User talk:Bob1960evens/Archive2007

Canal icons

Hi Bob1960evens. Thanks for the pale pink railway bridge icons. I tried to make one yesterday by editing the svg code; but it did not work. Well, it did work in a way because I've loaded Inkscape on to this machine and all my saved files are OK; trying to upload it back onto Wikipedia is where it has gone wrong. I'll use one of yours now.Pyrotec 18:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bob1960evens. I've stuck four green lock series icons in Category:Screenshots of Wikipedia, they start with the name sequence BSicon_uLOCKS, because I was not sure what to call them or where the place them. They have the same name as the four "blue" svg icons, followed by _green.svg .Pyrotec 21:02, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I did not know how to rename them so I've uploaded them with new _ug_ names (one is in use on the Dudley Canal). I'll request the old ones be deleted. I need, later, some green double tunnel icons, so that is next week's project, unless someone else gets there first.Pyrotec 21:50, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, typo on my part, now fixed (mistyped it as BSIicon-).Pyrotec 22:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Historical Waterways questions

IMO i think the Eurobarge should possibly be mentioned in both, but it might depend on the date of when they happened.

For the photo, a modern photo is okay to use, just as long as it shows, say for example, where the River Don Navigation was, or something to put this into context or something related to the navigation, when talking about the RDN. I hope this helps. Sorry i have taken so long to get back as i was on a break. Simply south 20:29, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Aqueduct icon

Hi. I've deleted the odd maps from my sandbox, so go ahead with the deletion. By the way, what does BROAD have to do with aqueducts. Am I missing something? Oosoom ^Talk to me 22:11, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

It is really B-road, for a minor road, with AROAD for a major road and MROAD for a motorway. The general scheme of things seems to be an initial 'u' for a canal, then a description of the item that crosses the canal (in English or German) and then a 'u' if the canal goes under the feature and an 'o' if it goes over the feature.Bob1960evens 22:36, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Understand now, although it is bound to also be used for C roads (yellow). Well done on all the maps too. :) Oosoom ^Talk to me 05:00, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Canal icons again

Hi there Bob. Great work on the canal icons. I have some spare time and wanted to contribute, would you mind if I submitted some icons to fill in the blanks? Also, might I also make some suggestions on icons that might be of use, such as overspills, sluices, dams, etc? Parrot of Doom 10:10, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

By all means. We are trying to establish a naming convention, so all the names start with BSicon_ and then have a 'u' for canal (I think this might be German for underground railway, but never mind), the name in uppercase and sometimes a direction in lowercase. So for a dam, it would typically be called BSicon_uDAMr.svg. The direction letters are a little bit confusing, in that they use 'r' and 'l' for right and left, but to my mind half of them have been used the wrong way round, and then 'a' and 'e' or 'f' and 'g' for the forward and back directions. (These are German again, I think). For icons where the canal section goes across the page horizontally, rather than vertically, an 'H' is used, so BSicon_uHDAM.svg. Finally, the letters at the top of the columns go immediately after the 'u', so an unwatered dam would be BSicon_ugDAM.svg. The case of the letters is important. Then the icon should be assigned to "Category:Icons for Canal descriptions" if they are on Wikipedia and "Category:Icons for canal descriptions" if they are on Commons. I have not really worked out how to put them on Commons yet, myself. Colours are #003399 for dark blue, #6281c0 for light blue and #2ca05a for green. When you want the icons to appear on the template, you edit it and put a 'j' in the appropriate column (presumably for ja). Have fun. Bob1960evens 16:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll have a play around, firstly probably by expanding on the icons already there :) Parrot of Doom 18:00, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok it works, I added a 'g' to one of the dry docks. I'll do some more. Parrot of Doom 18:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you have any suggestions as to a set of icons to show culverts, overflows, supply water, and other narrow waterways related to the canal network, but not navigable by design? I was thinking about this as the MBB canal is supplied by a feeder canal from Elton Reservoir, it wasn't designed for boats but it would seem inappropriate to show it on the map using the regular icons. Parrot of Doom 19:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Rating of Neath and Tennant Canal page

Hi Bob, Thanks for the note. There is a lot of discussion about this topic on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Waterways#Assesment vs stub class template. As I did the assessment, I should have - according to my view - removed the stub (and I failed to spot it - sorry), but other views have been expressed. Feel free to add your voice to the discussion.Pyrotec 19:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Removing No references tag

The Calder and Hebble Navigation page had a tag to say there were no references. I have expanded the history section, and included my sources, and have added a source to some of the other stuff. Whose responsibility is it to remove the No references tag? Can I do it? Bob1960evens 22:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can remove such tags once they are obsolete. Your great additions rendered the article partially sourced. However since much of it remains unsourced, I changed the tag to {{refimprove}}.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:56, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Erdington Hall Tunnel

Hi Bob. Do you have any info on the Erdington Hall bit of the Birmingham and Fazeley Canal? You added it as a tunnel to the icon map and have given it a length of 150 yd. Googling it reveals little but that is a factory built over the canal. Photo suggests it's open at one side [1]. I'm not sure it should be shown as a tunnel unless a waterways map suggests so?  :) Oosoom ^Talk to me 16:24, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Oosoom. As it says on the B&F discussion page, I originally used a misc feature, but the Waterways World Cruising Guide says "a highlight must be the canal's disappearance beneath an enormous factory, built out over the water, with the result that today's boater is treated to a rather unusual experience of a 150yd excursion through semi-darkness ... a sort of Tunnel of Gloom". I knew it was open at one side (I think I probably found the same picture), but you cannot see the sky, so it seemed crazy to create a new symbol, and it does say it is a factory built over the canal on the map. If you can think of a better symbol, please do. Bob1960evens 22:08, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Shrewsbury Canal map

Great work on the map for Shrewsbury Canal. What did you use as your source? Hmallett 14:12, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I started from various maps on the Shrewsbury Canal website, trawled over and over streetmap.co.uk, which has much more details than google, then read various accounts, including one by a man who used to work the canal, reminising, again from the sncanal website, then found various other descriptive sources for the bits not covered by the maps, such as the Trench branch. I am still one lock missing, which I think is at Newport, but am not sure yet. Bob1960evens 14:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, I was considering doing a routemap based on the sncanal maps too! You beat me to it though, and I think you've done a better job than I would have. I shall have a look at streetmap to see what you mean... Hmallett 12:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I just noticed you did a map for Chester Canal. Then I looked at your contribs! Seems your the canal map king! Hmallett 09:55, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the kind comments. Bob1960evens 23:33, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Huddersfield Broad Canal

Just spotted your map entry to the article, very nice! However please note the 'Loco lift bridge' is actually a 'Road lift bridge' as per my photo on the Turnbridge article. Richard Harvey 13:14, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the note, Richard. I knew it was a road bridge, but it is called the Turnbridge Loco Lift Bridge in every reference I can find. (Nicholson Waterways guide, Kirkless MBC website, Waterscape.com, etc), and the name seems to stem from its shape, rather than its function. I have added a link from the map to your excellent photo. Bob1960evens 20:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Overlayed icons

Hi Bob. Are you aware of the new technique of creating new icons on the fly by overlaying one symbol on another? This is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:Route diagram template.

For example, the digram shows a conventional line on the left, and one on the right using symbols created by the new overlay feature. The code has unfortunately been reverted from the B3 template (hopefully to return) but is functional on most of the rest.

Icon overlay demo
showing fictitious new symbol in red overlaid constructions (right line) original single icon (left line)

I have added a few lock and movable bridge symbols to the Commons category. An interesting development which could save us work? Oosoom ^Talk 16:51, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

It looks interesting, though somehow it has added a category to my page. I'll take a closer look soon. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:09, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I think I have got the hang of the overlaid icons, as I have now used them in several places. Do you think we need to show them on the Waterways Legend somehow, so people know what is available? Bob1960evens (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes. They I think they should be shown, and also their use demonstrated somewhere? I was wondering how best to do this and started playing in my sandbox a while ago. I have moved all the icons to Commons:Category:Icons for canal descriptions/overlay icons. Oosoom ^Talk 21:12, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Canal (& river) maps

Hi, Thanks for editing Westport Canal. I'm really impressed by the maping function you've incorporate which puts the coordinates onto googlemaps - can you point me to an explanation of the code as I think they would help on all Category:Canals in Somerset and Category:Rivers of Somerset.— Rod ^talk 20:57, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't know if there is an explanation anywhere. When I started using the mapping tables, I just copied the one from the Wyrley and Essington Canal, pasted it into my sandbox, and played about with it. My understanding is:

First line declares the table, and that it is displayed collapsed:

{{PoIgb start|type=collapsed}}

Second line (repeated)

{{Text for first column | latitude | longitude | Grid reference | comment }}

Penultimate line - end of table

{{PoIgb end}}

Finally the {{kml}} tag gives you the option to display all the points on google maps. I use streetmap.co.uk to work out the latitude and longitude, since you can just click on the feature you want, and use the Click here to convert/measure coordinates feature to get them. I'm sure there must be a way in google maps to do the same but I haven't found it. I hope that helps. It looks like this: Bob1960evens (talk) 22:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Point	Coordinates (Links to map resources)	OS Grid Ref	Notes
River Parrett Junction	51.009°N 2.832°W / 51.009; -2.832 (River Parrett Junction)	ST417235	Rivers Isle and Parrett
Midelney Lock	51.008°N 2.834°W / 51.008; -2.834 (Midelney Lock)	ST416234	disused
River Parrett	51.009°N 2.832°W / 51.009; -2.832 (River Parrett)	ST417235	Junction

Note that if you put wikilinks into the PoIgb template then you also need to put |name=point name after the last parameter to stop the table being messed up. See Template:PoIgb. It's quite easy to get coordinates from Google Maps and Google Satellite. Scroll around until you can see the target feature. Double click on it - it will move to the centre of the screen. Click on Link to this page just above the top right of the map. A pink box appears with two long strings of code. Right click on the top one and copy to the clipboard. You can paste this string wherever needed, but you only want the second set of numbers that look like coordinates (after where is says UTF8&ll=) so you need to delete the rubbish to the left and right. Oosoom ^Talk 15:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

So: {{PoIgb|[[River Parrett]]|51.009|-2.832|ST417235|Junction|name=River Parrett}} seems to work. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:56, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Bob, Well done on the Dudley tunnel map. It looks a bit strange to my eyes, being stretched and shrunk, but no doubt I will get used to it in the end.Pyrotec (talk) 22:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Pyrotec, Thanks. Feel free to adjust it as required. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Teddington Lock

Wow - well done (only 44 more locks to go !!) Motmit (talk) 08:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Seriously, I don't want to task you but I can pick out the most interesting locks for you - you can probably work it out for yourself as they happen to have reaches that link to the canal system.Motmit (talk) 20:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I don't really know much about the Thames, although we cruised it twice when we were children. If you had a list, I would be very happy to have a go at producing some diagrams. If the articles are part of the UK Waterways project, you could add the mapneeded=yes designation to the talk page, but then I might not find which ones are yours, so by all means, supply a list. Bob1960evens (talk) 20:57, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks - I suggest these as most interesting

Sunbury Lock - 2 locks and portage, major bifurcation, and link to Wey Navigation etc - Done

Sonning Lock - link to Kennet navigation and a major marina and watersport complex - Done

Osney Lock - link to Oxford Canal and criss-crossing channels - Done

King's Lock - link to Oxford Canal via Dukes Stream - Done

Regards Motmit (talk) 20:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

(1)Pure genius Motmit (talk) 16:44, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I have added Culham Lock to the list. I am waiting for a map book to arrive before doing Osney. I cannot work out where all the weirs are from my existing sources. Bob1960evens (talk) 13:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Culham was a good "spot", but I thought Osney would be a bit of a challenge. Boulter's and Cookham would be good ones, and the York Stream round there somewhere is a mystery waiting to be revealed. Molesey lock only needs a few islands between the top and bottom locks which you have already done, and most of the others are relatively straightforward. I wonder if you could help out with another item. I don't know if navigation transit markers are used elsewhere than the Thames, but they are black and white posts with open red triangles on the top and an illustration would be useful. Anyway thanks again and well done.Motmit (talk) 18:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I haven't seen anything about navigation transit markers, but there are two towers at Polperro here which are used for the same purpose of checking the speed of ships. Bob1960evens (talk) 20:35, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. The principle is the same but not on such a large scale. I think the transit markers are aimed at cabin cruisers, so if they are anywhere else it is likely to be on the Broads. Good stuff on Osney. Is it possible to copy Osney to Iffley and Kings to Godstow as your charts start at the downstream lock? I would do it but I think they are identified uniquely. Generally Thames locks are associated with the reach upstream rather than downstream, but in these cases the waters are so complicated it is probably necessary to include the downstream lock. Many thanks Motmit (talk) 22:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I have altered the maps so the titles can be adjusted, and put them onto the extra pages. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:56, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Just a quibble - I think Bridge Eyot and Grass Eyot are upstream of the Road bridge at Boulters. You will notice this weir is of interest to the Kayaking community as is Hurley. More up your street I think is that the reach above St John's Lock at Lechlade connects to the disused Thames and Severn Canal, although this isnt in the text yet. Well done Motmit (talk) 17:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for spotting the mistake. I got the wrong bridge. Now fixed. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:26, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - Re Platts Eyot. This arises because the description covered first the right bank, then the left bank, and so the island was left in the middle. The charts make it all much clearer and I will probably do some redrafting. Incidentally is there some way of differentiating weirs designed as kayak runs? I'm sure User:Jamsta would appreciate these being identified. Regards (after the battle of the Bournes comes the Colne puzzle which I gave up on) Motmit (talk) 15:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I could not find an illustration of transit markers, but have drawn a diagram.Bob1960evens (talk) 15:29, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Absolute perfection (except in real life the triangles are usually bent out of shape - but lets ignore that) Motmit (talk) 15:35, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

St John's Lock

Well Done. Hope you have enjoyed your virtual trip up the river as much as I do. Regards Motmit (talk) 13:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I have found it very interesting. I adjusted the River Cole at Lechlade, as it appears below the bridge at Buscot Lock, rather than below St Johns Bridge. I wondered if I ought to finish the task off by doing Richmond Lock. Bob1960evens (talk) 13:45, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi - I think you picked up a few other errors on the way which is all to the good. I found the "Crossings" and "Islands" lists provide useful cross-checks as well. Richmond is a bit of an oddity, but Tideway covers everything below Teddington if you are interested.Motmit (talk) 14:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)