This is an archive of past discussions about User:Acabashi. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
How are things going? I have been away a long time I think, mostly researching Brothertoft history. I have come up with a fair bit, but am unsure how to proceed with the Wiki article. Firstly - Sampson Gideon didnt own the place - its a spurious claim by William Marratt. I have seen the Final Concord at Surrey History Centre, dated 1760 between the Duke of Newcastle Heirs, Lady Catherine Pelham (widow of Henry) and Sir Charles Frederick who bought it directly from them. It was during SCF time that the surrounding fens were enclosed, and during his time that the Holland Fen Riots took place - with the Brothertoft people being some of the main instigators. When SCF died in 1785 his son and heir Thomas Lenox Frederick sold it to Major John Cartwright who took possession Lady Day 1789. Cartwright turned his hand to woad farming and built possibly the first stationary woad mill close to the Nth 40 foot bank. Cartwright moved to London in 1805, letting the Hall and refurbishing the Hall before selling to Henry Gee the Boston banker in 1813. He died 1845 and Thomas Gee son and heir took over, building the school and rebuilding the church, which was by now rather dilapidated.
The school existed seemingly both as a day school and a sunday school until 1880/1 when the Hedgehog Bridge and Barley Sheaf schools were opened by the Board. After this it was just a sunday school, and eventually became the parish hall.
With regard to who built the Hall, it seems at least some kind of manor house existed prior to 1776, when Sir Charles Frederick leased it to John Chappell, it was described as "Manor House farm previously called Capital farm house" and was repeatedly refurbished/extended possibly from the point of demolition and starting again on the same site. However there is no reliable record in existance of any single person building it. It existed in Cartwrights time, he extended it, it was later extended and modernised by both Gee and Frederick Curtois.
With regard to Thomas Saul/John Saul there is no record of them ever owning or even leasing the Hall. There is one of Thomas Saul leasing an area of "Low Fen" near Boston West from John Fossitt dikereeve of Boston, along with John Fisher and Robert Smith in 1729. This Thomas Saul laid the foundation stone of the new baptist chapel in Boston then promptly died in 1763 of smallpox and the chapel was built and completed by his son John Saul. Both men were buried at Brothertoft after funeral at Boston St Botolphs.
Most of this is citable either through online refs or the Parish History "Holland Fen with Brothertoft" by Betty Brammer 2000.
Yours A Panderoona (talk) 17:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
Nice to hear from you again. I've been off WP for about a fortnight myself - up to my eyes in the new Birds of a Feather tour which begins in 3 weeks time. Its at the Woking New Vic at the end of March - close to you I think.
It's difficult for me to advise as you on Brothertoft as you are the expert. A bit of the stuff looks like it can be added to Boston too. If you are adding substantially more it might be appropriate to have further sub-sub-sections as you have with buildings, to make it an easier read. The stuff you have seems to spread across different article sections but most seems to apply to the hall and land, perhaps 'manor' could include both, as there is not much on the actual structure of the hall building under "Hall", however 'manor' would have to go back to Saxon times. It's a problem in a place article when most of the information found is concentrated in one area: Geog or Hist or Amenities etc, or elements within these, which tends to overbalance it, but necessarily so if most info is about one aspect. When I get a bit more time I'll have a closer look - just add it in where you think for now. You have most likely seen this but it might help: [1]
As for Marrat's spurious claim, if it is reffed it should go in, but with a reffed counterclaim for what you understand from your research as being true, with mention of this contention, and with any indication from other sources that state that Marrat is not being factual. It's hard to believe that Marrat would directly mis-fact. Did Gideon just rent the land - did he own it and then sell it back ? Marrat might have just missed out a stage in ownership that he felt was less important. We have to go with what is verifiable unfortunately.
As for Sampson Gideon - his father Sampson Gideon was a Jewish banker and co-founder of the Stock Exchange, and whose actual name was Gideon Abudiente. It would be an interesting addition to the article if there is some Brothertoft connection for the father. Abudiente/Gideon, was one of the richest members of London's Jewish community, and according to Nocturnal Revels was a frequent client at the bawd Charlotte Hayes's "nunnery" - another article I'll have to have a go at. Acabashi (talk) 20:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
thanks Acabashi as always for good input - I will go away and have a think about how I think I should proceed. Might ask further advice or a proof-read ;) Panderoona (talk) 10:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Sampson Gideon - found no refs to him renting or owning land there at all unfortunatly. There are refs online to him buying up large areas of land in Bedford Level, and I think perhaps Marratt was either misinformed or confused. I doubt also that he would make a deliberate spurious claim. I have seen the indentures at Surrey History Centre (in full orig doc form) dated 1774 which are long, involved, and also give history of previous tenants - Manor farm for instance, was previously held by Mrs Elizabeth Airy. Several other farms seem to have also been held by her and also state the tenant before her as well. Manor farm was in 1776 rented out to John Chappell of Kelham but he only seems to stick around to circa 1780. Herbert Ingram (Agent) wrote letters on the accounts of the tenants at Brothertoft to Sir Charles Frederick and to his son Thomas Lenox Frederick. It seems when Chappell went off for whatever reason, Edward Wilks took over his account, until he died about the same time as SCF himself (1785). The estates of both were settled in TLF favour shortly after. Ingram relates meeting Major John Cartwright and showing him around Brothertoft prior to the eventual purchase. Very interesting reading! But no, frankly I havent been able to find anything on Gideon. Further backed up by the Holland Fen with Brothertoft parish Booklet, pub 2000 by a local historian with a degree, also came to conclusion land passed direct from The Duke of Newcastle and Catherine Pelham (widow of Henry) to SCF. The Final Concord relates the same. The online index to these refs can be found via National Archives, although of course they do not state the full story. Anyway, thats about the gist of it regarding Gideon? I have also asked Sitush to take a look. Many thanks as always and hope you are well A. Panderoona (talk) 22:31, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in their March 2012 Backlog elimination drive, a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on March 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on March 31 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goal for the drive will be to eliminate the remaining 2010 articles from the queue. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits more than 4,000 words, and special awards will be given to the top 5 in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", and "Number of articles of over 5,000 words". We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Dank, Diannaa, Stfg, and Coordinator emeritus SMasters. 19:25, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
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New Page Triage engagement strategy released
Hey guys!
I'm dropping you a note because you filled out the New Page Patrol survey, and indicated you'd be interested in being contacted about follow-up work. This is to notify you that we've finally released both the initial documentation about the project and also the engagement strategy, which sets out how we plan to work with the community on this. Please give both a read, and leave any comments or suggestions you have on the talkpage, on my talkpage, or in my inbox - okeyeswikimedia.org.
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 9,599 last month to 9,683 on February 28th). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 74 is just ahead of WP:GM who have 67. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 55 out of a total number of 2,917 articles.
Currently we have twenty nine Yorkshire featured articles:
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
New software release
By the time you read this the new software release mentioned in the last newsletter should be in as it is currently scheduled for 2 March. Problems in switching other wikis have been encountered, most notably Commons, which was reverted twice and, at the time of writing, is still experiencing problems with the new software. See article in Signpost for details.
Discussions
Members may be interested in some discussions that are ongoing at the moment. A discussion on whether or not secondary schools meet notability guidelines is still on-going. If you are interested in having articles on secondary schools then raise your voice in the discussion. Another schools related one is taking place on the talk page of template {{Infobox UK school}} about introducing co-ordinates in to the infobox in addition to the top right corner of the article. Similar discussion was also raised at {{Infobox UK place}}. If you have views then chip in and see if consensus can be found on these areas.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The March 2012 articles selected below are an editors choice as there were no suggestions on the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR.
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Your revision of the Page Walcott
Hi Acabashi,
Forgive me if I'm not doing this correctly, but I'd like to draw your attention to an edit youve made on the Walcott, Northi Lincolnshire page. The line "The village can be mistaken for another Walcot in North Lincolnshire, as confusing local road signs use both spellings: Walcott and Walcot." and an external link to a youtube video of the weeping ash n Walcot have been incorrectly added; local road signs use both spellings because there are two villages; Walcot, near Folkingham (where the ash is) and Walcott, north of Sleaford. There used to be a correct Walcot page but it has been deleted, presumably under disambiguation. If you could help fix this, it would be great as I have no idea how to.
Many thanks,
92.6.234.232 (talk) 17:47, 18 March 2012 (UTC)Jack
A Walcot Resident.
GOCE March drive wrap-up
Guild of Copy Editors March 2012 backlog elimination drive
GOCE March 2012 Backlog Elimination progress graph
Of the 70 people who signed up for this drive, 40 copy-edited at least one article. Thanks to all who participated! Special acknowledgement goes out to Lfstevens, who did over 200 articles, most of them in the last third of the drive, and topped all three leaderboard categories. You're a superstar! Stfg and others have been pre-checking the articles for quality and conformance to Wikipedia guidelines; some have been nominated for deletion or had some preliminary clean-up done to help make the copy-edit process more fun and appealing. Thanks to all who helped get those nasty last few articles out of the target months.
Progress report
During this drive we were successful in eliminating our target months—October, November, and December 2010—from the queue, and have now eliminated all the 2010 articles from our list. We were able to complete 500 articles this month! End-of-drive results and barnstar information can be found here.
When working on the backlog, please keep in mind that there are options other than copy-editing available; some articles may be candidates for deletion, or may not be suitable for copy-editing at this time for other reasons. The {{GOCEreviewed}} tag can be placed on any article you find to be totally uneditable, and you can nominate for deletion any that you discover to be copyright violations or completely unintelligible. If you need help deciding what to do, please contact any of the coordinators.
Thank you for participating in the March 2012 drive! All contributions are appreciated. Our next copy-edit drive will be in May.
Well I've removed that particular link anyway. You're right, there's no specific speedy category. However, based on a cursory Google search it doesn't seem like a notable rootkit. Perhaps a proposed deletion? ...discospinstertalk16:50, 8 April 2012 (UTC)
Categories
Sure and it's my pleasure, as always. I find that WP:HotCat helps with finding categories; it automatically fills them in as you enter them, so you get some idea of what things are available.
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 9,683 last month to 9,730 on March 29th). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 73 is just ahead of WP:GM who have 68. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 55 out of a total number of 2,928 articles.
Currently we have thirty Yorkshire featured articles:
As of 29 March 2012, we have assessed 100% of all articles with a project banner.
(Some new and additional article talk pages may still require a banner however)
Thanks
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Link rot
This month I thought that we should focus on link rot in articles. Articles are created with lots of references to online sources as this is often easier than using printed sources. This is all well and good until a few months down the line when the web site is no longer available or has been re-organised and the page linked to has been moved. Whatever the reason for the change results in the reference link in our article becoming dead or just pointing at the main page of the site in question. The link therefore provides no verification for the information in our article and needs to be repaired. If you find a link like this then it should be tagged with the {{dead link}} template rather than deleted as the information may give someone a clue as to where to find a replacement link. If you know where the page has been moved to then go ahead and change the URL in the reference rather than tagging it. You could Google to see if a new page can be located or use the Wayback machine to see if there is an archived copy of the page available. If an archived version is located then use the |archiveurl= and |archivedate= fields of the {{citation}} template to record the archived version of the page.
The more information that is recorded when the reference is added the easier it is to find replacement URLs so remember to record as much information as possible when adding a reference. A bare URL with no information as to page title, publisher, publication date etc. makes finding replacements almost impossible. You can add archive details when adding a reference so that there is a backup copy already recorded for the reference. A BOT is currently operating to add archive details to live links to prevent future link rot. For more information on the subject of link rot see here.
It would be good, if this month, we try to reduce the number of {{dead link}} templates in the project's articles as a BOT is currently going round adding the template to articles.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The April 2012 articles selected below are an editors choice as there were no suggestions on the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR.
Delivered April 2012 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.
→ Please direct all enquiries regarding this newsletter to the WikiProject talk page. → Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 05:02, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Quote by Donald Knuth about "Liberal Education"
Hello Acabashi, the quote by Donald Knuth comes from "Things a computer scientist rarely talks about" by Donald E. Knuth, CSLI Publication, Stanford, California, 2001. (ISBN1-57586-326-X).
The quote is from page 34 (Lecture 2: randomization and religion) "... if you think of the traditional definition of a liberal education: I don't know where I heard it first, but a liberal education is supposed to teach you 'something about everything and everything about something.'"
So actually it is not a definition given by Knuth.
On a note at page 51 it is said that the definition "is frequently attributed to Thomas Henry Huxley" and then that "it is attributed to Lord Henry Brougham".
The Guild of Copy Editors invites you to participate in their May 2012 Backlog elimination drive, a month-long effort to reduce the size of the copy edit backlog. The drive begins on May 1 at 00:00 (UTC) and ends on May 31 at 23:59 (UTC). Our goal for the drive will be to eliminate January, February, and March 2011 from the queue. Barnstars will be awarded to anyone who copy edits more than 4,000 words, and special awards will be given to the top 5 in the following categories: "Number of articles", "Number of words", and "Number of articles of over 5,000 words". We hope to see you there! – Your drive coordinators: Dank, Diannaa, and Stfg.
Participation: Out of 49 people signed up for this drive so far, 26 have copy-edited at least one article. It's a smaller group than last drive, but we're making good progress. If you've signed up but haven't yet copy-edited any articles, please consider doing so. Every bit helps! If you haven't signed up yet, it's not too late. Join us!
Progress report: We're on track to meet our targets for the drive, largely due to the efforts of Lfstevens and the others on the leaderboard. Thanks to all. We have reduced our target group of articles—January, February, and March 2011—by over half, and it looks like we will achieve that goal. Good progress is being made on the overall backlog as well, with over 500 articles copy-edited during the drive so far. The total backlog currently sits at around 3200 articles.
Hall of Fame: GOCE coordinator Diannaa was awarded a spot in the GOCE Hall of Fame this month! She has copy-edited over 1567 articles during these drives, and surpassed the 1,000,000-word mark on May 5. On to the second million! – Your drive coordinators: Dank, Diannaa and Stfg
Hi. The link to Domesday Book is part of the template. I personally do not know of any simple ways of modifying it to optionally not link to Domesday Book. If you (or anyone) do, then I would encourage you to be bold and do it. :) The couple of times 12 I know a link to the associated page on domesdaymap.co.uk already exist, I have simply added the (hidden) category. I hope that answer your question. KTC (talk) 10:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
I'm sure that the template could be modified to not link to the Domesday Book, although I don't see any value in removing useful links - perhaps for a very short article, two links to it is overkill, but, for anything longer, the original link may be difficult to locate. Warofdreamstalk13:40, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 9,730 last month to 9,769 on April 28th). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 73 is just ahead of WP:GM who have 68. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 56 out of a total number of 2,983 articles.
Currently we have thirty one Yorkshire featured articles:
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Elections
May is the month for local elections to take place in many of our town and cities. This will create a lot of work in updating all of the place articles that include council make-up details. In addition each of the elections will require a new article creating to cover details of the election and the results in each of the wards. A number of elections from the last round of elections have not yet been created and it would be good if the missing election articles could be created so that we have a full set of recent elections for Yorkshire.
At the same time as the local council elections a number of cities in the area are holding a referendum on elected mayors. The main article will need to be updated with the results from each of the cities involved and any background that may be relevant to that article. Individual articles covering the referendum in each of the cities involved would also be useful to create while the details and references are to hand in the local press.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The May 2012 articles selected below are an editors choice as there were no suggestions on the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR.
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
Delivered May 2012 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.
→ Please direct all enquiries regarding this newsletter to the WikiProject talk page. → Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 23:25, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 9,769 last month to 9,824 on May 28th). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 74 is just ahead of WP:GM who have 70. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 56 out of a total number of 2,993 articles.
Currently we have thirty one Yorkshire featured articles:
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Commons links
This month I thought that I would mention the {{Commons category}} template to generate a link to image categories on Commons holding additional images for topics. The template should be added to articles where Commons holds a number of other images that are not displayed in the article to provide a convenient link to these additional images. If you do not want to display the box then {{Commons category inline}} can be used instead to add an entry to the External links section.
The problem with both these templates is they use the article name as the name for the category on Commons so if an article is renamed the link is broken. To overcome this please ensure that all usages of these templates have as the first parameter the name of the category on Commons that is being used, even if it is the same as the article title. To enable those usages that have not been given a parameter to be tracked the hidden category Category:Commons category template with no category set has been set up. This has initially only been applied to the {{Commons category}} template. It would be good if members fixed these while editing articles to avoid having to edit specifically to fix the problem.
For newer members you can see hidden categories by setting the "Show hidden categories" option in the "Advanced options" section of the "Appearance" tab of the "my preferences" link.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The June 2012 articles selected below are an editors choice and a suggestion from the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR.
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
Delivered June 2012 by ENewsBot. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.
→ Please direct all enquiries regarding this newsletter to the WikiProject talk page. → Newsletter delivered by ENewsBot (info) · 12:22, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Participation: Out of 54 people who signed up this drive, 32 copy-edited at least one article. Last drive's superstar, Lfstevens, again stood out, topping the leader board in all three categories and copy-editing over 700 articles. Thanks to all who participated! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.
Progress report: We were once again successful in our primary goal—removing the oldest three months from the backlog—while removing 1166 articles from the queue, the second-most in our history. The total backlog currently sits at around 2600 articles, down from 8323 when we started out just over two years ago.
Coodinator election: The six-month term for our third tranche of Guild coordinators will be expiring at the end of June. We will be accepting nominations for the fourth tranche of coordinators, who will also serve a six-month term. Nominations will open starting on June 5. For complete information, please have a look at the election page. – Your drive coordinators: Dank, Diannaa, and Stfg
Many thanks with your help tidying some of the refs, etc in this article. Yes, I was very wary of wn.com, but couldn't find a link to that video anywhere else. I guess it's a pernmitted site, unlike YouTube, but less reliable. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I think WP has no probs with vids unless they contain promotional, copyvio, personal or POV material, and are on a reliable site and not surrounded by rich media. I can't see this particular Wn vid as I'm temporarily using an old computer - WP also cautions against linking to media that might be difficult to view by many. Wn text can also be a problem, text which is normally copy-pasted from other sites, including WP. I've also noticed that Wn links break down through frequent site changes. This vid and text is copied from here I think: [2] - if this is the one it's poor quality shooting with a lot of family shots and talk, and doesn't do the church any favours. Close shots focussed on people could also be a problem - featuring and outing non-notable persons.
WP cautions against YouTube (per above) but does not blanket-ban it - I use a YT account and occasionally add vids to WP place articles with no comeback so far, but they are religiously non-promotional, non-personal and focussed on the subject: [3]. Also I add them to External links rather than as an inline cite. When I'm back in Grantham I'll see if I can vid the church more professionally, but I'll not climb those stairs :) Cheers, Acabashi (talk) 13:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Like many of my additions to WP articles, that link was a little speculative, and I have no problem if other editors think it's not appropriate - either because of the host site or the actual video content. It is a bit amateurish and a bit too long. I'd be more than happy myself to climb those stairs and take a better video, but I don't have a good video camera and, of course, the parapet is open to the public only in one week every year. On the day that I visted last month, I was doubly disappointed as, even though it was a Friday morning, when the Trigge Chained Library is normally open, the man who shows people around was on holiday and no-one else could find the key! Also, all the photos I took of the incredible golden reredos did not come out well and had to be binned. Oh well, at least I saw the live CCTV of the peregrin falcons in the tower (which I think might also deserve a mention in the article.. ) Anyway, many thanks for your friendly advice and information. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
12th Century etc
I'm fairly sure your original "12th century" (without the hyphen) is the more common UK English form - or, at the least, it is an entirely valid and acceptable form and not an error. I have just been "corrected" in the same way by Chris-the-Speller and have undone his "correction" of a so-called typo! Some Wiki editors get a bit carried away, and some degenerate into self-important nit-pickers (with or without a hyphen) - I would not dream of saying into which category our self-appointed instructor in English falls :) John Hamilton (talk) 12:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
I understand John’s frustration here but I think we need to accede to MOS formula. A requirement to adhere to WP style can be annoying, but MOS formats are essential to keep an agreed look across all articles to avoid confusion and provide a professional and easily-understood reference system for readers – after all, WP is about reader experience not about our various ideas about how articles should be formulated, however much we might disagree with guidelines. Guidelines can be changed, but this happens within MOS discussion, not in articles.
My understanding is this: X is from the 12th century | X is from the early-12th century | X is a 12th-century Y | X is a 12th- to 13th-century Y | X is an early-12th-century Y. I read this in MOS somewhere, if I've got it right, but I can’t remember where – should have bookmarked - story of my WP life :) Please correct if I am wrong, add any other formulations, or perhaps point me back to the actual MOS reference that I inefficiently failed to note. Very many thanks. Acabashi (talk) 01:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
I think you got everything bang on, except for the second example, "X is from the early-12th century". There is no basis that I know of for using a hyphen; "early-12th" is not a compound modifier, as "early" modifies "12th century", not "12th". You would, however, be correct in writing "X is from the mid-12th century", as "mid-" is a hyphenated prefix. If I am wrong, or if you find a guideline that shows that the second example requires a hyphen after "early", I would like to know about it. Happy editing! Christhe spelleryack02:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
wikimedia.org.
