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Talk:Sayano-Shushenskaya Dam

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Coordinates

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Are coordinates right? This place is some 100 kilometers away from the place where Sayano-Shushenskaya HPS is situated on GoogleMaps and Wikimapia satellite maps. Is this the problem of maps or coordinates are false? Oleg Rus (talk) 11:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Probably coordinates are not correct. You are welcome to ix this problem. Beagel (talk) 05:21, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Hope, now they are correct. Oleg Rus (talk) 06:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fourth or fifth largest?

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The article lead states the facility is the fifth-largest hydro-electric plant in the world but the body of the article states that it is the fourth-largest. Which is correct? Wkharrisjr (talk) 12:19, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It was the fourth largest in 2007 as was stated in the body, but after commissioning of the Three Gorges Dam, it is the fifth largest. Beagel (talk) 18:30, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2009 accident

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Very large human losses possible

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Hungarian media report some three hundred (300) workers were in the generator room during the accident, due to large scale refurbishment activity. There may be more casaulties and missing people beyond the number russian officials are currently quoting (usually 64). 91.83.7.159 (talk) 11:57, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, but don't bury them until the bodies are found. Remember, people are presumed alive unless death is proven. We're talking about real people whose full identities have been published [1]NVO (talk) 12:24, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"station constructions dangerously changed"

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What's this supposed to mean? The phrase was lifted verbatim from the quoted source, and may have been auto-translated from Russian, or translated by someone with an inadedequate command of idiomatic English. Translation help by someone with an engineering background and fluent in Russian, with access to the original Russian-language source would be appreciated. —QuicksilverT @ 18:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Here's Kommersant version as of April 11, 1998 [2] under heading "Sayano-Shushenskaya stations is rocking" [or "... tumbling"] Own translation:

The last forecast by Ministry of Emergencies called SSS a "potentially dangerous object" [site]. Structural elements of the dam has suffered dangerous changes. Consequences of breaching the dam may be catastrophic especially for Krasnoyarsk. Everyone accepts that the dam is unhealthy; they differ in evaluating extent of risk and current state of SSS. RAO UES, owner of the station, asserts full control over the situation and considers that only current repairs are necessary. Independent professionals, on the contrary, speak about irreversible changes to the dam that threaten it with destruction.
Professionals and officials involved in construction and maintenance of hydro powerplants in the USSR are well aware what the common citizens don't know: design of SSS, "project of the century", suffered from engineering errors. Designers miscalculated consequences of hydraulic shock, and during the first spring flood drain in 1968 the bottom of the well under the dam [sic; further they describe it as a 200 meter tall spillway glory hole] was destroyed.
Former section head at KB Gidrostal Pavel Khlopenko described that destruction "It was a catastrophe. Over 30,000 cubic meter of structural elements and rock base were destroyed, alhtough the flood was twice below design specifications. Cavities and trenches [sic] near the base of the dam compromised its soundness and provided momentum that deformed the dam holding collossal water pressure. According to probability theory, heavier floods are probable; these will destroy the dam. It's an imminent menace to Krasnoyarsk".

  • Further the article describes how, according to Khlopenko, an Arch-gravity dam lost its gravity properties and became purely an arch structure and how its former Soviet owners fixed the spillway well and the body of the dam. Then it centers on RAO UES and their attitudes - they did not hide the problems, they monitored the dam behavior but considered the spillway well to be a major risk.
  • Now hear this: any business-related article from 1998 Russia is not reliable. The first thing that springs to mind is who paid for it? NVO (talk) 19:39, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

water hammer

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In this paper, Sayano Shushenskaya accident – presenting a possible direct cause, International Water Power & Dam Construction, 2010-12-22, the auther suggests that a water column separation in the draft tubes of the destroyed units happened because the wicket gates were closed to fast. The big cavitation bubble caused the downstream water to accelerate back and slammed against the turbine from below, tearing the securing bolts apart and letting the generator jump several meters high. --Gunnar (talk) 20:11, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The incident needs its own article

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The incident seems to be becoming a more and more important story now, especially with the possible involvement of Chechen terrorists. I think we should create a separate article for this, maybe under the name 2009 Sayano–Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station incident. Offliner (talk) 11:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that the accident deserves its own article. Beagel (talk) 05:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Would you like to work together on creating one? After that we could probably try and spiff up the article about the plant itself. --Gimlei (talk to me) 15:09, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Created 2009 Sayano–Shushenskaya hydroelectric power station accident. I guess it's best to name it "accident" because the Chechen terrorist claims are not taken seriously at the moment. Offliner (talk) 15:45, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Named after Neporozhniy?

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"The power plant is named after the Soviet-time Minister of Energy and Electrification Petr Neporozhniy." Is this true? It's in the opening paragraph, but how is it named after him if his name is not in the title at all? 72.152.229.211 (talk) 05:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Correct, the name of legal entity in English per RusHydro annual report [3] is "OJSC [Open Joint-Stock Society] P. S. Neporozhny Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP [hydro power plant]". NVO (talk) 06:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fully operational?

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Hi. I tried going through the article quickly, but was unable to find the answer; is the power station currently fully operational again? If not, how many units has fully resumed operations? Rehman(+) 11:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, only units 4, 5 and 6 are operational.[4] Beagel (talk) 12:31, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Thanks. I wondering if this plant will ever reach back to 6,400 MW to make it back to the Top 10 Largest list; because this website still lists it as such. The "No. 3 will be put into operation before the end of this year, after that, the maximum operating capacity of the Sayano-Shushenskaya HPP will stand at 2,560 MW" from the link you provided makes me feel like it will never reach that capacity... Rehman(+) 22:55, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Full restoration is planned by 2014, as some of the generators (2, 7?) had been destroyed beyond repair by either the initial water hammer or the subsequent runaway spinup and crash due to the loss of load (after the transformers short-circuited and burned out). In the process, they are planning to replace all turbines and generators by newer more reliable models, and this includes the generators already repaired. Only those generators are/will be repaired where it's relatively easy to do so, to meet the instantaneous power generating needs as well as take the water load off the poorly designed main spillway and thus prevent further deterioration of the dam. I do not recall if the new generators will equal the old ones in power output, however. 71.240.18.200 (talk) 11:42, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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