Talk:Tenzin Palmo

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Buddhism Low‑importance

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Buddhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Buddhism. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page for more details on the projects.BuddhismWikipedia:WikiProject BuddhismTemplate:WikiProject BuddhismBuddhism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Feminism Low‑importance

	Feminism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Feminism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Feminism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FeminismWikipedia:WikiProject FeminismTemplate:WikiProject FeminismFeminism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Tibet Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tibet, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Tibet on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TibetWikipedia:WikiProject TibetTemplate:WikiProject TibetTibet articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Veganism and Vegetarianism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Veganism and Vegetarianism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of veganism and vegetarianism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Veganism and VegetarianismWikipedia:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismTemplate:WikiProject Veganism and VegetarianismVeganism and Vegetarianism articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women in Religion Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of the Women in Religion WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Women in religion. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Women in ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject Women in ReligionTemplate:WikiProject Women in ReligionWomen in Religion articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Merge vote

Merge. This is a no-brainer. Sylvain1972 19:41, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

We don't really need to vote on this. Someone just needs to do it. --JJay 23:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, it's done. Sylvain1972 15:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

True?

In this german text [1] the author says that Tenzin Palmo vowed to become the first female buddha. I wonder whether she really did so. Anybody knows?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.69.59 (talk) 11:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, she did. I have a quote for it in the Vicki Mackenzie book on her. I'll stick it up as soon as I get time to check the source. Hmm checked chat below... missed that first bit. No, she didn't say that because in Vajrayana Buddhism there are already plenty of other female Buddhas... she said that like Tara (who did vow to become the first Mahayana female Buddha) she'd become a Buddha in the female form. Dakinijones (talk) 21:07, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes

Here it is said, too Lady Buddha. I HAVE MADE a vow to attain enlightenment in the female form – no matter how many lifetimes it takes.” (she has not talked about "first female Buddha", though.)

Abstract: A brief overview of the situation for nuns in the Tibetan Tradition by Bhiksuni Tenzin Palmo
Women Buddhas: A Short List of Female Saints, Teachers and Practitioners in Tibetan Buddhism see section Tenzin Palmo, the great Yogini quotation from the text: "Before H.E. Khamtrul Rinpoche passed away in 1980, he had on several occasions requested Tenzin Palmo to start a convent for women yoginis. In 1993, the Lamas of the Khampagar monastery in Himachal Pradesh India again made this request. Tenzin Palmo began slowly collecting funds for this formidable task. In 1999, she established Dongyu Gatsal Ling Nunnery in the Himalayas, where she continues to live and teach. For more information about Tenzin Palmo and the Dongyu Gatsal Ling Nunnery, please see tenzinpalmo.com."

Can nuns be yoginis, or they always are? Tibetan Buddhist nuns can be yoginis if they practice tantric yogas. Tenzin Palmo does. Nuns who don't choose to practice aren't yoginis. Not all yoginis are nuns. Not all nuns are yoginisDakinijones (talk) 21:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC) Nice to get an answer. Thank you. Austerlitz -- 88.72.27.48 (talk) 06:35, 19 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WAiB Pages, Resources on Women's Ordination Here -besides other- it is said: "Dongyu Gatsal Ling (Kagyu) is a new nunnery founded by Ven. Tenzin Palmo, the English-born nun who recently concluded a traditional 12-year retreat in the Himalayas (see Vicki Mackenzie's book Cave in the Snow: A Western Woman's Quest for Enlightenment). The nunnery will be filled with young women from the Himalayan border region. At this nunnery, Tenzin Palmo also plans to re-establish the extinct lineage of togdenmas (yoginis) within the Drukpa Kagyu tradition.
[2]
Interview
[3]
Interview undated

The article can be expanded, no?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.85.222 (talk) 08:54, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

She said: "Greed, anger, arrogance, jealousy – all the negative energies would be gone if we can control our minds. Greed goes closely with anger and frustration. Materialism is nothing to do with levels of happiness. Buddha said greed is like salty water. You can swallow the whole ocean and never satisfy your thirst." Sorry, but I've lost the source for this quotation somehow.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.85.222 (talk) 09:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Togdenma lineage some information

Austerlitz -- 88.75.85.222 (talk) 09:18, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've put the term Bhikkhuni behind buddhist nun. I am not quite sure whether it is okay or not.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.85.222 (talk) 20:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Togdenma —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.72.22.61 (talk) 23:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Khandro Rinpoche

Austerlitz -- 88.72.22.61 (talk) 23:12, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jetsünma Lineage

[4] "There has been another significant line within the Mindrolling tradition apart from the Trichen line of throne holders and the Khenchen line of vinaya holders. This is the Jetsünma line, one of the most remarkable features of Mindrolling. It is a line of many great female masters known as the Jetsünmas, daughters of various Mindrolling Trichens over the years."

Maybe the female teachers belonging to a line are generally called Jetsünmas? for example that's the title of Sakya Trinzin's sister Sakya Trizin -Jetsun Kushok Chimey Luding-, too.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.88.86 (talk) 08:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ordination

In the article it is said: "The ordination was as a shramanerika, or novice nun, the highest level of ordination currently available for women in the Tibetan tradition where the bhikshuni sangha has died out. However, with the support of her teacher, in 1973 Tenzin Palmo received the full bhikshuni ordination in Hong Kong, one of the first Western women to do so."

What IS a full bhikshuni ordination what does it mean?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.197.75 (talk) 15:15, 14 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It means a greater number of vows to keep, 10 for the novices and 371 for the full nuns I believe. If you follow the wiki links to shramanerika and bhikshuni it explains the differences. Dakinijones (talk) 20:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have been there. The article on Tenzin Palmo says that she received the full bhikshuni ordination in Hong Kong. As it seems to me you have read the book on the life of Tenzin Palmo. Does it mention the socalled Eight rules or vows of respect? Has she taken them, too, in Hong Kong? Austerlitz -- 88.75.215.112 (talk) 09:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Congress

International Congress on Buddhist Women's Role in the Sangha, should be mentioned within the article, I think.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.200.77 (talk) 21:33, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ebook

eBook

Austerlitz -- 88.72.5.124 (talk) 10:34, 24 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Togdenma

[5] Here one can see a living Togden (male) but no living togdenma.

By the way, on tv featuring Tenzin Palmo they showed some togdenma people, women only, as far as I remember, and they had lots of thick hair. I wondered whether somebody wants to shave their hair in the togdenma order to be revived.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.213.192 (talk) 11:23, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Togden

[6] Here it is said about Tashi Jong:

"Nowadays Tashi Jong includes: A group of highly realized yogis called Tokdens. In Tibet the Tokdens lived in retreat centers or in caves. In Tashi Jong there is a retreat center with all the facilities needed for extended periods of seclusion. Although they are fully ordained monks, the Tokdens display the matted hair and white robes of Milarepa’s traditional attire. At present, there are around thirteen retreatants, who have been practicing for many years, and who have not set a definite conclusion date as yet."

Austerlitz -- 88.75.83.94 (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Austerlitz -- 88.75.83.94 (talk) 22:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Khampagar Monastery

[14] and Tokden Atrin.

Austerlitz -- 88.75.83.94 (talk) 22:17, 21 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

^ Falk, Geoffrey D. (2007) "Stripping the Gurus: Sex Violence, Abuse and Enlightenment" Chapter 17, A Wild and Crazy Wisdom Guy There is something about Tenzin Palmo,too. Though it is interesting, perhaps it appears to be gossip?

Austerlitz -- 88.75.95.181 (talk) 12:47, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tenzin Palmo

[15], see section "The Changing Status of Women (and also, the Plight of Western Monastics)"

quotation from her text: "When I first came to India I lived in a monastery with 100 monks. I was the only nun,' she said, and paused for several seconds for her words to sink in. 'I think that is why I eventually went to live by myself in a cave.' Everyone got the point. 'The monks were kind, and I had no problems of sexual harassment or troubles of that sort, but of course I was unfortunately within a female form. They actually told me they prayed that in my next life I would have the good fortune to be reborn as a male so that I could join in all the monastery's activities. In the meantime, they said, they didn't hold it too much against me that I had this inferior rebirth in the female form. It wasn't too much my fault.'"

What to do with it?

Austerlitz -- 83.236.19.10 (talk) 10:26, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've inserted it.

There is another quotation, here, Realising the Potential of Nuns, Interview with Tenzin Palmo at Dongyu Gyatsal Ling Nunnery, near Tashijong, India, September 2006 by Di Cousens

"As far as nun’s development is concerned, it is coming up quite well. One of the main areas which nuns usually lacked was education and now more and more nunneries are having a philosophical educational program so this is a big leap forward. Just recently we got a letter from the Tibetan Religious Office saying that this year’s gathering of the nunneries for the annual debate would be held in Mundgod in the South. So now it has become the tradition for the nuns to come together to debate at different nunneries. This is a really wonderful thing."

What to do with it? Maybe the article needs a new section?

Austerlitz -- 83.236.19.7 (talk) 08:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Here it is talked about the subject in the following way, [16]:

"For her cave has now expanded to include the whole world, particularly those women who are looking to engage in spiritual life. Tenzin Palmo has become an enabler, and through the Dongyu Gatsal Ling nunnery that she set up almost ten years ago she is helping to open the door a little wider for women who are going forth upon this difficult path. The nunnery aims to provide nuns with education, meditative practice and the practical skills that will enable them to run nunneries in future. Encouraging more women to become teachers of Buddhism is also a pressing matter. Despite the gender bias faced by Buddhist nuns, the teachings themselves are gender-neutral, because basically, as Tenzin Palmo explains, “They are dealing with the nature of the mind, how to become more conscious of our thoughts and our inner world, and to see beyond our thoughts to our unborn awareness, which is neither male nor female.” She is keen to go beyond the issue of gender in the meditative space. “If we look into our minds, when we are really sitting and meditating properly, there is no male or female. We all have our innate ignorance, and from that arises our greed and aggressions and jealousies. Male or female, in the end, we are all dealing with our deluded frame of mind whilst aiming to transform it into something that embodies wisdom and compassion.”"

Austerlitz -- 83.236.19.7 (talk) 09:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In 2007 she said, for example, In a cave no more: Buddhist nun on world fund tour - By David O'Reilly, Philadelphia Inquirer, April 24, 2007: "Everything I read in those days was about monks, monks, monks," she recalled with a laugh.

Worse, women who did commit to Tibetan religious life typically found themselves kept uneducated and "waiting on the monks" as cooks and housekeepers.

Members of her community study Buddhist philosophy and rituals, learn Tibetan and English, and meditate. "Our goal is that some of the women will themselves become teachers of philosophy," Palmo said.

She laughed, too, when asked whether she was thought to be the reincarnation of some previous great teacher.

"No, no, no," she said. "I'm just a nun: not a lama, not a scholar, not a yogini," she said.

"I'm nothing."

Austerlitz -- 83.236.19.7 (talk) 10:01, 28 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]