Talk:Shovel Knight

Not a world wide release

Australia has not seen the release of Shovel Knight on the Nintendo eShop as of writing this post, and it is currently the 30th June. 14.202.44.49 (talk) 11:27, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Plague Knight's plot

Oh God, this thing is so huge and so undue. I'm thinking about removing it entirely and basically sum it up as the plot of Plague of Shadows doesn't show any notability other than "Plague Knight needs to fight all other knights in order to collect ingredients for his powerful potion." I haven't finished the game yet and would prefer not to read the section, for spoiler reasons, but it doesn't include any sources and I haven't seen the story being discussed in detail anywhere yet. It seems to be entirely original research, shall I remove it? ~Mable (chat) 09:13, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

I suppose I'll just go through with that. I should look for some encyclopedic info on the new DLC, though - I am sure there must be some good reviews out there :) ~Mable (chat) 07:11, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Guys, we really need sources for the plot of Plague of Shadows - we also need them for the original game, of course, but we need to know whether this DLC is even notable enough for such a big section... ~Mable (chat) 15:21, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Then cite the game itself as a source. That's what other featured video game articles do. -- 136.181.195.25 (talk) 15:35, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Sourcing the game itself is fine for the information, but what I want to know is how much weight we should give to the recently published downloadable content. Are there reviews and such out there? Isn't it pointless to describe the whole plot of a side-game without giving context through the development and reception sections? ~Mable (chat) 17:41, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Shovel Knight on XBox One

@ThomasO1989:, according to this recent Polygon article], it seems to me the digital version still exists on XBox One? "A digital version remains available for Xbox One fans." Even if the game was removed from the digital storefront, shouldn't it be noted that the game existed on the platform at some point, rather than completely removing mention of it? I know that the XBox version of Shovel Knight has (had?) some unique content based on Battletoads. If anything, we should note why the game was canceled/removed. ~Mable (chat) 20:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Ah, my mistake. Reverted the edit. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 21:54, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

:) ~Mable (chat) 06:06, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

butt mode?

surely it's garnered enough press to be notable? crude and silly yes, but we are meant to be impartial are we not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.97.34 (talk) 17:01, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Of all the things this article misses, I think the butt mode is the least of our worries ^_^ I understand where you're coming from - it's a fun little easter egg - but it really is nothing more than an easter egg. All the press it got was about how it's a fun little easter egg and nothing really interesting about it. I think the article is better off without it being mentioned ^_^; I also wouldn't know where such information would fit in our current article: all we really know about it is that it exists, but it doesn't fit in the plot section at all. If we knew why it's included in the game, we could theoretically put it in the development section. Right now, it just doesn't have any place in the article; WP:Undue and all. ~Mable (chat) 18:26, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Shield Knight be merged into this article. The reason is simply that the character lacks notability; while there is coverage in reliable sources, most of it is passing and not enough for independent notability. This was also suggested by the closure of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shield Knight. Glades12 (talk) 19:47, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Withdrawn. I no longer care. Glades12 (talk) 06:45, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

• Glades12 I agree. Considering that no other characters have a page (that I could find), and that Shield Knight simply isn't as famous as even Shovel Knight himself, I believe that the Shield Knight article should be moved into this one. While the intentions with the wiki page may have been good, there's simply no verifiable reason that Shield Knight should have their own page. PixelMage (talk) 00:36, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

It's actually a good idea, and I suggest that a wiki page for the characters of Shovel Knight would be created TwilightMidna (talk) 23:52, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

I oppose this proposal, as merging Shield Knight into this article would either greatly unbalance this article, or we'll lose a lot of information about the character in the process. We clearly have enough reliable sources discussing the character in order to write an extensive article (as shown). As for the WP:OSE argument, I did intend to write articles on characters like Plague Knight and King Knight, but I just never got to it. The fact that these articles don't exist (yet) isn't a reason to redirect the existing article, though. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 15:00, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

I do not agree with this proposal. I agree with Maplestrip's reasoning. Also, there are many instances of video games where the protagonist is not as notable in real life as its supporting characters due to the actual response from video game journalists and its fandom. Haleth (talk) 04:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

So when it comes to video game characters, we have to be careful. The reception has to be related to Shield Knight as a character, and not as a gameplay element. The majority of the reception relies on Shield Knight being a gameplay element, not as a character. So I support the merge. This isn't a case of WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST. Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 15:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

• Leaning towards opposing a merger. It survived an AFD and there’s plenty of content present. Sergecross73 msg me 16:26, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

@Sergecross73: That's true, but if you read some of the content, the majority it is primarily analyzing the gameplay elements instead of the character. Also, the AfD was over 5 years ago. Have standards for video game characters changed from now and 5 five years ago?Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 16:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

A little, but usually when people talk about that shift in standards, it’s more around the 2009-2010 era, where there was an explosion of unnecessary spinouts. I don’t think standards have changed as much since 2015. Sergecross73 msg me 16:57, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

• I also oppose a merge. The suggestion to merge appears to be invented whole cloth by the person who closed the AFD, which itself consisted only of Keep votes (and one 'redirect without merge'). I don't understand the logic behind Blue Pumpkin Pie's comments about Shield Knight-as-gameplay. What are games if not gameplay? Of course if a character is known for their role in gameplay, the concept/creation/reception will focus on that. There's never been a rule that reception sections for characters has to be about them "as a character", whatever that means. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:00, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

@Axem Titanium: If a character is only known for their role in gameplay than they are not praising the character, they're praising the game.

I'm confused when you ask me, "What are games without gameplay?" Are you suggesting that video game characters and video games have no distinction and we should use reception for gameplay and say it's also for a character?

If you read the Reception of Shield Knight, the reception has a lot of information that isnt actually "Reception". Some using very basic descriptions from third party sources, and mentioning the dream sequence minigame.

A lot of the commentary focusing on the gameplay more than the character. The only real reception IMHO is comparisons to Peach.

This was the explanation that I received when I requested a Riku (Kingdom Hearts) article and it was rejected. The same reasoning is why Spider-Man (Insomniac Games) was controversial and in addition also why it failed to be a GA aswell.

Here are things that I personally think is reception from the character separate from the game: Analysis of their personality or behavior. Analysis of their design. If the commentator believes they are iconic or generic, and obviously comparisons to other notable characters. Cultural impact (cosplay, appearing in other media). Anything that says "K like/dislike shield knight" and not "I like/dislike the minigame that uses shield knight".Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 08:10, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Games are gameplay. If a character is praised in the context of the gameplay they provide, that's still praise for a character. I have no insight into the logic behind decisions about other articles. Axem Titanium (talk) 11:38, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

I don't understand why you continue to clarify that games are gameplay. The only reason I can think of that you keep pointing that out is because you're trying to insinuate that "video game Characters are gameplay too". And to that I say, to an extent. We have to pay attention to the context of the review and make sure they are highlighting the character not just the gameplay.

Like i said, if you read the reception of Shield Knight there is gratituos to say the least. There may be potential for it to be written better and take better points from reviews. But its important to me that we are on the same page on how to handle characters in general (not just video game characters). Did you read the reception?Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 14:53, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Also it would be a great idea to look into those other articles or ideas i mentioned that use this logic. if you truly feel strongly about your position, then it should reflect on other articles in WP:VG as well]Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 14:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Because you are asserting that gameplay reception does not constitute part of "reception" for a character. Broadly across Wikipedia, games are too often treated solely as works of fiction and ignore the part where you play it. How it feels to play as Dante from Devil May Cry (his "game feel") is an important part of his character and comments about that should constitute part of the reception of that character. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:32, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Because you are asserting that gameplay reception does not constitute part of "reception" for a character

To a small extent, I do believe gameplay reception can also be reception for characters. But, They have to reflect and provide commentary on the character through the gameplay, not just reflect on the gameplay that the characters happen to be related. Otherwise, I would consider it as WP:SYNTHESIS.

Broadly across Wikipedia, games are too often treated solely as works of fiction and ignore the part where you play it.

To me, this is a case of "Every Square is a quadrilateral" but "Not every quadrilateral is a Square". Games contain gameplay, story, and characters. I just don't believe all commentary on gameplay is also a commentary on the characters themselves. Specifically in this case with Shield Knight dream sequence where Shovel Knight has a dream and you control Shovel Knight in order to catch her with zero dialogue. It definitely highlights their relationship, but I'm not seeing reviewers provide any commentary other than describing the game.

If you think about it, the same principle also applies to video game music. Even though there are dozens of reviews highlighting the music, we don't create album articles or even include unless it is being highlighted separately from the game.

How it feels to play as Dante from Devil May Cry (his "game feel") is an important part of his character and comments about that should constitute part of the reception of that character.

And again, I agree to a certain extent. The way the article Dante (Devil May Cry) the primary reception is in his design and personality. There is some commentary on the gameplay, but that is only on comparison on the reboot version. Although I personally find it overly simplistic and if I dig deeper, I would challenge its relevancy if all they said was "one gameplay was better than the other" but not show how the gameplay reflects the character.

See Ayla (Chrono Trigger) for example of what I personally consider good commentary on gameplay that reflects on the character.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 15:59, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

Plot issues

The plot is too long and we should start considering creating a brief summary. I also recommend creating a Characters of Shovel Knight in order to preserve the details. I notice including Shovel Knight Dig in the plot. This article should only be for the game and the DLC. Any sequels like "Dig", "Pocket Dungeon", should probably avoid plot until they have their own respected articles.Blue Pumpkin Pie ^{Chat Contribs} 17:13, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Gameplay image

I think we should change out the gameplay screenshot. There's really no reason for it to be from a pre-release. Harmonia per misericordia. OmegaFallon (talk) 20:22, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Shield Knight into Shovel Knight#Shovel of Hope campaign

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This character article arguably fails WP:GNG with very little in the way of articles specifically about and critically discussing Shield Knight. Most references are either discussing the cast as a whole or reviews of the game itself in which Shield Knight is mentioned. The fact that the titular Shovel Knight, who appears in cameos in far more games, is still not notable enough for an article and yet somehow Shield Knight is, gives one pause. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:56, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

• Support: The parent article is insubstantial enough to warrant a split. Information about the creation of Shield Knight can go into the developent section of this page. OceanHok (talk) 11:14, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose: My stance has not changed since the merge discussion from 2 years ago, and that is I agree with the arguments put forward by Axem Titanium and Maplestrip/Mable in that discussion. The definition of "significant coverage" provided by the guideline page, as in "more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material", specifically refutes the notion that an article must be specifically about the subject in order to contribute towards the presumption that a standalone page is probably warranted. The complaint that the Shield Knight character does not have a page yet a less prominent character somehow does is irrelevant to this discussion and just a WP:OSE argument; it is up to the interested or invested editor's judgment as to whether a separate page is warranted, and up to community consensus to determine whether it should remain on Wikipedia. Haleth (talk) 13:29, 28 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Programming Language used to make shovel knight

Shovel Knight was written in c++ and OpenGL. I'm not sure where to add this and would like some help AbleTheAbove (talk) 06:46, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Don't think that's particularly noteworthy. Most games are written in those languages. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 17:11, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

References

More images?

The current article is rather straining to read, particularly the plot sections. I suggest relevant images are added to said sections to break up the walls of text and make it clearer, easier, and more pleasing to the eyes. Thoughts? Caidren (talk) 22:19, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Shovel Knight needs a series article

Currently, there are three Shovel Knight games which usually mean a series article needs to be created. I originally created the series article but it got deleted due of no sources and very little content. So why not create that again but with sources and much explanation. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 01:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

"Need" is a big word. There hasn't been much editor effort into expanding our coverage of Pocket Dungeon and Dig in this article, and series articles would tend to split off from the main game article. But if you're willing to put in the work to create a series article, then I'm sure that would work out well! I would suggest writing a short section about the new games in this article first though. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

I add a "Spinoffs" sub-section in the legacy section in the article and also remove the sources in the lead section to the spinoffs sub-section. NatwonTSG2 (talk) 14:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Fall Guys Collaboration?

When reading the Shovel Knight Wikipedia I notice that in the legacy section that there is no reference to the collaboration Shovel Knight had with Fall Guys. Could we possibly edit the article to talk about the Shovel knight costume in Fall guys?

Hunter Kaminski (talk) 17:17, 7 September 2023 (UTC)