely) its too speculative and therefore doesn't belong. I would remove the first sentence in the second paragraph of the Personal life section and leave the rest as is. - Shiftchange (talk) 08:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]