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Administrators' newsletter – May 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2024).

Administrator changes

readded Nyttend
removed

Bureaucrat changes

removed Nihonjoe

CheckUser changes

readded Joe Roe

Oversight changes

removed GeneralNotability

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Partial action blocks are now in effect on the English Wikipedia. This means that administrators have the ability to restrict users from certain actions, including uploading files, moving pages and files, creating new pages, and sending thanks. T280531

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Eric Sievers

On 8 May 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Eric Sievers, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Eric Sievers helped the San Diego Chargers set an NFL record for receptions by tight ends on a team? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Eric Sievers. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Eric Sievers), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

WaggersTALK 00:02, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Citogenesis- you replying to my topic 'Overzealous editing to have article in the news section of the main page'

Thank you for relying to the topic 'Wikipedia talk:In the news/Archive 110#Overzealous editing to have article in the news section of the main page'

When Louis Gossett Jr died I forgot to put a project of his named Backstairs at the White House in the lede. I didn't pick up on it right away, but at one point I did notice most obituaries weren't mentioning it.

Your reply was an eye opener. Yes I did notice things like that while the user didn't lie, the person would put a completely false citation to confirm a project.

This is something I had to correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Louis_Gossett_Jr.&diff=prev&oldid=1220827473 The citation did not mention that specific project.

Louis Gossett Jr. was a wonderful artist/actor and much of his later work was overlooked. I just think the user wanted to highlight, but there are many strange edits.

Filmman3000 (talk) 05:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

@Filmman3000: Thanks for the message. I'm sure sometimes it's an honest mistake, while other times it appears to just be leaving a citation to give the appearance that WP:ITNQUALITY is met. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 15:28, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
@Bagumba I think the user wanted Gossett to be in the WP:ITNQUALITY, and wanted the media to pick up on his later work.
But the user didn't do it right, if I can't pick up on something I leave it blank.
I am looking at the user's page and history, it appears the user has a history of rushing to pages about the dearly departed to have them in the news section. I am looking at the M. Emmet Walsh page and there is similar pattern of having several citation for one sentence, but I don't know if that user used random citations to put forward forgotten projects. Filmman3000 (talk) 03:30, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
@Filmman3000: If you believe it is a consistent issue with a user, consider addressing it directly with them per Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, ideally with some diffs of the edits in question. If that doesn't lead anywhere, perhaps tagging such pages and commenting at WP:ITNC would provide them an incentive to improve, resulting in more timely postings of nominated items.—Bagumba (talk) 06:35, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Yes I will address the user directly at one point Filmman3000 (talk) 04:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

What you are saying over there makes a lot of sense to me, and you are articulating it better than I could have. Since it started at WikiProject Baseball, but the topic is really larger in scope than that, what's the procedure for starting a request for input on defining some sort of policy regarding this? I know you noticed the topic I started at WT:SPORTS, so should I start a new, more formal request for discussion there? I've never attempted anything like this, so I'm looking for guidance from more experienced people. Thanks.Fred Zepelin (talk) 20:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fred Zepelin: I've never campaigned for a new guideline, though I may have boldly tweaked a few or started a talk discussion. Often, some are against guidelines being too prescriptive, and this would be a very niche area. This is not always followed, but WP:PROPOSAL says:

Most commonly, a new policy or guideline documents existing practices, rather than proposing a change to what experienced editors already choose to do.

You might just want to see if an agreement can be reached in baseball that you're satisfied with. Then you can boldly expand it to other projects incrementally, and iteratively discuss if objections come up. That might be more collaborative, and avoid people resisting simply because they feel its been shoved down their throat. That said, there is no single recipe for this. Good luck, and feel free to contact me any time. —Bagumba (talk) 03:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I do feel like keeping it just to baseball articles is a weird line to draw - like, the article where the other editor objected was the Japan Series, and he moved a discussion to the baseball talk page. I would've done it at Sports, where I started the other topic you replied to. I'll try reading some more policy pages to figure it out. Thanks for the help. Fred Zepelin (talk) 03:52, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
@Fred Zepelin: Sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen can spoil the stew too. But it can help to expand the audience sometimes. Best. —Bagumba (talk) 04:35, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

User creating the same article over and over again

Hi. This user has created Rangimarie Dougall-Mita multiple times since 2023, with the page either being deleted or moved to draft space (most recent one here). Each time they have created the article, it has been of the same quality: one line lead with an infobox and no sources. Talk page notices don't appear to be having any effect. Is there a way to stop a specific page from being created? Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:SALTing the title is an option, but it's somewhat excessive if its just an issue with one account. There also a partial block, blocking an account from all edits on a page(s). Being that it's been a year since the last one, I'd say wait and assume they get the message this time. Let me know if that isnt the case. —Bagumba (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

New Max Arosev sock

That Eoek account is a new sock of Max Arosev. They made some minor edits, but their significant edits are the same as the ones added by the last sock, Xkpsy. JimKaatFan (talk) 20:07, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@JimKaatFan: It might help to expedite the SPI if you could add some smoking-gun diffs there, showing this editor is acting the same as past socks. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 20:50, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Will give it a shot. JimKaatFan (talk) 20:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
Added some diffs. Can you look, offer criticism/advice? JimKaatFan (talk) 22:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
@JimKaatFan: Looks like enough for someone not familiar with the editor to consider. Always good to have WP:DUCK to fall back on if CU turns up nothing. I'll leave the rest to the SPI regulars. —Bagumba (talk) 00:45, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

International and G-League awards in NBA player infoboxes

Hi Bagumba, has there been any sort of consensus or discussion regarding international and/or G-League awards in NBA player infoboxes? I searched keywords like "international" and "G-League" into the WT:NBA archives and was unable to find anything, and WP:NBAHIGHLIGHTS is similarly silent on these matters. If they haven't been discussed before, I'll probably start new threads at WT:NBA at some point to workshop a consensus. Any other advice about this would be welcomed, thanks. Left guide (talk) 07:19, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

@Left guide: Nothing specifically that I can recall. For intl, WT:BASKETBALL is the more appropriate venue. In all cases, I think people often assume (right or wrong) that what's notable for the NBA must be the case for other leagues too. I have my doubts about whatever the G League is doing recently for their "all-star game". —Bagumba (talk) 08:24, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for responding. Ironically, I had the same thoughts you did about int'l players who came to the NBA, but unfortunately as evidenced by WP:HOOPS#Articles, there's not even a player manual of style formulated by that project. I like the general idea of what's there at WP:NBAHIGHLIGHTS to use as a reference point and build from that. Left guide (talk) 08:36, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
@Left guide: I don't edit much with intl leagues, but my biggest peave is dumbing down (probably by one specific editor) to something like "French League champion" instead of using the actual league's name. For example, Boris Diaw, where LNB Pro A Best Young Player is also piped to "French League Rising Star". Good luck. —Bagumba (talk) 08:53, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
Oh wow, I had no idea that type of thing occurs, those look like WP:OR (particularly the "Rising Star" one) and in some ways reeks of Americentrism, in my opinion anyways. Probably an opportunity to chip away at systemic bias, even if only a little. That'd be like if Nowitzki's infobox said "USA League champion" with a pipe link to the 2011 NBA Finals. I admittedly don't know much about other international leagues other than they're all essentially "lower" than the NBA in terms of overall talent. Anyways, I think that's enough for now, thanks for the chat. Left guide (talk) 09:37, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

DYK for Don Johnson (basketball)

On 5 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Don Johnson (basketball), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Cypress College basketball coach Don Johnson, who was an All-American at UCLA, developed two players with minimal experience who later played for his alma mater and set records in the NBA? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Don Johnson (basketball). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Don Johnson (basketball)), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 00:03, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2024).

Administrator changes

readded Graham Beards
removed

Bureaucrat changes

removed

Oversight changes

removed Dreamy Jazz

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The Nuke feature, which enables administrators to mass delete pages, will now correctly delete pages which were moved to another title. T43351

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you unprotect Hedo Turkoglu please?

The protecting admin (who has been inactive for five years with only 50 edits since 2012 and de-sysopped for inactivity in 2020) applied indefinite semi-protection back in 2010 for what appears to have been a fleeting WP:SPORTSTRANS dispute based on the summary, which seems excessive. Left guide (talk) 10:20, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Left guide: Done. —Bagumba (talk) 10:33, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
There's also Matt Barnes and Boris Diaw if you're up for it, similar situations from the same admin. Left guide (talk) 21:57, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
@Left guide: Done. —Bagumba (talk) 03:50, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Dan Hurley needs protection

Until the Lakers saga comes to resolution. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 20:07, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Someone else got to it. —Bagumba (talk) 22:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Can you protect it again? It expired Rikster2 (talk) 18:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Zach Edey

I had put the updated states and information on Zach Edey's page back in April.. I realize some of it should have been cited in hindsight but most of it is just basic ncaa statistics and game logs that are readily available to the public and free to share without citation. Seanmorton1997 (talk) 02:21, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Seanmorton1997: Hi there. Close paraphrasing is still plagiarism, even if you had cited it. I advise you to re-read the pointers on your talk page. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 05:10, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

List of NBA champions

Can you please bump up the protection to semi? It's on pending changes, but basically every edit by IPs this month has gotten reverted, including nonsense like this. Left guide (talk) 03:31, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Can you also consider blocking the IP? They're back at Western Conference (NBA), and if I revert them there, I bet they'll attack another article. Not really in the mood for this silly cat-and mouse game, and I doubt the WP:AIV regulars know enough about sports to recognize it as purely disruptive/vandalism. Left guide (talk) 03:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
@Left guide: Done. Thanks. —Bagumba (talk) 06:18, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Independent assessment of article

Hey. Is there a way to request an independent assessment of an existing article? For example, an article that is a niche topic and has a small number of contributors? Thanks. DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

@DaHuzyBru: Are you referring to Wikipedia:Content assessment i.e. B, C, Start, etc? Ask a WikiProject related to the page, or try Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedia/Assessment § Requesting an assessment. That said, WP:ASSESS also says: Generally speaking, all editors, including editors who have written or improved an article, are encouraged to boldly set any quality rating that they believe is appropriate ... —Bagumba (talk) 05:38, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Damn, sorry, I thought that phrasing might lead to a misunderstanding. I actually mean whether there is an avenue for requesting an independent editor/admin to help with copyediting an article. I'm not helping the situation at Franklin Bulls with my involvement, so it would be great if someone organically was able to review the page to help me out. Last year when I raised concerns with the content of the page, I tried to cover all bases by posting at WikiProject Basketball, article talk page and user talk page. It was not well received by the user at the time and their successor carries that resentment. DaHuzyBru (talk) 06:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) @DaHuzyBru: If you're seeking an avenue for requesting an independent editor to help with copyediting an article, then WP:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests may be of value, though it looks like the size of the queue there might cause the wait time to be about two months for a request to be fulfilled. Meanwhile, I can pitch in with some copy edits at the Franklin Bulls article. Left guide (talk) 07:46, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
I appreciate the info and your contributions. It would be good to have others add maintenance tags where appropriate as well – there are a couple of unsourced or poorly sourced sections. My previous attempts adding header tags or "citation needed" tags has led to undesirable reactions. DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
@Left guide I see that user just reverted your subsection name change. I knew they would do that. Is there a WP policy that stipulates section name guidelines? DaHuzyBru (talk) 05:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
@DaHuzyBru: There is MOS:HEADINGS. This is an example of a straight-forward specific question that could be a thread of what the section title should be, listing the options, and discussing the merits of each, with a poll if necessary. —Bagumba (talk) 19:28, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
@DaHuzyBru: Another possbility might be to ask Wikipedia:WikiProject Auckland or Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand for input, on the chance someone there might have knowledge or interest. I can appreciate you not being presumptuous that you are in the right. At the same time, you might be also be one of the few experts in this area too, so the possibility exists that if you don't take the initiative, nobody else will either. No pressure, this is all voluntary, but I'm trying to be realistic for this niche topic. Going back to WP:ONUS, if one person believes something should be included, and another disagrees, and nobody else has an opinion, there is no consensus for its inclusion. Perhaps the article needs to be addressed piecemeal on the talk page, with multiple threads on very specific content, asking "include, or don't include" for each. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 16:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Thanks mate. I agree regarding "if you don't take the initiative, nobody else will", I just don't want to get blocked for edit warring. I have been bold and removed bulk content from the page before. To the user, it's me "removing factual information" and "getting others involved to shut them down". They don't understand the purpose of citing policies – to them it's "buzz words". It's a clear case of WP:NOTHERE.
How would I go about initiating the addressing of specific content? Starting a new thread on the talk page about a specific section would have merit but only if I could convince others to make comment on the validity of my points, otherwise it's just back and forth between me and them, which usually ends up unconstructive and combative. Last year, I pointed out where the content was lacking and asked them to consider cleaning it up themselves. The user has demonstrated their distain for me and does not appreciate my comments on their content.
For example, I believe the "Hosting the Breakers" section is trivial and has no relevance to the team itself – their home stadium hosted a one-off Australian NBL game, big deal. It's been written by a fan that is closely connected to the team and the region that feels pride in that fact. DaHuzyBru (talk) 02:53, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
@DaHuzyBru: You can have a discussion on whether "Hosting" meets WP:PROPORTION or not w.r.t. sources. The WP:ONUS is on the person adding content to establish consensus for its inclusion. If it's just "back and forth" between two editors, it's possible there is no consensus, depending on the strength of arguments. If it's only 2 people, using Wikipedia:Third opinion is also an option. If you happen to reach a deadlock on a specific thread, feel free to notify me and I can take a look and potentially moderate. Good luck. —Bagumba (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Team Whistle

Notice

The article Team Whistle has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Advertising or other spam without any relevant or encyclopedic content

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Agnieszka653 (talk) 21:41, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed protection for Klay Thompson?

It's semi-protected but there are several newer auto-confirmed users prematurely changing his team (I counted four different users in a two-hour span) who have all been reverted, just a heads-up. Left guide (talk) 22:20, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Done. —Bagumba (talk) 11:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – July 2024

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2024).

Administrator changes

added
removed

Technical news

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:58, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Question

Is there a Wikipedia policy for Biographies of deceased people like how y'all have a Wikipedia policy for Biographies of living people? ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 15:30, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

@ReallyAmazingDude13: Hi there. There is Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons § Recently dead or probably dead.—Bagumba (talk) 21:03, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you much for the quick action in blocking a troublesome newbie. C. 50.80.174.107 (talk) 14:31, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

You're welcome. —Bagumba (talk) 04:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia Wizard Question

What was the Wikipedia Wizard that y'all had that had a Officer wearing a red police hat as the Wizard's logo? ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 01:11, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

Gotta say, you lost me there. —Bagumba (talk) 12:55, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
(talk page watcher) @ReallyAmazingDude13: might you be referring to something related to WP:TWINKLE? The logo there is an officer wearing a red police hat. Left guide (talk) 04:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)
Yeah that's the one ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Requesting rights to edit a page name and to insert images

Dear Bagumba,

I hope you are well. I would like to make some changes to the Wikipedia page 'Lala Rukh (Activist)'. I work at the Estate of Lala Rukh to manage the late artist and activist's archives. our goal is to make information on her more accessible. I have edited the text on the already existing page 'Lala Rukh (Activist)'. I would like to correct the title of the page to either just Lala Rukh or to Lala Rukh (Artist and Activist) as that is more accurate. Along with that, I also want to include pictures from her archives in her biography, which I am unable to do currently. If you could grant me more editor rights or administrative rights, I would like to make these necessary changes.

Thank You,

Estateoflalarukh Estateoflalarukh (talk) 12:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@Estateoflalarukh: I left you some pointers on your talk page regarding editing with a conflict of interest as well as working with images. I also see that you have received
some feedback at User talk:Clovermoss § Requesting rights to edit a page name and to insert images. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 14:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Barnstars

Who can give Barnstars and how are they earned? ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 23:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@ReallyAmazingDude13: See WP:BARNSTARS. —Bagumba (talk) 14:23, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
Do you need to be in good standing; no warnings or anything in order to receive one? ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 14:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
@ReallyAmazingDude13: You can ask at the related talk page Wikipedia talk:Barnstars if anything seems unclear. —Bagumba (talk) 14:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
@Bagumba: Got that loud and clear. ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 15:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sports News source question

Is CBS News considered Generally reliable source of information relating to NBA Free Agent signings? ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 15:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @ReallyAmazingDude13: On its own, no. Sports transactions (such as NBA free agent signings) are held to a very high standard of sourcing on Wikipedia due to a chronic pattern in sports journalism of unconfirmed transaction rumors not coming to fruition. This typically means a transaction needs to be confirmed by the league or the involved teams for Wikipedia to reliably report it as a fact. Please see WP:SPORTSTRANS for guidance on handling sports transactions using news sources. Left guide (talk) 20:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
@ReallyAmazingDude13: A key part of the reliable source guideline is WP:CONTEXTMATTERS:

The reliability of a source depends on context. Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content.

In that sense, we don't assume that even a generally reliable site like ESPN is reliable for everything. Generally, be wary of breaking news, esp. if you don't see a named team member being quoted e.g. "[anonymous] sources say". As Left guide mentioned, do check out WP:SPORTSTRANS. —Bagumba (talk) 20:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Stuck in a stump

I am stuck in a stump as Seth Curry was announced by the NBA eariler around 10:05 PM EST that he has resigned with the Hornets but when I go on the 2024-25 Hornets season, I see that he is on the Subtractions sub-category of the Free agency category as the Hornets did waived Seth Curry around late-June 2024 but since he has officially resigned with the Hornets, I'm not sure what to do. ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 02:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) @ReallyAmazingDude13: What I've often seen sports editors do when updating roster templates and charts like this is to simply remove the newly-erroneous entry while attaching the transaction source in the edit summary to justify and explain the removal. It's a normal editing situation during sports off-seasons governed by WP:COMMONSENSE rather than any codified policy. Left guide (talk) 03:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
@Left guide I'm confused by what you mean ReallyAmazingDude13 (talk) 19:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Hounding and personal attacks towards me

What are your suggestions in dealing with stuff like this? I have previously reported this editor for personal attacks at ANI, but no measures were taken by administrators. This editor was also discussed at another editor's talk page, and has then continued its crap at Talk:Braden Holtby#Former goaltender status and has also made accusations on its own talk page towards me. I am at loss and cannot decide where to report this editor. In addition, I wrote directly to you, because most of other senior administrators seem to have almost stopped making regular edits. – sbaio 15:45, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

@Sbaio: Hi there. I'm not familiar with the interactions between you two. I'll list a few options, which you can decide if they are applicable or not to your situation:
  • I assume you're already tried to resolve this WP:CONDUCTDISPUTE 1-on-1 with them?
  • From WP:PA: Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence, usually in the form of diffs and links. If they have a serious concern, they should be able to provide diff.
  • If they don't take action on your alleged behavior (e.g. noticeboard), and are unwilling to AGF and move on, those side remarks appear unproductive. If you can show it's persistent, perhaps the community would agree to an WP:IBAN.
  • For content disputes, I'd involve the related WikiProject to get more opinions if 1-on-1 discussions go in circles.
Good luck.—Bagumba (talk) 21:40, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks for suggestions. Editor's last message on its own talk page means that probably none of the suggested steps will be needed for some time (but I do not believe it). In addition, the editor copied a bunch of messages from my talk page history without even knowing the context of those disputes so it naturally raises questions of WP:NOTHERE and WP:CIR. A question – are other editors allowed to copy content from my talk page or its history? I was sure that WP:TPG or WP:OWNTALK had something about it, but I could not find anything. – sbaio 07:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
@Sbaio: Re: copying talk page content, one constructive reason might be as part of dispute resolution. If you feel it's being done unconstructively, it should be handled as a conduct dispute, with diffs provided, as needed. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Ben Graham lead sentence

Hey. How would you apply the lead discussion to Ben Graham (footballer)? Do you think it needs to be amended? DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:22, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Is this too much? an Australian former professional Australian rules football and American football player DaHuzyBru (talk) 09:23, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
@DaHuzyBru: The general applicable guideline is MOS:NATIONALITY, in which a person's nationality is generally in the lead. We shouldn't assume that readers know anything about the sport or the backgrounds of its players. That linked discussion dealt with American football and MOS:TIES, where football in American English refers to American football. However, football in Australia seems to be a toss-up between Australian rules and soccer (Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (sportspeople) § Disambiguating with (football) for football players}, so the full Australian rules football seem necessary, as in your example. At Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 12 § define "football" and nationality, someone suggested using something like an Australian former professional player of Australian rules football and American football, which I personally think flows slightly better. —Bagumba (talk) 14:52, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. I don't mind that suggestion, however I see it has been changed from that before [1]. Having "Australian" in Australian rules football does make it difficult, whereby the code name hijacks the lead sentence. Then later when they retire, it becomes "former Australian rules footballer". I know you have spent a lot of time and effort on "American former" to overcome "former American". I did start a discussion here but I think I will definitely stick to the basketball space. Too much for me! DaHuzyBru (talk) 15:28, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
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