Talk:Yue opera

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China

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Opera

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 July 2020 and 14 August 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Xwang2182.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Characters

The Wiktionary-linking of the Chinese characters allows readers to follow the links to see the etymology of these characters, and, thus, the name of the opera form, providing an article that is maximally encyclopedic. It's much better to discuss properly first, rather than reverting again and again prior to engaging in such discussion; this is part of editing Wikipedia in a collegial manner, which is one of the most important things to which we should aspire, following the wisdom of our founders. Badagnani (talk) 04:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Shaoxing opera"

Is it also called "Shaoxing opera" in Chinese? If so, what are the Chinese characters for this name? Badagnani (talk) 23:52, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is also called "Shaoxing Opera", and the Chinese Characters are "绍兴戏/紹興戲" Hoffnung2008 (talk) 12:42, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shaoju

Is it also called "Shaoju" in Chinese? Badagnani (talk) 23:52, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shaoju(Chinese: 绍剧) is another Chinese opera originated in Shaoxing.--Tianyamm2 (talk) 06:17, 25 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion of renaming this article to "Shaoxing Opera"

There is another kind of Chinese Opera also called "Yueju", same with this kind in pronounciation. However, if written in Chinese characters, this article is talking about "越剧", which is also called "Shaoxing Opera". It is popular in Zhejiang and Shanghai. Another type is "粤剧", which is also called "Cantonese Opera". It is popular in Guangdong. As the chinese character "越" and "粤" are same in pronounciation ("Yue"), there may be confuse for English readers who is not familiar with Chinese Language. Considering the "Cantonese Opera" was used as the name of the article about it, I suggest this article should be renamed to "Shaoxing Opera" Hoffnung2008 (talk) 12:42, 22 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Improvements on this stab article

Two things:

1) I elaborate on the first paragraph. The original statements lack the elaboration of Yueju opera as an art itself.

2) I am going to extend the current historical descriptions to give Wikipedians a better sense of what Yue Opera looks like. But I might not describe the history as that accurate and appropriate. English is not my mother language. I hope you guys could help me improve my writings in this article.

Jinlingluo (talk) 15:11, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Finishing Edits! More than welcome for criticisms!

Jinlingluo (talk) 14:11, 10 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 9 January 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Ultimately unopposed and the concerns raised have been rebutted. Jenks24 (talk) 07:06, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yue opera (Zhejiang) → Shaoxing opera – Exact same thing, WP:NATURAL, also see argument provided above by User:Hoffnung2008. In fact, "Shaoxing opera" (unambiguous) has been more prevalent in English-language books than "Yue opera" (ambiguous), see Google Ngram. Another problem with the current title is that in modern times this opera's popularity is not just limited to Zhejiang but throughout Chinese-speaking world, and even in history it probably enjoyed more success in Shanghai than Zhejiang. Also, both the French and Russian pages use the equivalents of "Shaoxing opera". Timmyshin (talk) 23:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

In the reference and links sections, it's all "Yue opera" and "Yueju." That includes Jin Jiang's Women Playing Men Yue Opera and Social Change in Twentieth-Century Shanghai, which appears to be the most in-depth account published in English. There is not one mention of "Shaoxing Opera." Female opera was part of the "High Modern"/decadent Shanghai culture that flowered in the 1930s. To suggest that this is the local opera of Shaoxing is to miss the point. H. Humbert (talk) 04:55, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This ngram is a bit clearer than the one in the nomination. A significant minority of the "Yue opera" hits refer to Cantonese opere, so the ngrams don't really resolve anything. This subject is primary for Yue opera and no disambiguation is needed. Chinese Wiki gives yuèjù, which is more relevant than French or Russian. H. Humbert (talk) 13:21, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Chinese wiki gives 越剧, not "yuèjù". "yuèjù" is a romanization of 越剧, but it's also a romanization of 粤剧 (Cantonese opera). So Chinese wiki is not as relevant as French wiki in this regard. "Yue" is essentially an older name of "Shaoxing", see Yue Prefecture (Zhejiang). I agree with you that this opera is not a local opera of Shaoxing, but is Hamburger something only consumed in Hamburg? It's just a name. As for the Google ngram, if you change the one you provided to a smoothing of 1: [1]. It may not resolve anything but at least it shows that "Shaoxing opera" is quite common in English-language books. If I have time I can easily replace all "Yue opera" references with "Shaoxing opera" references. Timmyshin (talk) 15:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Support - "Shaoxing opera" is at least as common as "Yue opera", and far less confusing. Also more WP:NATURAL than Yue opera (Zhejiang). By the way, the other Yue opera currently resides at Cantonese opera, not Yue opera (Guangdong). -Zanhe (talk) 12:40, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move to Yue opera

...is the best solution in my opinion because it's not only the predominant spelling in China today but also the most unambiguous title in English, as can be seen from a Google Books search:

Google Books search (first 30 results)	Yue opera	Shao opera	Cantonese opera	Can't tell	Unrelated (e.g. personal name)
"Yueju"	13	0	12	2	3
"Yueju opera"	25	0	3	2	0
"Shaoxing opera"	20	4	0	6	0
"Yue opera"	26.5	0	0.5	3	0

Basically "Yue opera" never refers to Cantonese opera in Google Books. The only reference to Cantonese opera, as noted by the "0.5" in the table above, was this sentence: "Regional genres introduced are... Yue opera, Shaoxing opera,... Cantonese (Yue) opera," Therefore, Yueju and Shaoxing opera are to be kept as disambiguation pages, and this article moved to Yue opera. Timmyshin (talk) 19:36, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]