Talk:Trick shot

Overhaul and expand post haste!

Resolved

 – Article greatly improved.

This baby-stub needs a total overhaul and expansion; this should be a major article, as trick shots are the subject of heated, televised intl. pro competition! — SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 22:34, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Im working on this. Vandalfighter101 15:30, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I've done some general cleanup myself, including removing a number of outright b.s. statements, cleaning up the broken English, improving the organization of the article, and wikifying the content. While it is still rather paltry, I think it would survive AfD now if at least one reliable source were added. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You got any ideas to help this article out? and what do you mean "outright b.s. statements? right now im looking at the history of trick shot.Vandalfighter101 08:09, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Taken to user talk. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Marking this topic "Resolved", as the article has improved vastly in the last two days. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

References

Resolved

 – Refs not actually usable.

I came across this article and noticed that it needed some references. See WP:CITET for proper formatting templates.

• Interactive Trick shots
• Google Book search: billiards trick shot

Hope they help! Cheers. Cliff smith 20:58, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

thanks for the help manVandalfighter101 13:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

However, neither of those are suitable as references. The first is non-authoritative, and the second it just a list of books.— SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:24, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, um, the list of books was to possibly find a book in that list to use as a reference. It's fairly obvious that that simple link wouldn't actually be a reference. And I understand the first link being non-authoritative. Thanks for the explanation! Cliff smith 03:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Right. Wasn't meant as criticism; just a footnote. I see people paste all kinds of stuff in as "references" here and there. :-) — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:24, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Artistic pool

Because a.p. does not consist entirely of trick shots, it should probably move to its own article after it expands into a couple more sourced paragraphs. Between the two sites cited, there is certainly enough material to write up quite a bit more about it. Artistic billiards now mentions it and (for now) links here with {{Main}}. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 16:55, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you please explain what you mean by "a.p. does not consist entirely of trick shots"? Thanks. --Techin (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

As in artistic billiards, some of the standard moves that must be performed in a.p. consist simply of displays of great skill at masséing, which aren't trick shots proper, just badassness. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 00:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

If a trick shot is "a shot played on a billiards table which does something with the balls that would seem unlikely or impossible", then I would argue that a masse, badass or not, falls well within the definition of a trick shot. And for amateurs looking to get in to the "competitions" (namely, Trick Shot Magic or World Cup of Trick Shots), a.p. is a primary avenue for doing it. Also, the WPA-sanctioned Artistic Pool World Championships clearly has a.p. in its title. Would reference to this also be removed from this article if a.p. got its own article? --Techin (talk) 22:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Why would you think that? Even my local league players do massés on a regular basis. One might as well call a draw shot a "trick shot" by your interpretation, since those certainly amaze noobs, too.  :-) I don't follow your last question, really. If a.p. moved to its own article, then of course the sanctioning body for that discipline would move with it; one need not even ask. If the WPA's a.p. rules are used at non-a.p. events like Trick Shot Magic, then I imagine it would be mentioned at both articles; Wikipedia business-as-usual. Anyway, I don't understand why you seem to be so up-in-arms about this. The WPA World Nine-ball Championship is a nine-ball event but has its own article and is not stuffed into the nine-ball article. Why should this be any different? Eventually Trick Shot Magic, etc., should also have their own articles. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:21, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm just trying to get a better understanding of the organizational structure of this and related articles to make sure any contributions I make are properly placed. I'm still trying to grasp what will be considered, for the purposes of this article, as "trick shots proper" and where the delineation is between a.p. and trick shot competitions, as similar shots are used in both (that was my basis for my original question). I also started a discussion in the Category:Trick shot artist article trying to get similar clarification. I do think "The train" shot listed under Common trick shots is unimpressive to most noobs and league players alike though. It's just a standard three rail kick shot with a larger margin for error because of the cue. --Techin (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it; just add stuff (with sources) where they seem to fit, and if/when the time comes for an article split, we'll just deal with it then. Agree with you about "the train". That's more of a goof-off thing for children than a trick shot. Delete away! — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 00:46, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Eventual disambiguation

It is likely that eventually someone will write an article on trick shots in basketball, shooting sports, archery, golf, bowling, or whatever. When that happens, the articles should be renamed to Trick shot (cue sports), Trick shot (basketball), etc, with Trick shot itself being a disambiguation page. Category:Trick shots will also need to be usurped and generalized, with more specific subcats. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 03:22, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Missing disciplines

The APTSA disciplines are not entirely the same as "Dr. Cue" Rossman's, and established trick shot discipline books as used by Massey and others for decades pre-date both. CEB also published some kind of shot list (presumably for use on a pocketless carom table). — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ʕ(^Õل^ō)ˀ Contribs. 20:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Video gamer usage

Someone added the Call of Duty video game, and someone else reverted (unsourced, and the CoD aticle doe snot mention this term). However, ti can be sourced in seconds with Google: https://www.google.com/search?q=Call+of+Duty+trick+shots&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb

That said, it is not at all CoD-specific, but common to first-preson shooter gaming in particular (at least), as evidenced by plugging in otehr game names in a google serach, e.g. "Medal of Honor trick shots", "Ghost Recon trick shots". I'd bet good money that it applies to third-person shooter games, too, and any others in which shooting a projectile is a central feature of the gameplay. Sure enough, it's used by Skyrim archers. (Not counting billiards and basketball, etc., simulators, whose usage of the term is inherited from the real sports). Yep, further digging shows the usage turning up more broadly. However, when you think about it, it's simply derived from the usage in shooting sports and archery. I think our best approach here is to note that the term is also commonly used in references to intentional and accidental lucky shots in sports- and combat-simulator video games, cite an overview at a website like this (as a source of examples), and leave it at that. The idea that it's particular to CoD is demonstrably false, as is any notion that it's particular to some genre or community of gamers. A minute or two on YouTube looking around disproves such ideas easily.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  11:12, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Removed unsourceable entry

I removed a "Ron 'Just Like That' Dooley" entry, because a) there are no reliable sources for this person (all I can turn up are social media links), and even the nickname isn't a nickname, it'a a title of video Dooley made and posted on Facebook. There are thousands of nearly-unknown pool pros (instructors, road players, etc.) who are not notable in Wikipedia terms: they do not have substantial coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources. Even the major, professionally edited pool magazines and sites don't seem to have anything about Dooley other than occasional passing mentions. User-generated content like Facebook, About.com, TheTopTens.com, TopTenz.net, TopMP3Hindi.xyz, YouTube, TheHypertexts.com, MP3NewSong.info, Answers.Yahoo.com, etc., do not qualify as reliable sources.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  02:22, 16 March 2016 (UTC)one of the best trick shot artist in the world ,you need to do better searching on this one !

one of the best trick shot and money pool players in the usa — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.12.75.94 (talk) 00:17, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

That may well be true, but if no one is writing about him except in social media and on Web forums, we can't write about him here, per our core content policies and the notability guideline: We have to have multiple, in-depth, reliable sources that are independent of the subject. Over a year and a half on, there may well be such sources on this player by now.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  10:14, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Artistic pool, and sources

We really need to do a proper Artistic pool article (it presently just redirects to a section at Trick shot). This has become a major cue sport with a lot of television coverage, and today way more amateur (thanks to Tom Rossman's efforts in running side events at amateur eight-ball league national championships for many years; I was in one of those!) and professional, international competition than a decade ago when it was basically Mike Massey and and handful of other guys.

I've been alerted by Rossman to the fact that ArtisticPoolPlayers.com, which is frequently cited at pages like Andy Segal, is a one-author blog, and thus not a reliable source per WP:SPS. There are various sites run but league organizations that are more reliable, but he suggests using http://wpa~apd.com, since it's run by the World Pool-Billiard Association, the primary sport governing body for cue sports other than snooker and three-cushion. I'm not sure if it will have information on all titles and tournaments or just WPA ones, but at any rate it's going to be the no. 1 source for WPA artistic pool stats, since it's the most official source of them.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ<  10:11, 27 November 2017 (UTC)