User talk:John from Idegon/Archive 58

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WP:CRYSTAL on Easton, PA

Easton, PA

I looked over WP:CRYSTAL before I included that information about DSC City. I've just read it over again since you cited it. The first clause is certainly ambiguous yet I provided three sources alongside my addition so I figured it would add credibility to the post. If you took the time to read my sources it's arguably "almost certain to take place". If anything I felt that addition was verifiable and of "sufficiently wide interest" to be included as a small mention in the article. Clause #5 on WP:CRYSTAL argues that DSC City should be included as part of the larger topic of Easton. I'd argue that WP:NOTNEWS would have been a better qualifier for omission, but even then I feel my addition would be allowed based on the information included especially when you look at the "in proportion" section, as it would add economic activity to the area.

Anyway, I notice you do a lot of rollbacks without notifying the editor (which is the main reason I'm leaving this talk page post, simply putting WP:CRYSTAL, WP:NOTNEWS isn't helpful to me, the editor) so I'm asking you here why it was removed.

Semmendinger (talk) 13:14, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

You added new content. I'm disputing its utility. Start a discussion on the article talk page to find a concensus on what if anything should be included about this. John from Idegon (talk) 16:03, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
I think that's a pretty poor reason since articles are meant to be expanded. While the talk page is important we don't need it for minute occurrences, and it seems you'll vote it down anyway. I'm out of my league here, you have the power so I'll back off. Semmendinger (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Yes they are....With good concise copy that is relevant to the world. A completed construction project may merit a sentence; a proposed construction project, referenced solely to local sources, that isn't even certain, merits nothing and definitely not a whole section. I have in my possession a document that details the exact placement of every traffic sign, culvert, bridge and intersection on every mile of state maintained highway in the state of Indiana. Should I add all that info to Indiana? What may be important to the community is not necessarily what is important about the community. John from Idegon (talk) 08:07, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Teahouse revert

Hi. Can I ask why you reverted my comment at the Teahouse? You didn't explain in the edit summary and I would like to think that my comment was not vandalism! Cordless Larry (talk) 07:53, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Fat fingered Android editing. The rollback button on one edit is way too close to the diff button on the next. I've self reverted, and if you ever see a rollback without an edit summary from me, it's safe to assume that is what happened. I never use rollback. My apologies. John from Idegon (talk) 07:57, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
No worries. That happens to me sometimes, too. I rarely use rollback intentionally these days and often wonder whether I should just request to have rollback rights taken away from me. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:02, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
A couple of the more advanced editing assistance devices require rollback to function. But I like good old twinkle. John from Idegon (talk) 08:11, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I've also just discovered this, which removes the rollback button from your watchlist, while leaving it in diffs. Cordless Larry (talk) 08:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Dude, if you were a girl I'd propose. Thank you so much. John from Idegon (talk) 11:16, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Seriously?

Are we really glorifying high school kids with their own Wikipedia articles now? This kid, a football player, hasn't even started his college career yet. Is he legitimately notable? 32.218.34.42 (talk) 19:20, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately it appears he his. A big write up in the USA Today plus another newspaper story plus the school websites would probably be enough to survive AfD. The sports crowd here now is like the Pokemon crowd was 12 years ago...rabidly protective of their teritory. Same author created another article on a high school kid that doesn't appear to make it. Rabid U of M fan I'd guess. Lived in Ann Arbor at one time...they're fanstics. John from Idegon (talk) 20:45, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, I guess we just need to start padding Wikipedia with National Merit scholars attending Ivy League universities... On another note, are cows notable? (See: World Dairy Expo# Past winners, World Dairy Expo#Past Winners of the Junior Show.) 32.218.34.42 (talk) 20:48, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Ok, here's the issue with that. Article content does not have to be notable, only the subject. There are articles here on specific individual cows believe it or not. I find it trivial, but others may not. To me, it's like listing each individual piece of apparatus a fire department has; a form of fancruft, if you will. This has a source and it is as solid as most of the sources we use for athletic championships. So, yea, I think fighting the inclusion of that would be a losing battle too.
While I have your attention, I need your help with something. Could you take a look at and check your sources for information on Harold S. Vincent High School in Milwaukee? Someone has (for the second time) nominated this stub for good article review. Am I missing something? John from Idegon (talk) 22:15, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Re: cows, I was also thinking along the lines of WP:NOTDIR, and only a couple of the entries have a source. Re: Harold S. Vincent High School, I don't get it either. It seems particularly weird given the edit history of the nominator. I saw your query to Habatchii about it. The response seems a little squirrely, as do some of his other edits. Is there a way to de-nominate an article? 32.218.34.42 (talk) 23:06, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

WPSCH

The kind of school article we've been getting for a couple of years now means we have to take a close look at our schools project, whittling out some of the deadwood, and bringing its focus in line with what's happening these days. Are you game for a shortlist of things to do and match it with mine? Then see hjat we can come up with and how much work it will entail. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:59, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I am. My main direction of late has been pushing removal of content that will never be referencable to independent sources. We need encyclopedia articles on schools, not fan pages or advertising. To that end, I think maybe writing country - specific guidelines might be appropriate. I'd like to see us standardize our sourcing for statistical info. For US articles, some are sourced to the local authority, some are sourced to the state DOE, some are sourced to an aggregator website (usually with the wrong dates) and some are sourced to NCES. It may be time to rethink our privileged notability status. Keep in mind I don't pay much attention to things outside the USA, but here, one of the assumed sources for schools (GNIS) is in the process of going away. Just thinking out loud. Is this the kind of thing you are looking for? Let me know and I'll email you a more detailed short list. John from Idegon (talk) 06:23, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
I've also noticed (mainly from the alerts) that we seem to have much under our umbrella that doesn't belong. John from Idegon (talk) 06:36, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

Two questions on school issues

I'm working on my first school article (draft and working notes: User:Meters/Lazerte high school) Two things I'm not certain about:

  1. The school and the district currently list the school as "M.E. LaZerte", and CBC News and local media also use this spelling. Am I correct in thinking this is sufficient to warrant using this in the title rather than the Wikipedia style of "M. E. LaZerte"?
  2. The school is mainly English, but has small Ukrainian and Mandarin immersion streams. (It also teaches French and Spanish, but not as immersion). Should I list Mandarin and Ukrainian in the infobox "language" field? Meters (talk) 23:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
Just noticed that all of the other Edmonton high school with double initial names have Wikipedia articles following the standard "X. Y." format. Meters (talk) 23:47, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Meters, I would use the name the school and its district uses, then make a redirect for the other just in case. I would leave the languages as you have them.Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:35, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

That's what I would have said too. Thanks Kudpung! Good job, Meters. John from Idegon (talk) 14:28, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks both. Meters (talk) 17:28, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Concord High School (Indiana)

Hi! The U.S. Census Bureau has school district maps for each county. This includes Elkhart County, Indiana and the maps include city limit boundaries (the map was removed by the revert)

The address of the school is "59117 Minuteman Way, Elkhart IN 46517" - It is below County Road 20/East Mishawaka Road, which is the boundary between Elkhart and Dunlap - Dunlap to the South, Elkhart to the north.

Many USPS address "city names" do not reflect the real location of the school (in terms of corporate limits) which is why I like to cite maps when there is a "mismatch". WhisperToMe (talk) 09:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

A detailed map of the Dunlap CDP WhisperToMe (talk) 09:28, 6 December 2016 (UTC)


Townsend Harris High School

Hi John, Regarding the inclusion, or exclusion, of Mortimer V. Schwartz in the Townsend Harris alumni list, he held a patent on an innovative power tool accessory that is in routine usage by mechanics and fabricators around the world. He is also notable for his home being selected by Twiggy, the first international supermodel and a fashion icon of the 1960s, for her fashion shoot in 1967. Mr. Schwartz's New York Times obituary is rather slim, but William Zeck has only his New York Times obituary as a link to satisfy the criteria for notability. Aside from creating a separate wiki page, would the above credentials make him a worthy addition to the Townsend Harris alumni list? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maleagant (talk • contribs) 16:09, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps you are unclear on the unique meaning of "notable" on Wikipedia? Here, "notable" simply means "qualifies to have an article". The general qualification for having an article can be found at WP:GNG. However, there are numerous exceptions for biographies of people in certain fields of endeavor. For example, playing in a top level professional sports league for any length of time (even one play) automatically qualifies a person for an article. This is just one of many exceptions. An exception for having a patent does not exist. Usual practice (and no, I cannot point you to a rule for this because there isn't one. Wikipedia's rules are intentionally vague. Consensus rules for article content, guided by policy and guidelines. Consensus is frequently shown by usual practice.) for school articles is that, unless you can show notability for a person that does not have a pre-existing article by a single reference and attendance by another reference, we usually require that the biographical article get written first. The only way you could do that is if the person in question met an exception to GNG. The guy you are asking about doesn't. Regarding Zeck, and Ripandelli, the references attached to them show they met an exception (Zeck held a state level or higher elected political position and Ripandelli recieved France's highest military decoration, both exceptions to GNG). Hope this clarifies things for you.
Editing Wikipedia is not as simple as our slogan implies, but it is fun, educational and somewhat addicting. I will leave you some info on your talk page to help you get started, including a link to a Q&A forum especially for new editors that was of great help to me when I started. A couple small "educational" points here. When you are talking with another editor about a specific article, it is always helpful to link the article in question. I've edited the title of this section to do that (I also edited your comment slightly by making Zeck's name a Wikilink so I could see if he had an article easily). When ever you communicate on a talk page, you need to sign and date your message by typing four tildes (~~~~). Thanks. If I can ever help, drop me a note here like you just did. Happy editing!

John from Idegon (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2016 (UTC),

Co-coordinator, Wikiproject schools

BBC 12-hour Editathon - large influx of new pages & drafts expected

AfC Reviewers are asked to be especially on the look out 08:00-20:00 UTC (that's local London time - check your USA and AUS times) on Thursday 8 December for new pages. The BBC together with Wikimedia UK is holding a large 12-hour editathon. Many new articles and drafts are expected. See BBC 100 Women 2016: How to join our edit-a-thon. Follow also on #100womenwiki, and please, don't bite the newbies :) (user:Kudpung for NPR. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

RC Patrol-related Proposals in the 2016 Community Wishlist Survey

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Wichita South High School

Watch what you're reverting. Don't just blindly revert 7 edits when you are only questioning one edit. The other 6 were me swapping out the source verifying Tim Elliott's attendance with a more reliable source, fixing the broken citation I broke by switching out the source, and adding more information to the note next to Elliott's name in the notable alumni section that is verified with the source I swapped. I am reverting back to the edit right before I added the information you are questioning while I attempt to locate a source and do not revert because all of the information is verified in the source.

Simply put, pay better attention when rolling a page back to a previous version that you aren't accidentally reverting edits there are no issues with--Rockchalk717 07:29, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Sorry to trouble you but I gotta go...

Can you peek at Waterford_Mott_High_School and see if 'they' have re-added more 'notable's again? I think there is now a second person playing there. I'm at 3RR and gotta leave anyway. Sorry. Shenme (talk) 06:54, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Only two days left...

Hi John,

Community wishlist poll

Getting the tools we need

ONLY TWO DAYS LEFT TO VOTE

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For NPP: Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:34, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

School editor on a rampage

I see you've encountered the school editor on a rampage to remove notable alumni lists carte blanche. While I'm not a fan of such lists, I'm troubled by the rampage, as well as the failure to understand WP:ALUMNI (when the affiliation is sourced in the WP bio article, it doesn't need to be sourced in the school article). The rampage continues; what to do? I'm trying to restore sourced names, but it's taking too long. Deli nk can remove names faster than I can research and re-add them. 32.218.32.82 (talk) 20:18, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps you should tell him about it and reference the fact that I've told him about it too. And perhaps an administrator might make note of this conversation and chime in also. Unless he's edit warring over it, the only other choice is ANI and I really hate dragging anyone there. John from Idegon (talk) 20:26, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
I've already had an unsuccessful conversation with the editor. Is the school wikiproject active? If so, could we just make folks there aware of the situation? 32.218.32.82 (talk) 20:32, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Yes it is. I'm one of the coordinators. I'll post a message there sometime today. John from Idegon (talk) 21:37, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
We can talk about it here. I think it's completely unfair to characterize what I have done as a "rampage". Exaggerations like that are not helpful. And, 32., if our conversation has been unsuccessful, it's only because you have simply failed to respond to me. I've been perfectly willing to engage with both of you and I've politely responded to each of you at Talk:West High School (Bakersfield, California) and on my talk page. But neither of you has responded to me. Deli nk (talk) 13:09, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Reference errors on 11 December

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BLP PROD on Hocine Gaham

Just as an FYI I have removed the BLP PROD you have placed on this article because it contained an external link to a site that was a source for the information in the article, thus making it ineligible under WP:BLPPROD. If you still feel that it should be deleted, I would go to WP:AFD. Best! TonyBallioni (talk) 22:11, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Wondered if that would vount. Live and learn. Thanks. John from Idegon (talk) 23:44, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

Merry Merry

Season's Greetings, John from Idegon!
At this wonderful time of year, I would like to give season’s greetings to all the fellow Wikipedians I have interacted with in the past! May you have a wonderful holiday season! MarnetteD|Talk 17:07, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 December 2016

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ANI close

Thanks for closing that ANI. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to close it myself so I was going to request a close but you were already there. Meters (talk) 19:21, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

As it was a no action close, I doubt anyone would have complained if you closed it. Have a Mercy Christmas my friend. John from Idegon (talk) 23:51, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Holiday Greetings! John

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year!
Thank you for helping make Wikipedia a better place. Blessings. May we all have peace in the coming year. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:54, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Steppenwolf

go to magiccarpetrideinc.com I am one of the original Steppenwolf members and we are trying to stop Steppenwolfman for posting false data on wiki.. His real name is Larry Green and he is now claiming to be a member from 1978-79 under Steppenwolf band members, he was never a member and is in a bogus tribute band out of Bellingham Washington, how about helping us out and deleting him and banning him.. Goldy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lazuruz (talk • contribs) 11:07, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Don't you get that I could have just as easily claimed everything you just did? Again, On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog. Go to WP:ORTS and follow the instructions there. If you're who you say you are, that is where it can be vetted and your concerns dealt with. It cannot be handled on-wiki. The thing about the dog, ya know? Good luck. Your music was the soundtrack of my youth. Hate to think someone's ripping you off. John from Idegon (talk) 11:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

Whisperback

You have new message/s Hello. You have a new message at Kudpung's talk page. 11:56, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

A useful tweak

Happy holidays John. Do you ever come across those stub articles about a small town, where there is a huge white space to the left of the infobox until you reach the top of the weather box? I saw a tweak to fix this recently, and tried it at Lajitas, Texas. Cheers. Magnolia677 (talk) 19:50, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Jack Holmes article

Hi, I noticed you'd made edits on the article about me.

I was hoping you would be able to help improve the article regarding certain accuracy issues. For example, you removed most of the stuff that was correct (working for Norwich, my business MinimalistFooty etc), but I was hoping that maybe I could help you improve the article (as obviously I cannot myself)

If you have Twitter or somewhere we can talk I'd happily provide some sources that are reliable to provide accurate information, if you would be prepared to make the edits?

My Twitter is @jackhoimes and you can find my email from there, I'd greatly appreciate some help improving this article about me. --Jackholmes16 (talk) 01:14, 1 January 2017 (UTC)

First, it's a real bad idea to write about yourself. Second, twitter is irrelevant here, both as a means of communication and especially as a source. Third, there are 0 sources that are reliable available about you. At this point, you simply do not qualify to have a biography here. I would strongly suggest you not edit the article about yourself. Once you get a grasp as to what Wikipedia is (and isn't), you are welcome to make requests at the article talk page, but unless your request involves an in - policy change and you provide reliable sources for it, it will not be honored. Good luck with your art. John from Idegon (talk) 01:21, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
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