Talk:Nyland Brigade

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Military history: European / Nordic

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Nyland Brigade or Uusimaa Brigade?

Nyland Brigad is almost more common in Finnish language usage than Uudenman Prikaati, but the FDF website calls it the Uusimaa Brigade.[1] If that is the official translation, then we should use that instead. --Laisak 06:57, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt "Nyland Brigad" is more used than Uudenmaan prikaati when speaking in Finnish, sounds silly to combine languages like that, when atleast I've always heard of "Uudenmaan prikaati". FDF indeed seems to use Uusimaa Brigade as the official translation, and Uusimaa has a Finnish-speaking majority, so I don't see why it shouldn't be on a Finnish name. --Pudeo ⺮ 11:23, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Finnish Defence Forces use "Uusimaa Brigade" at various locations, and the name has twice as much hits in Google than "Nyland Brigade", thus moving it back to the original name back when User:Jniemenmaa created it. --Pudeo ⺮ 09:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well when you search for Nylands Brigade it should atleast automatically redirect to Uusimaa Brigade and i can't really see what Uusimaa having a Finnish-speaking majority has to do with this? Since Uusimaa brigade definetly has a Swedish-speaking majority (although the majority are Bilingual) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaagi (talk • contribs) 14:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Uusimaa as a region of Finland or as a historical province has nowadays a definitely Finnish-speaking majority, although historically, the situation has varied. So the name of the province and the region in Wikipedia is according to the naming convention in the Finnish form.

The name of this article is however not dependent on the name of either the province or of the region. We are talking about the brigade. In official communications of the Finnish Defence Forces, the unit is always Uudenmaan prikaati in Finnish and Nylands brigad in Swedish. In other Finnish-speaking sources, the brigade is almost invariably called with its Finnish name. (A Google search on Finnish-speaking pages gives over 5,000 hits for "Uudenmaan prikaati" and about 250 hits for "Nylands brigad".) The brigade itself is a Swedish-speaking unit (the only in the FDF), so its internal activities take place in Swedish. Then it uses, of course, the Swedish name. This is also the case, when Swedish-speakers discuss the brigade. However, the FDF also has official English translations for the unit names. The official translation of the brigade name is Uusimaa Brigade, whether we like it or not. This is the form most NATO sources would use for the unit. --MPorciusCato (talk) 09:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like that face either, but it is sadly the reality. I suspect it's because the military has only one official command language (Finnish). That's why even the orders in Nylands brigad are shouted in Finnish, despite the rest of the activity occurring in Swedish. I guess, on the battlefield, one would not be able to afford the niceties of yelling commands twice or in a difference language for different groups. 130.235.252.33 (talk) 14:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

English name on brigade – new standards?

On this official web page, written in English, the brigade is clearly called the Nyland Brigade. [2] Have changes been made since the discussion above was held, or do sources differ? Fomalhaut76 (talk) 13:21, 22 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

No answer? When I now search merivoimat.fi and puolustusvoimat.fi, Google finds no occurrences of "Uusimaa Brigade" on the former and only six on the latter, at least some of them historical. Seems "Nyland Brigade" nowadays is used in official English context. Time for moving the page (and the Commons category)? --LPfi (talk) 15:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 January 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved: after two relists, consensus appears to support the argument from Google sources and hits. (closed by non-admin page mover) SITH (talk) 17:42, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Uusimaa Brigade → Nyland Brigade – Nyland Brigade seems to be the name used in English in official sources, at least since some time (see discussion above). The language of the brigade is Swedish, so using the Finnish name of the region is controversial. The official name of the brigade is "Nylands brigad". LPfi (talk) 22:40, 7 January 2019 (UTC)--Relisted. –Ammarpad (talk) 08:22, 15 January 2019 (UTC) --Relisting. В²C ☎ 18:53, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose but would not oppose relisting. Nomination makes no case whatsoever in terms of our article naming policy. The official name has little relevance, and official sources may well be primary sources and if so would have far less relevance than reliable secondary sources. (And the discussion above similarly misses the point.) Andrewa (talk) 08:17, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: A Google search gave 28,000 hits for "Nyland Brigade", 20,000 for "Uusimaa Brigade". Both thus seem to be in wide use (in English, as neither is used in Swedish or Finnish), with the proposed name more common. As the use by the defence force has changed, one can expect the difference to grow over time. Both titles fulfil the five criteria given early in the linked policy. I do not have access to good English secondary sources (Google Scholar gives only a dozen or so hits), but I suppose the use in primary sources (the brigade itself) should have some weight, as should the use by the Finnish defence forces and the brigade itself. The brigade being Swedish is important, as using Finnish names for Swedish phenomena in Finland can be seen as ignoring the bilingualism of Finland (and thus not neutral). I see no good arguments in favour of keeping the current name, now that the Swedish derived one is used in official context. --LPfi (talk) 08:23, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Nyland is Swedish. Uusimaa is Finnish. It is Finland's most populous region, and it includes the national capital of Helsinki. The brigade is Finnish, but they use Swedish, an official language in Finland. Usage is good for both, better for Nyland. In cases like this, the official, the self-declared English name, is absolutely relevant, is actually the decisive factor. This is like an individual having declared what their name is. Per https://merivoimat.fi/en/nyland-brigade, they are, in English, the Nyland Brigade. cf Nylands Brigad in Swedish. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:16, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support since it is a Swedish-speaking brigade. Lovesaver (talk) 05:22, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per LPfi, though in Google Books and Google News very little trace of either. Swayed by the official page in this case. @Andrewa: think perhaps look again after Google source evidence presented above. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.