Talk:Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1956 album)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.

Discussions:

No consensus, 16 January 2024, to Jimmy Smith at the Organ, see discussion.
Moved, 17 March 2024, from The Incredible Jimmy Smith at the Organ to Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1956 album), see discussion.

Requested move 16 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. After much-extended time for discussion, there have been many proposals and explanations, but no formation of consensus. I would suggest trying again in a few months with a proposal that more clearly outlines the issue and proposes an actionable solution. BD2412 T 03:28, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– The move destination already exists. TlonicChronic (talk) 19:55, 16 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 02:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Albums has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:12, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Jazz has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 21:13, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @TlonicChronic you accidentally forgot to put your rationale Dantus21 (talk) 22:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added move of associated article. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:02, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose so far. All of these are sometimes known as Jimmy Smith at the Organ and I don't see a clear reason why "volume 3" should be moved to the plain title a the expense of "vols. 1 & 2". I am also not sure why the first two volumes have the same article, since the article text says they are "separate but related" albums; however, if the first two can go together, then perhaps a solution would be to merge the third volume there as well. Dekimasuよ! 04:13, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't actually Jimmy Smith at the Organ Volume 3, that's a misnomer. This is actually The Incredible Jimmy Smith Volume 3, labeled "Jimmy Smith at the Organ" on the cover. "Jimmy Smith at the Organ" and "The Incredible Jimmy Smith" are just Blue Note epithets for Jimmy Smith. The album pair "Jimmy Smith at the Organ, Vols 1 & 2" came out after this album, they are unrelated (except they're both Jimmy Smith Blue Note albums). "The Incredible Jimmy Smith Volume 3" just means the third album on the label by Smith. TlonicChronic (talk) 15:44, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support 2nd move as is, but 1st move only if moved to Jimmy Smith at the Organ, Vol. 3. I think that either a split or merging of the articles is warranted, but as of right now I am not sure what would be the better option Dantus21 (talk) 13:31, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This album is unrelated to the other pair; I don't think they should be merged. It's more related to "The Incredible Jimmy Smith, Vols. 1 & 2" (BLP 1512 & BLP 1514, A New Star, A New Star Vols. 1 & 2), but I think merging there would also be a mistake. TlonicChronic (talk) 15:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Merge into Jimmy Smith at the Organ~~ per Dekimasu's reasoning above. There isn't a huge amount of prose in either of these two articles, and since they all share the same title and are closely related, even if just as a WP:SETINDEX, I see little reason to maintain two separate pages, one of which must bear an unusual title. Certainly treating vols 1 & 2 separately from the vol 3 is weird to me, even if there are in-depth reasons why some editors think it makes sense. — Amakuru (talk) 10:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are entirely unrelated albums. Volume 3 means the third Jimmy Smith album on Blue Note. This album came out before that pair (and that pair were recorded and released concurrently, with the same album cover, and a shared track list).

If anything, it belongs with the first two Jimmy Smith albums A New Sound... A New Star..., Vol. 1 and A New Sound – A New Star, Vol. 2, because all three of these albums have actually been compiled together as A New Sound...A New Star...: Jimmy Smith at the Organ Vols 1–3, but again, these are three separate studio albums, recorded and released separately. TlonicChronic (talk) 13:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this. Here's the first part of the discography:

Year released	Label	Catalogue	Title	Recording date	Notes
1956	Blue Note	BLP 1512	A New Sound... A New Star..., Vol. 1	1956-02-18
1956	Blue Note	BLP 1514	A New Sound – A New Star, Vol. 2	1956-03-27	AKA The Champ
1956	Blue Note	BLP 1525	Jimmy Smith at the Organ	1956-06-17, -18	AKA The Incredible Jimmy Smith, Vol. 3
1956	Blue Note	BLP 1528	At Club Baby Grand, Volume 1	1956-08-04	Live
1956	Blue Note	BLP 1529	At Club Baby Grand, Volume 2	1956-08-04	Live
1957	Blue Note	BLP 1547	A Date with Jimmy Smith, Volume One	1957-02-11, -12, -13
1957	Blue Note	BLP 1548	A Date with Jimmy Smith, Volume Two	1957-02-11, -12, -13
1957	Blue Note	BLP 1551	Jimmy Smith at the Organ, Volume 1	1957-02-12, -13
1957	Blue Note	BLP 1552	Jimmy Smith at the Organ, Volume 2	1957-02-12, -13

We're discussing the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and an unrelated 8th and 9th album. His third album should absolutely not be merged with his 8th and 9th albums. TlonicChronic (talk) 13:50, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I guess I did misunderstand the situation then, thanks for the clarification. However, I still don't think the third album should particularly be elevated to primary status over the others, and the proposed "Vols. 1 & 2" title is still rather confusing and non-standard. Might it be best to just go with Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1956 album) and Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1957 albums or something similar? — Amakuru (talk) 15:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any problem with that; I'm weak on DAB, and don't know the proper parenthetical to use. But The Incredible Jimmy Smith at the Organ is a misnomer caused by a misreading of the back of the Japanese limited CD reissue that combined the credited artist with the album title (The Incredible(br)JIMMY SMITH(br)at the Organ), and needs to be changed. TlonicChronic (talk) 15:59, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's also the title used at one of the article's cited sources (AllMusic): The Incredible Jimmy Smith at the Organ – wbm1058 (talk) 23:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Amakuru's suggestion of Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1956 album) and Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1957 albums) – the albums do seem to all share this title, even if Allmusic appends "The Incredible" to the 1956 album. It's a confusing situation and I think an explicit DAB is our best bet at keeping that confusion to a minimum. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 17:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Dekimasu and Dantus21: does this suggestion work for you? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 20:48, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 17 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as proposed. BD2412 T 00:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Incredible Jimmy Smith at the Organ → Jimmy Smith at the Organ (1956 album) – suggested by Amakuru; had 4 supports and no opposes TlonicChronic (talk) 07:47, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per my comments above. — Amakuru (talk) 12:26, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per my and Amakuru's comments in the previous RM. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 18:44, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.