Talk:Sesame Street

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Featured article Sesame Street is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophy This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 21, 2006.

Episode page[edit]

I was wondering why we don't have a page for this show's episodes and the sub-pages for its seasons. Does anyone have any comment on that? Rtkat3 (Rtkat3) 9:16, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm serious when I ask this, Rtkat3: Are you kidding? Do you have any idea what that would entail? 42 seasons, over 4,000 episodes--where in the world are the references for that? And anyway, it's already been done, and well, over at Muppet Wiki. A great resource but not Wikipedia, which has higher standards for reliability. Personally, I don't it's necessary to replicate what's already been done, and Sesame Street should be represented differently over here, as a summary of the studies and literature about The Show. But that's just my opinion, so if someone else wants to tackle that monster, feel free. It's just not gonna be me; I have other monsters to tackle, and they ain't red and furry and cute! ;) -- — Preceding unsigned comment added by figureskatingfan (talkcontribs)
I'm just stating that the episodes for this show should have an episode guide with subpages like they did for the seasons of The Simpsons and Saturday Night Live. Maybe someone can help us on that someday. Rtkat3 (talk) 10:58, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I personally feel that only episodes that have received extensive press coverage or been singled out in books (but not the random episodes in the 40th anniversary volume) are worthwhile to have on here. Check out "Snuffy's Parents Get a Divorce" for an unaired example. But just even the fact that we simply don't know the plots of hundreds if not thousands of the episodes, it's not worth it doing a complete episode guide. That, and the fact early street scenes were often just random, unrelated happenings. It was really in the 1980s that finally all episodes had continuous street scenes.
One difference between SS and SNL or Simpsons, the latter two are shown in syndication. Sesame episodes are retired after three years, on average. -- Zanimum (talk) 18:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
I didn't know about the Snuffy divorce article, but it looks like it at least has the potential to be improved. Its references cursory look pretty good. Consequently, I'm watchlisting it with the intention of eventually improving it. That brings up a good point, though: it may be appropriate to create articles about specific episodes like this one, episodes like the one about Mr. Hooper's death, which is extensively discussed in Street Gang and has been written about inthe press a great deal, and the episodes after 9-11, which got a lot of attention in the press. Something to think about, especially if anyone's interested in creating new SS articles. See, that's what discussion is for, to take an idea that's initially discounted and expand it to some great and workable ideas to improve Sesame Street in the project. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:57, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
(One side note, I think there was an episode guide page years ago, and it was deleted shortly after Muppet Wiki was created. Just as figureskatingfan was predicting, it became unwieldly, lacked sources, and lacked relevance. -- Zanimum (talk) 16:19, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
As episodes guides usually do...which is why I don't like em, as a rule. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:11, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
I understand why there's no episode list, but can't there at least be a list of notable episodes? I can't find any sort of disambiguation of those episodes, and people going to the episode list are most likely looking for notable episodes. If that page is created, it would make a good redirect for List of Sesame Street episodes. Ndm13 (talk) 20:50, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
@Ndm13: I've actually been working on improving articles about notable episodes; for example, Mr. Hooper has a long section about his death and there's Snuffy's Parents Get a Divorce, which is notable in the fact that it was never aired. There's also "Elmo's World". All three are GAs. I think the way to go is to improve individual articles about the more "important" episodes, and perhaps create a category of "Notable Sesame Street episodes". I feel strongly that Wikipedia isn't the place for users to find these episodes; rather, that's the purpose of Muppet Wiki. WP isn't a trivia repository. My goal as the main editor of most of the better WP articles about Sesame Street is for WP to be the place to go for solid, reliable, and even academic information and content about The Show. Listing episodes, even notable ones, is difficult because it's hard to support them with reliable sources. And who decides which episodes are notable? Is the Snuffy-reveal episode notable, and the episode in which Abby Cadabby is introduced not? So many of the episodes are clips that are played over and over again; how would that be handled? My suggestion is to find out what episodes are discussed in the literature, research them, and write high-quality articles about them. For example, I'd like to expand the Mr. Snuffleupagus article and discuss at length the reveal and why it was done, and I'd like to expand Abby's article because she represents the push for more female Muppets. So far, I've been alone in substantially improving these articles; I'd really appreciate the assistance and it'd make this encyclopedia a better place. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:14, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

After all this time and after all the work that's been done on this and similar articles, I didn't think it was possible, but I've actually found a group of sources that have the potential of adding to their comprehensiveness. In 1990, the journal Educational Technology Research and Development devoted an entire issue to research and was written entirely by CTW researchers. See Volume 38, Issue 4, December 1990, which I have access to via my local university library. Eventually, I'd like to go through the issue and see what can gleaned from it. As WP's main editor of articles about Sesame Street, I would like to go on the record stating my opinion that the Workshop should publish an update to the "G" is for Growing book, because there's a need to summarize all the research projects conducted on The Show, especially since it was published in 2001. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 23:28, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Cast longevity[edit]

Given that Bob McGrath and Loretta Long have appeared on the show, as far as I'm aware, for 45 years without interruption, would that be record for longest time playing a single character in a single series in US television? I'm not aware of anyone with a longer track record, not even in soap operas. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 19:25, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Good question. The short answer, at least from me, is I dunno. I wouldn't be surprised if there were mention of McGrath's and Long's accomplishments in the popular press, though. Something one can research. I challenge you, dear anonymous IP, to do just that! ;) Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:17, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
There may very well be sources discussing their long runs, but they are clearly not the "longest time playing a single character in a single series in US television". I don't know who that would be, but I figured a soap opera was a likely place to look. Sure enough: List of longest-serving soap opera actors#Top 10 across all platforms has Helen Wagner (who?) as the same character for 54 years. Lesley Saweard, a UK soaper, has 61 years in so far. (Saweard doesn't have a Wikipedia article, I assume, because WP:ENT requires 2 significant roles in notable productions and the UK press hasn't bother to write anything up.) - SummerPhD (talk) 20:53, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Sesame Street Unpaved (series)[edit]

A repackaging of Sesame Street episodes does not warrant its own article, even if reliable, nontrivial sources exist. Alternate merge/redirect location might be History of Sesame Street#2000s and 2010s. Same rationale for Sesame Street Unpaved, which should be discussed in the greater context of the show. --Animalparty-- (talk) 09:28, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I'd go even further than that, and propose that the Unpaved article be deleted. I don't think that it even warrants a mention in the articles you mention, for the same reasons you cite for merging them. I agree, if every repackaged video were mentioned in this and other SS articles, it would be over-long and full of trivia. The Unpaved series doesn't even have reliable sources to warrant a mention. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:55, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Oppose: It meets Wikipedia's standards for notability, and was counted as a separate series despite being a syndication package. Julian & Juan - From Julian Spencer (talk) 20:34, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
Oppose: The reasons I have might not be significant but I don't think the enormous information of Sesame Street needs to be crammed into one very long article. If this article does not need to be on Wikipedia, then couldn't you at least move it to Muppet Wikia? In Correct (talk) 03:14, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

This article is a disaster![edit]

How come this article is featured? This article contains too much "secondary" information about The Show. Wikipedia articles are supposed to equally balance the amounts of primary, secondary, and tertiary information about their topics that they contain. One of my philosophies as a Wikipedian is that articles are best when they're balanced as far as their content is concerned. And overall, it looks like this article is written for academics interested in learning more about the show: the target audience that Wikipedia articles are supposed to be written for is complete outsiders with NO knowledge of their corresponding topics. See other featured TV articles such as those on Animaniacs, Blue's Clues, and The Simpsons.

In my sandbox, I've hatched up a plan to rewrite this article myself, with the following structure: "Premise: Format, Characters, Setting; Conception and development; Personnel: Performers, Producers and directors; Production: Educational goals, Research, Writing, Music; History: United States, International co-productions; Reception: Ratings, Influence, Awards and honors, Critical reaction; Other media: Merchandise, Home media, Literature, Films, Theme park, Video games" — with 200 to 300 words allotted for each subsection, and of course, with all content sourced, and all sourcing kept as reliable as possible. I want this page to be overhauled into something much more logically designed than it appears to be right now, because that is what I value in encyclopedic entries. -- SethAllen623 (talk) 04:04, March 25, 2015 (UTC)

Disaster? Please. I'm sure there are other ways to express your opinions about this article, which has been featured since 2011. The reviewers at the time certainly thought that it fulfilled the featured article criteria, and it's been relatively stable, which is quite an accomplishment, since most articles about children's TV tend to be heavily vandalized. (I've always thought that this article should at least be semi-protected, but the admins obviously disagree.) Your opinions about what an article should be notwithstanding, we need to follow established WP policies, and this article does. You're correct that articles should be well-balanced; the FA criteria calls that "comprehensive" (see point 1b). However, you're incorrect about primary, secondary, and tertiary sources. WP policy (see WP:PSTS) states: "Wikipedia articles should be based on reliable, published secondary sources and, to a lesser extent, on tertiary sources and primary sources. Secondary or tertiary sources are needed to establish the topic's notability and to avoid novel interpretations of primary sources. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than to an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors."
The structure, BTW, follows the structure of similar articles about children's TV. Actually, the structure of this article, with exceptions based upon specific aspects of the shows like research (an important aspect of Sesame Street, according to most of the sources out there), is based upon Blue's Clues, another article I researched and brought to FA. This article's structure was designed by consensus.
A complete overhaul and a rewrite of this article is unnecessary. If you wish to make any changes, please continue to follow another policy, WP:TALK, and discuss what you want to change before you change it. If any substantial changes are made, it will no longer be a FA. If you like, you can submit it to FA review, and see if other reviewers agree with your estimation of how much of a disaster it is. I suspect that they will not. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 04:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
I have to agree with Christine on this. Of course there is room for improvement for every article and I suppose SethAllen could cite WP:BOLD in reply to the comments above, but before rewriting an article that has passed Wikipedia's often-notorious muster, I do recommend the user seek consensus. If any revisions are made, might I suggest a section on "adult-oriented crossovers"? Over the last 10 years Sesame Street's producers, recognizing that the show has a large fanbase of adults who remember it as children and now have children (and in some cases, even grandchildren) now watching it, have increasingly released promotional materials aimed at adults. Examples include the DVD sets of early episodes, online-distributed parodies of adult shows like Game of Thrones, and events such as Cookie Monster's several appearances on Saturday Night Live, the most recent airing just last night (April 11, 2015), and in 2010 his plea to host SNL even went viral. 68.146.52.234 (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
IP, if you can find any source that talks about the trend you describe, by all means include it. I look at it differently, though; the viral videos and Muppet appearances on SNL are more about the Workshop's attempts to use social media more effectively. They've always been really good at promoting the show in this way--figuring out what popular culture wants/demands, and providing it. It's nothing new; what makes it new is the use of more up-to-date techniques. Sesame Street has always parodied popular culture, and these days, they're what goes viral. However, if we were to list every instance in the past 50 years of what you're talking about, this list would be WP:FANCRUFT and too long. We need to look out for commentary about the concept behind the viral videos and appearances on SNL. I haven't seen any, but it's definitely something someone needs to research. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I really don't see anything wrong with this article. It explains the show to people who are reading an article about a TV show, not six-year-olds who want to watch Sesame Street. Also, this has many different sub-articles, so if someone wants to read further, they can see Category:Sesame Street. And regarding the statement "And overall, it looks like this article is written for academics interested in learning more about the show: the target audience that Wikipedia articles are supposed to be written for is complete outsiders with NO knowledge of their corresponding topics.", I really don't think people would not know about Sesame Street... Epic Genius (talk) 21:17, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

"Kermit The Frog is a paedophile"?[edit]

I believe this article has a problem... begins with the statement "Kermit The Frog is a paedophile" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.32.167.5 (talk) 12:09, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting that. That was vandalism, which I reverted. —Bruce1eetalk 12:12, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

"renamed in June 5, 2000"[edit]

The following segment of a statement ("renamed in June 5, 2000") is grammatically incorrect as when it concerns dates, specific day(s) are preceded by "on" instead of "in" the latter would be used for a term of time such as a month and year. Someone needs to change it on this protected article.Srednaus Lenoroc (talk) 09:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Took out the specific date, leaving just "in June 2000". Firstly, the exact date is not supported by the source. Secondly, that level of detail, even if it could be verified, isn't needed. Whoever added that date didn't fix the grammar at the time. Thanks for spotting it. oknazevad (talk) 16:26, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2017 (regarding Julia)[edit]

I am requesting to replace the following material in the section "History":

In April 2017, Sesame Street will introduce a new puppet called Julia with Autism to the show, and will be voiced by Stacey Gordon, who started Puppet Pie and has a son on the autism spectrum.

with this:

On April 10, 2017, Sesame Street introduced a new puppet called Julia with autism to the show, who is voiced by Stacey Gordon (who started Puppet Pie and has a son on the autism spectrum).

-- 2601:602:101:72D3:9962:61D9:8E89:5A74 (talk) 13:38, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Not done for now: When you say "On April 10, 2017", it is still in the future so, the sentence should be future tense right? or am I still living in the past.? Anyhow you need to provide a source to support the date. regards, DRAGON BOOSTER 14:58, 2 June 2017 (UTC)