Talk:The Damned (band)
|This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to . If you are connected to one of the subjects of this article and need help, please see this page.|
|This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:|
- 1 They Suck Rat Buttered Ass, And All The Sides Suck Three Four Five
- 2 Croydon a suburb of London?
- 3 Testimonials
- 4 re: links
- 5 Art Rock?
- 6 re: major edit
- 7 1969 / 1970
- 8 Template
- 9 "New Wave"
- 10 Is she really going out with him?
- 11 Little Miss Disaster credits...
- 12 1990s history
- 13 Captain Sensible and Lou Deprijck...
- 14 Sphinx Svenson
- 15 Not just a rock band
- 16 Music For Pleasure
- 17 My Cunt's Honorable Discharge
- 18 WTF!?!? Gothic Rock!?!?
- 19 No mention of the Damned in Wiki's Goth Rock page?
- 20 Jon Moss
- 21 What, is Wikipedia anti-grammar?
They Suck Rat Buttered Ass, And All The Sides Suck Three Four Five
Croydon a suburb of London?
Croydon isn't really a suburb of London; British cities do not have suburbs as such, as Britain tends to be more one continuous urban sprawl rather than discreet cities as in the US. I changed it to "a suburban town outside London." Also edited the syntax as it sounded like Croydon was formed in 1976. --Taskforce 14:22, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
couldn't you say something like Croydon, Greater London?
The Damned were absoloutely BRILLIANT + had lots of 'Punk firsts' Like they released the 1st punk single 'New Rose' in October 1976, They had the 1st punk album 'Damned, Damned,Damned' and they were the 1st uk punk band to tour America. So there! [23:05, 8 November 2001 200.191.188.xxx]
They were very very good. I was at the 100 Club the night they played there with the Pistols, and I have to tell you it was f***ing awesome. sjc [<= 15:51, 25 February 2002]
It's important to convert terms to links only when it serves a purpose in the article. Common nouns, dates, well-known places, etc., aren't linked-to. Example:
- The Damned initially came together in the first wave of British punk rock. They have dissolved and reformed many times, often incorporating other elements in their music, most notably garage rock, psychedelic music, the British theatrical horror-rock of Screaming Lord Sutch and the rock-Vaudeville of...
It's unlikely that anyone will need a link to rock and roll, London, England, 1976, etc., so the choppy blue text becomes a distraction. Many readers WILL, however, need a link to Screaming Lord Sutch and other unfamiliar terms. [17:29, 6 December 2004 Auto movil]
re: major edit
could the people who worked on the discography help restore their edits? thanks. Auto movil 00:46, 26 Mar 2005 (UTC)
1969 / 1970
I haven't got a copy to hand so I can't check, but I'm pretty sure the Stooges cover on the first album was 1969 (from The Stooges), not 1970 (from Fun House). They did play 1970 on stage but as far as I know never put it on an album. --BTLizard 11:18, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It eas '1970,' and it was on the second Damned album, retitled as 'I Feel Alright.' [22:49, 5 June 2005 Auto movil]
They cover 1970 on their 1st album and re-title it 'I Feel Alright' Auto movil you should "look things up" before posting snotty things like "Look it up before changing things, ey?" (your words) because it seems you really do not know what you're talking about! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 04:23, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
There needs to be a template for The Damned. I can't figure out how to do it myself. [09:08, 26 July 2005 22.214.171.124]
I changed "New Wave" to "psychedelic" as The Damned came before New Wave and it would take more explanation to justify calling them that in the first line then seems necessary since the band's evolution is already explained later on and also since it's the term google uses to describe them. I'm not saying Google is the end all be all, I'm just saying it's a pretty good reason to think they are. [04:17, 19 August 2005 Pimpalicious]
- Err Damned Damned Damned is closer to Iggy & The Stooges than Psychedelic. Music For Pleasure, nah that's not psychedelic either. Machine Gun Etiquette is Punk Rock or just Rock 'N' Roll. They dabbled with a little psychedelia on Strawberries and released a whole album of 60's type psychedelia as Naz Nomad & The Nightmares. The Damned are tricky to pigeon hole because of their own progression but I wouldn't label them as psychedelic. [07:14, 7 November 2005 126.96.36.199]
It's ridiculous to deny the band's psychedelic sound. Frankly, The Damned has a fanbase of people that grew up in the 1980's; this means our parents listened to psychedelic rock. Given that all of us kids are too cool to like stuff our parents listened to, we refuse to admit the true nature of The Damned. The band's punk rock roots are undeniable; then again, that is completely based on Brian James' control freak writing. In many ways, the modern version of The Damned didn't appear until after James got the sack. And, that leads us back to the issue at hand: Sensible and Vanian are heavily influenced by psychedelic rock and it shows.
I see that Machine Gun Etiquette was mentioned to deny The Damned as a psychedelic rock band. Interesting. Would you care to explain the "jam session" in the middle of Anti-Pope? Or would you be more comfortable explaining the lengthy cover of "White Rabbit" that was recorded during the Machine Gun Etiquette sessions?... I see you also conveniently ignored The Black Album.
From where I'm sitting, denying the clear sound of psychedelic rock in The Damned is rooted most in the fear of admitting we are listening to the same music as our parents. We are rebels one and all... at least we thought we were. Get over it; after being freed of James, The Damned is a psychedic rock band before goth, punk, or anything else. (Don't worry, I won't tell your parents.) 188.8.131.52 (talk) 04:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Whilst I agree that the band have become more psychedelic as the years pass, there are a couple of factual mistakes in your comments:
- Brian James did not get the "sack", he decided to split the band in February 1978.
- White Rabbit was not recorded during the Machine Gun Etiquette sessions, I was recorded in the summer of 1980, the plan being to release it as a single prior to the release of The Black Album. Paul Gray is playing bass on this recording, not Algy Ward.
Is she really going out with him?
Vanian's deadpan intro ("Is she really going out with him?") was later borrowed by Joe Jackson for the title of arguably his best-known song.
Surely source of both usages of the line is "The Leader Of The Pack" introduction by The Shangri Las [17:20, 2 November 2005 184.108.40.206]
- Agreed; I've added words to that effect. Wasted Time R 17:01, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Little Miss Disaster credits...
I might be a bit out of the loop here, but why is Stu West playing bass on the new single? I thought Patricia Morrison was bass player? The offical site doesn't say any different...
Tom Prankerd 16:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
The Official Damned website, http://www.officialdamned.com/, has been updated to show the new lineup, which includes Stu West as bassist. Patricia Morrison, the former bassist for The Damned and wife of singer Dave Vanian since 1996, retired in 2004 to give birth to and care for their baby girl, Emily. Strike71 07:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
The Damned appear to have had a tumultuous history in the 1990s, with competing claims of control of the name, albums released then disowned, fast-changing lineups, and the like. I have no idea what's what, not knowing the band, but some material is in an old version of this article, more is at the AMG history, and so on. Someone who has a handle on all this should expand the Recent Years section accordingly. Wasted Time R 17:41, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Captain Sensible and Lou Deprijck...
are the same person...!!! <email@example.com>: Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 14:06:34 +0200 De: "Vanholme" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Afficher la fiche contact À: "KOENIG Stephan" <email@example.com>, firstname.lastname@example.org, "lou depryck" <email@example.com> Objet: Re: Daydream: 12/1968 ou 03/1969?
J'ai une très mauvaise mémoire. les questions concernant Wallace &Fred; tu peux tjrs essayer via son frère Rusi les questions pour Lou via Lou (je crois qu'il était captain sensible....c'est un caméléon) "(tr.: I think he was Captain Sensible...he is a cameleon)!!!
220.127.116.11 13:49, 29 May 2006 (UTC) Stephan Koenig
18.104.22.168 10:48, 8 September 2006 (UTC)Captain Sensible was not involved in the Naz Nomad and the Nightmares side-project or the recording of the "Give Daddy The Knife, Cindy" album. He was still in The Damned at that period but had various commitments to his solo career going on at the time, and "Give Daddy The Knife, Cindy" was a project for the others whilst they were waiting for Captain to get back to The Damned.
Sphinx Svenson was, of course, the alter-ego of Roman Jugg.
Not just a rock band
It makes absolutely no sense to describe The Damned as merely a "rock band" in the opening sentence. That description gives no clue to what they are like. I have changed it back a few times to what the original description was, punk and goth. I then reduced it to appear as "punk/goth" (although directing to punk rock and goth rock) because of a complaint that "punk rock/goth rock" was "too messy." If someone has a better way of wording it, go ahead, but do not change it to "rock band", because that's not what they are. Spylab 17:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
P.S. They have in fact been punk and goth at the same time. They didn't all of a sudden go from one style to the other, and when they tour now, they play songs from their entire career, which includes both goth and punk-style music. Even their most recent album, Grave Disorder, has both goth and punk elements. Spylab 18:51, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The last album was Gothabilly. During the bands most notable period, they were not gothic rock. They started as a punk band and then went on to experiment with gothic rock styles. So putting the band as "punk/goth" in the opening is an incorrect assertion. They have however, always played a form of rock (music). - Deathrocker 19:27, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- I own a copy of Grave Disorder and have listened to it many times, and there is definitely punk rock in there. If you don't want it to say punk/goth then feel free to change it to "punk and goth", but referring to them simply as a "rock band" is pointless.Spylab 19:38, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
- Rock is a larger designation that leaves for less ambiguity when multiple subgenres apply. In the case of the Damned, they play punk rock (which is a rock subgenre) and gothic rock (a subgenre of alternative rock, which in turn is a rock subgenre). It's a bit pointless and messy to write "punk rock/gothic rock" band when not only do both genres belong under the larger heading of rock music, but the relationship of these specific subgenres to the band are explained later in the same paragraph (not to mention listed in the infobox just to the side). Remember, an article's lead section should be as to-the-point and open to the uninformed reader as possible. With that in mind, it's best to try and sum up any particular band in one genre term in the first sentence, because it's the first sentence of the article and everything else will be explained in due course. With the Sex Pistols it just says "punk" because it's simple, to-the-point, and they belong to that one specific rock genre. With Led Zeppelin, a number of rock subgenres apply, so it just says "rock". The band's listing under hard rock and heavy metal is then explained a few lines later. WesleyDodds 10:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It's perfectly justified to describe Led Zepplin as a "rock band" because they fit the image of a "rock band" in the most common understanding of the word. The Damned do not. Led Zepplin are the kind of band that punk was created to rebel against. Calling The Damned a "rock band" is innaccurate and does not make the opening sentence "as to-the-point and open to the uninformed reader as possible." In fact it confuses the uninformed reader because it does not describe at all what the Damned are like. Spylab 14:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- Nevertheless, they are a rock band, just like Buddy Holly and the Crickets, Black Sabbath, Faust, The Cars, The Cure, and Nirvana are. Miles Davis isn't jazz in the same way Al Jolson is, but they're still both jazz. WesleyDodds 01:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- The term rock music didn't exist when Buddy Holly was around. It was still only called rock and roll. From Wikipedia: Black Sabbath "are an English heavy metal band from Birmingham, England."; Faust "is a German krautrock band..."; The Cars "were a popular American New Wave band..." Even The Cure article says that they are "widely seen as one of the leading pioneers of the British alternative rock scene of the 1980s" in the opening sentence. All of those articles make an effort to be precise about what the bands are like. This article should be factually accurate as well. Spylab 01:53, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- You missed the part where it says "The Cure are a successful English rock band". Like I said before, some bands can be described off the bat with a specific rock subgenre, which a lot of pages do. That doesn't apply to the Damned, clearly. Like I said before, the point of the lead section is to sum up the article to th casual reader, one who may not even know what rock music is. Thus we shouldn't throw out a bunch of terms in quick succession without explanation. Mind you, in this article's lead section the Damned's place in punk and goth is explaned, so the first sentence doesn't need to list those two genres specifically. I have no problem with the article being precise, but what I'm getting at is it doesn't need to be precise in the frst sentence, because it's precise in the next two or three. It's redundant. WesleyDodds 02:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
- It does apply to the Damned, clearly. They play punk and gothic rock. Simple. Both terms have links to Wikipedia articles if people have never heard of those music genres. And if they haven't heard of them, chances are they wouldn't be looking up an article about the Damned in the first place. Yes it does have to be precise in the first sentence. That is the whole point of the opening sentence. It should answer in one sentence, "What is The Damned?" (or whatever other topic an article is about). Spylab
- No, it's supposed to do that in the space of one to three paragraphs. Which it does, so it doesn't need to say goth/punk in the first sentence, since the band's notable role in both genres needs to be explained. WesleyDodds 07:29, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Music For Pleasure
"For years, the band deleted Music For Pleasure from their official discography, never performing any of its songs onstage"... This is wrong. They never deleted the album from their official discography (see http://www.officialdamned.com/) and they played most of the songs on stage as lots of live records and bootlegs can prove it ("Stretcher Case" and "Problem Child" on the "School Bullies" LP, "Idiot Box" and "You know" on the "Chaos Years" CD, etc).
My Cunt's Honorable Discharge
In the Don Lett's Documentary Punk-Attitude; Captain Sensible mentions Chrissie Hynde choosing My Cunt's Honorable Discharge as a band name. Should this be in the article with the other early names? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk)
- Only if we wanted an example of Sensible's bawdy wit, I think. Assuming that can be verifiably shown to have been said as well. --Guinnog 05:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
WTF!?!? Gothic Rock!?!?
The Damned WAS NEVER "gothic rock" whoever keeps on puttiing this on here has NO idea what he's talkiing about!
- They are well known as a gothic rock band. And it is well cited. --JD554 (talk) 09:36, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
You could ask it from a person who owns the legacy, and knows everything and every which-way The Damned has went, i'll tell you one thing, it isn't me, but it's a family member of mine that thinks that statement is pure fucked up bullshit! YaBoiKrakerz
- Please read Wikipedia's policiy on verifiability. It needs to be cited and hearsay isn't verifiable. --JD554 (talk) 18:00, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
I have to agree with JD554 here the Damned is Goth rock. It is sorta gothic rock but more like a goth-punk fusion (the complete opposite of say, Souxsie and the Banshees or Gerard MacMahn) (DeanBaetz (talk) 23:36, 3 November 2011 (UTC))
No mention of the Damned in Wiki's Goth Rock page?
With the importance that the Damned's article puts on their contribution to goth rock, shouldn't they be among the acts discussed on the article for that genre? I can't do it myself, I am mostly familiar with Damned, Damned, Damned and Machine gun Etiqette, and to a lesser extent their recent history...
What, is Wikipedia anti-grammar?
This is an edit I made to The Damned earlier:http://tinypic.com/r/rqvfd5/9 This is what showed up on my talk page after it was reverted: http://tinypic.com/r/fdslkj/9 Not constructive? Why, because it actually reads like someone with the vaguest grasp of the English language wrote it? "Shift towards gothic rock," and "recordings turn more goth," mean exactly the same thing, it's just that one reads like it was written by someone who graduated high school. If you don't like how I worded it, fine, but my edit was not vandalism in any way, shape or form. And please, somebody do better because the way that heading reads in the article is embarrassing. 126.96.36.199 (talk) 02:42, 2 April 2016 (UTC)