Talk:Walter Map

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Bishop of Hereford??[edit]

This links to a non-Catholic religious description. They were all Catholics back then. This is one of couple descriptions that's a little confusing. For anyone who might be editing. CarolMooreDC (talk) 20:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Bishop of Hereford is a very short article, but I guess its implication is that the bishopric (founded, it says, in 676) slipped from the Catholic church into the Church of England, very much as the whole of England did. If that's right, the link here is not at fault; it's just that the article Bishop of Hereford needs more history. Andrew Dalby 15:26, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
wouldn't this make more sense being discussed on the article for Bishop of Hereford itself? Ealdgyth - Talk 00:11, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Worth noting too that the CoE didn't exist when Walter Map was writing (not until 1534). Pbhj (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC)


"a man of the Welsh Marches (marchio sum Walensibus)" says the article. But AFAICT Wales didn't exist at the time of Walter Map. It was possibly briefly unified under Gruffydd ap LLywelyn for a few years before ~1063 but then wasn't unified until the English crown annexed it as a bunch of principalities around ~1242. So I'm intrigued if this is a quote from Walter Map - or a contemporary - or just someone telling us what the Latin name for the Welsh Marches is, if the later then it should be cut as it's misleading and that info would be on the wikilinked Welsh Marches page anyway. Pbhj (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

The reference is De Nugis Curialium, Distinc. ii. c. 23. When you say "Wales didn't exist" you mean "a political unit known to others as Wales didn't exist": sorry to be hyperpedantic, but I think we agree that the mountains and the people were there. The word Walter used, "Walenses" (Welsh), doesn't imply a political unit. In origin it's a word used all over Europe, from the Vlachs and Wallachians westwards, a POV exonym for "people from the wild country".
Incidentally, "He claims Welsh origin" (words that I myself wrote long ago) doesn't depend on this Latin phrase, which if anything implies the opposite -- literally it says "I am a borderer to/with the Welsh". The ODNB (which I am just now checking), confirms that he "claimed kinship" and referred to Welsh people as his "compatriotae". Better add some footnotes. Andrew Dalby 10:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)


His name was Walter Mapes, not Map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The name "Mapes" has certainly been used, especially in 19th century publications, but to say that his name was "not Map" you'd be arguing with a lot of more recent sources. The fact is, spellings vary. In any case it was a bad idea to change the spelling in the footnote to the ODNB: that's a bibliographical reference, and that's the way they spell it. Andrew Dalby 18:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)