Talk:Robert Sherman (music critic)

In progress article

I am currently creating a more robust article for this page. alifabeta (talk) 15:08, 15 February 2012 (UTC) alifabeta (talk) 17:08, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Job titles at WQXR

The bio for Robert Sherman at the WQXR website says "Robert Sherman, award-winning broadcaster and writer, recently celebrated his 56th anniversary with WQXR. Formerly Program Director and later Senior Consultant, he continues to produce and host The McGraw-Hill Companies' Young Artists Showcase..."

It mentions nothing about Sherman serving as Music Director. The Wikipedia article says "Robert Sherman began his broadcasting career at radio station WQXR in New York at first as both the Music Director and Program Manager, and later Senior Consultant."

Did he serve as both Music Director and Program Director at the radio station? Did he hold both positions at the same time? Did he assume both positions at the same time? Did he relinquish the Music Director position previously before continuing as Program Director? BioJS (talk) 03:00, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

References

Bob Sherman

Bob Sherman retired yesterday, January 29, 2023, with the airing of his final “Woody’s Children” episode on WFUV in New York. FINN201 (talk) 19:43, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

@FINN201, if you can find a reference supporting your statement, please add it to the article. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 03:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

{{citations needed}} and date format

@Revirvlkodlaku: The History record is in DMY format, and I personally don't see that putting the Month in front of the Day makes the Date easier to read, although on checking, I now see that many American articles do indeed use this, I think, cumbersome format, that necessitates a comma to separate the Day number from the Year number. Would American readers really have difficulty understanding the dates in DMY format? That being the case, why aren't all the citations now in the MD,Y format?

My other question is, why did you think Sherman's birth day and month was likely to be challenged, such that it needed to have its own citation? The year wasn't, presumably because only the year was given out in the citations until recently. I have read hundreds of Wikipedia articles, and this is the first time I have seen a call for proof of a month and a day for a date of birth for no specified reason. It would be rare to find something so specific in news coverage of even the most notable of subjects, short of a birth certificate, which would amount to WP:OR anyway. {{citations needed}} should be used for controversial or exceptional claims. As per WP:WHEN#When a source is needed and WP:WHEN#When a source or citation may not be needed, not every single contribution needs its own citation, if is widely known, or immaterial. Would Sherman be less notable if he had been born in, say, August, or on say, the 24th and not the 23rd of July? Chrisdevelop (talk) 00:26, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop, date formats are a convention in many countries, not least the US, so while I personally agree with you that DMY makes more sense, as does the metric system, by the way, Americans (and Canadians) aren't used to it, and that's that. It is also convention on Wikipedia, as far as I know, to use the date format that makes most sense based on the topic of each page.

As for your second question—I'm not sure what kind of experience you have on Wikipedia, but it has been mine that a person's date of birth should not be included unless it is referenced. To suggest otherwise is slightly mind-boggling to me, within the context of Wikipedia and the emphasis it places on citing facts. In fact, I find your blase attitude regarding the importance of credible referencing somewhat disturbing. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 04:58, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku That is uncalled for. Most of my contributions to Wikipedia consist of researching and adding citations when called for. However, a great many {{citations needed}} flags appear where I believe the editors who flagged them could simply have done the work themselves, instead of making it someone else's problem. Moreover I provided the reference for Sherman’s birth date, so I do not consider my “attitude” to be “blasé” at all. Did you read WP:WHEN#When a source is needed and WP:WHEN#When a source or citation may not be needed? Chrisdevelop (talk) 08:30, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop, I haven't seen your other work, but thank you for clarifying.

Whether or not an editor "could have done the work themselves" is purely speculative. How can one ever know what another editor could have done instead of leaving a tag? Each editor's focus is different: some simply proofread without looking for supporting references, others fill in bare references, etc. These individual, and often small, contributions jointly improve the entire project, and I don't think it's appropriate to make pronouncements about what another editor could or should have done.

If you provided a credible reference for Sherman's birth, then it's fine, and the tag doesn't need to be there. In fact, I just checked, and there isn't one, so I'm not sure what you're talking about...

I did glance at the links you included in your previous comment. Why? Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku It is important when you revert an entire contribution of another editor to check for unintended consequences. In this instance, you didn’t check that all the references’ dates changed to the MDY format, viz. the citation I provided for the birth date, which remains in (DMY) format. The tag is not there any more because I removed it after adding the citation, and by now, if this was going to be challenged, it would have been as there are several editors subscribed to this article. Chrisdevelop (talk) 16:22, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop, I think you're possibly making a bigger deal of this than is necessary. Having a citation in dmy format isn't an unintended consequence, it sometimes happens, and it's a simple fix—most people don't really care anyway.

As for the tag and it being challenged... if it's referenced, why would anyone challenge it?! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

@Revirvlkodlaku Before I revert an edit, I check to see whether there are components of the previous edit that should remain in the article. That was what I meant by “unintended consequences”, since the previous edit in this example may have included more than amendments to the date format, and a reversion undoes everything the previous contribution has effectuated. Since the purpose of your reversion of my edit was to place the article in MDY format, I would have expected you’d check the consequences didn’t also revert other components of my contribution, yet you left the very citation this whole contribution was about, to provide a citation verifying the subject’s Day and Month of birth, in DMY format. However, now you’re saying “most people don’t really care anyway,” which makes me wonder what the point of all this typing has been. So far as challenges go, not all editors are known to WP:AGF. Chrisdevelop (talk) 08:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop, I also check before making a revert. Sometimes I miss things though. What can I say, I'm only human.

As for my comment about most people not caring, all I meant to suggest is that it's not as big of a deal as you seemed to have been making of it. Anyway, it seems settled now, and hopefully there are no hard feelings between us :) Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Removal of marriage details

@Revirvlkodlaku In this edit, you removed the following on the grounds that it was not supported by the NYT citation:

He was married twice. His first marriage to Ruth Gershuni ended in divorce. His subsequent marriage to Veronica Bravo lasted until her death in 2012. His two sons and his partner survive him.

However, in the cited NYT article, it states: "In addition to his son Steve, a performing arts photographer, Mr. Sherman is survived by his partner, Jill Bloom; another son, Peter; and four grandchildren. His marriage to Ruth Gershuni ended in divorce; his marriage to Veronica Bravo ended with her death in 2012." How does this not support the contribution? Chrisdevelop (talk) 19:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

@Chrisdevelop, ah yes, you are correct, I totally missed that (truth be told, I rapidly skimmed the article rather than reading it word for word). I will fix my mistake shortly. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 02:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Included Archive Section

Ciao Editors: I've included an Archive Section with a link to the NYPR Archive Collection (New York Public Radio Archive) of broadcasts from 1974-1985 of interviews by Robert Sherman (music critic) with literally dozens of leading figures from the performing arts including: [[Julius Rudel],Andre Segovia, Victor Borge, James Levine, Erich Leinsdorf, Zubin Mehta and dozens of others. I hope it helps. Ciao.160.72.81.86 (talk) 16:37, 29 January 2024 (UTC)GCL