Talk:Yahweh

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awareness to factuality[edit]

The expression, not name but actual meaning, since not actually finally-concluded (especially in written form) as being referred to Yahveh, Yah Veh or YHVH is most presently of meaning now.

Clearly all knowledge of besaid is relating from the torah, bible, septuagint as in scriptual form , and from earlier artifacts where it is widely unconcluded whether or whether not the lettering and phrasing is referring to besaid.

With such (factually and only by clear referrence with a just measure) in regard the factuality is: Yahveh is of present meaning. - self explaining the devastation of depictions and strange abreviations according to the content of the torah, which is the sole and main (paleo hebrew original text / greek septuagint / modern hebrew torah / christian bible)and only correct document to refer and state from, being the very leading source of knowledge despite the oral and some artifactual and all evidentual expressions and impressions.

correct stated: Also, present meaning in any case comes as more sure factuality then historic views. where the present meaning is lead from historic views and is most currently of prescence and action. Seperation of historians view has to be done and referred to as such clearly, especially in this holy manner majorly recieved from holy scripture.(strict factual) Again, wich all knowledge is recieved from the torah (and its lead to textuality and scriptuality) and as such has to be guarded and in accord with all additional content of such, from the torah equally.

correct as such (wording and spelling in brackets not included) following:

Yahweh (/ˈjɑːhweɪ/, or often /ˈjɑːweɪ/ in English; Hebrew: יהוה‎‎) is a meaning for the one god of israel and the jewish people, all creation and all existance. In the wake of time became to be known to israel, sowith the jewish people and further to humanity. In its form of writting presently and prior withnessed withunder thru the hebrew and christian bible, and other ancient documents such as the septuagint and earlier inscriptions of historic findings revealed troughout time till present. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Info as is (talkcontribs) 18:13, 5 August 2016 (UTC)

Either you cannot properly write English or it is a word salad. Tgeorgescu (talk) 14:55, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

This Yahweh and the Present-day Yahweh[edit]

Should we consider the Edomite Yahweh and the present-day Yahweh the same, especially since lore about the polytheistic ancient Yahweh (Exodus, etc.) is understood by followers to about the monotheistic present-day Yahweh they worship. If we consider them the same deity then "His origins are mysterious" is non-neutral.Gonzales John (talk) 05:42, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

The scope of this article is Yahweh in Bronze/Iron Age Israel and Judah. That Yahweh isn't the same as the modern God of Israel, because gods change and evolve over time, especially over a period as long as three thousand years.
If by "Edomite" Yahweh you mean the name mentioned in the ancient Egyptian inscriptions, the answer is that nobody has any idea what that god was like - all it amounts to is the phrase "Shasu of YHW", with YHW apparently a place-name, not the name of a god.
Modern Jews do regard the scriptural YHWH to be their God, the God who brought them out of Egypt and continues to hold them before all mankind as his own people, but the scope of our article is YHWH as he was conceived in the two Iron Age kingdoms for the space of about 500 years between 1000-500 BCE. Even in that space of time the way he was conceived changed, from a warrior god with his shrine at Shiloh leading Israel against her enemies to a god who adopted the King of Jerusalem as his son. At that earliest stage the Exodus story wasn't important in Judah - there's no trace of it in the earliest southern prophets, only in the northern ones - and it was only after the Exile that the Exodus story became central to Jews. In other words, YHWH has been constantly changing, and the YHWH we're talking about in this article had little in common with the YHWH of a thousand years later.PiCo (talk) 10:30, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
PiCo (talk), okay, I guess I'm satisfied now.Gonzales John (talk) 07:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
If the scope of the article is YHWH as he was conceived in the two Iron Age kingdoms, shouldn't the title reflect that? "Yahweh in the Iron Age of the Levant" or something? The various concepts of YHWH are far more than just Iron Age beliefs; and an article titled Yahweh, should also cover ancient and modern Judaism, Christianity and even Rastafarianism. Philip72 (talk) 16:27, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
This has been discussed to death. Yahweh is an ancient god, our article is about that ancient god, and neither Jews nor Christians nor Muslims usually call their God Yahweh. See WP:COMMONNAME. Tgeorgescu (talk) 17:10, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

The scope of a potential reader of this page may not be the scope of the author. Unless there is a clear sepearate page to present information on the current day Yahweh, how will a reader who has no contextual knowledge be able to differentiate between the two? Auhsojpay (talk) 16:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

As to Tgeorgescu claims on how Yahweh is not a present God, I beg to differ. Christianity bases the deitism of Jesus on Yahweh, being the only begotten son of Yahweh. The culture and context of early age Christianity, up until Jerusalem was torn down, was mostly Jewish. The meaning of Yeshua which is the Hebrew translation for the Greek "Jesus" is in fact "Yahweh is Salvation". Auhsojpay (talk) 16:50, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Replied below. Tgeorgescu (talk) 02:03, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Further balance of view points[edit]

To whom this may be of relevance to:

Firstly I would like to admit that I am new to editing and discussing on this platform, and would appreciate the reader's understanding henceforth, if I have made any naive mistakes. There have been various interesting view points I have encountered on this page so far that have been at the very least informative. I have observed that a balance and accuracy of view points is of great importance to the authors of this page. May I suggest that the Jewish and Christian beliefs of Yahweh be at least presented on this page? I suggest this because: 1) Many consider the Torah or Old Testament reliable sources of information, and would thus appreciate the addition of the origins of Yahweh from this point of view. 2) Those searching on "Yahweh" may not only be those interested in knowing the view points of historians who have questioned and examined the theories behind how the "god" came to be the national god. They may be those who simply desire to know what part Yahweh plays in Judaism and Christianity. 3) "Yahweh" cannot be simply looked upon as a historical god that can be compared to Moloch, the reason being that Yahweh is of great significance in the biblical texts, which would be of great significance to the existing religions in the present. Unlike Egyptian or Norse gods, "Yahweh" should be viewed as a very current cultural influence in the sense that "Yahweh" is heavily involved in Jewish and Christian worship.

In conclusion, I propose adding a section presenting Yahweh in the context of the current beliefs Jewish and Christians have. Auhsojpay (talk) 16:44, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

This article is about the national god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Samaria and Judah. For the Jewish conception of God, see God in Judaism. For other uses, see Yahweh (disambiguation). See also: Tetragrammaton.
Sounds familiar, I guess. This has been discussed to death, see the archives of this talk page for details. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19:31, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Maybe the end of the "transition to monotheism" section should also point the reader at God in Judaism or something? The article does come to a somewhat abrupt end there. -165.234.252.11 (talk) 18:42, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
The god discussed in this article is the ancestor (intellectually speaking) of the modern God of Judaism, but the two aren't identical. The modern God doesn't demand animal sacrifice and has no temple or High Priest and doesn't offer his protection to a specific nation-state (or at least I don't think HaShem is supposed to protect Israel and no other nation); the Yahweh of this article lived in a heavenly temple located directly above the Temple in Jerusalem, which was at the centre of the world, which is also unlike the modern God of Israe; and most importantly, the ancient Yahweh recognised the existence of other gods, but the modern God is the One True God of all the world. I think most if not all of these points are covered in the article. But it's interesting to study how God changes over the centuries. PiCo (talk) 06:14, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
@PiCo: Sorry to respond with such a huge delay. I am 100% in agreement with you on the scope of the article, but imagine someone with a similar interest trying to study these changes over the centuries by reading Wikipedia. They start here, reach the end of the narrative, and then...? -165.234.252.11 (talk) 19:07, 24 January 2017 (UTC)
And then they click the link to the next article in the series, which is Second Temple Judaism. I had a go at writing that but sort of lost interest (it's a lot of work and a lot of time). If you'd like to take over, you're welcome. After that one comes {Rabbinic Judaism]] I guess, and I haven't looked further. There are also a couple of articles on Judaism and its history. All in all far too many articles - they multiply like religiously-minded rabbits.PiCo (talk) 23:24, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

NPOV dispute[edit]

Entire article is built on a strawman and opinion, and should be deleted with a redirect. Let me explain.

There is no where that Yahweh is used as "national god" by "iron age" kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Besides the history, scope, and time period being disputed by many, "Yahweh" is an entirely made up modern name. It was no where used by people back then, who did not pronounce the name of God, and it is nowhere found written down or in scripture used by them, which only contains YHWH.

There are at least half a dozen different modern guesses of the name, including Yahweh, Yahwah, Yahawah, Yahovah, Yaheveh, Yehaweh, Yehowah, Yehowih, Yehwih, Yahuweh, Yahueh, Yahuah, Jahveh, Iabe, Iahueh, Iehouah, and Jehovah, all of which add vowels and change the meaning and/or pronunciation of the name.

None of what I just wrote is in dispute. There is no "Yahweh" of the old testament known to definitely be such. The whole article is a strawman and should be deleted, and replaced with a stub to links to YHWH and Jewish and Christian conceptions of God (and/or like references). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FCC8:A247:DE00:41D7:CFE0:D9CC:9129 (talk) 07:13, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Why is this justification for a POV tag? Also, are you Gonzales John? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 10:53, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
The cited sources are not sufficient to convince you that what we call "Yahweh" was an iron-age, national-god? Isambard Kingdom (talk) 13:57, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles aren't about what editors personally think they should render, they are about what scholars/scientists have written. Tgeorgescu (talk) 14:52, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
This article is offensive to religion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wittgenstein123 (talkcontribs) 05:07, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
WP:NOTCENSORED. Tgeorgescu (talk) 05:25, 20 February 2017 (UTC)

Yahweh added to Ancient Canaanite religion & change in this article[edit]

See my comment at Talk:Ancient Canaanite religion#Yahweh. Doug Weller talk 14:36, 27 January 2017 (UTC)