User talk:Mathglot/Archive 18

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Happy New Year

Mathglot,
Thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia, and a Happy New Year to you and yours! ~~~~

Thank you so much! Wishing you a most happy 2022! And thank for all your hard work and contributions around here. Best wishes! --A.S. Brown (talk) 07:58, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, you too! (And a special New Year's wish to a helpful lint stalker for fixing it up! )

(Hmm, preview mode shows my 'Thanks' text above being indented to sit flush with the text inside the box, which it should not be, so it is evidently still within the scope of one of the <div>s, even though this edit by R64 should have fixed that; on the other hand, this sentence renders normally; I'll have to look into it. I'll check lintHint after I save this, and if that doesn't work, the page source created by m-w.) Mathglot (talk) 01:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

No lint gadget on this page; I appear to have them only in mainspace. Checking rendered html... Mathglot (talk) 01:18, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

It's sitting flush with the text inside the box because the rotating star image is floated. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 01:22, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

@Redrose64: thanks; since the star is not that vertically big (w=115, h=117), I thought the float would have ended by the end of the container box. Even that 2px difference should've been eaten by the containing div border, but I guess not. Presentation-wise, seems unintentional, and ought to be fixed. Adding {{clear}} afterward (supplied above) fixes it, without generating any extra top-margin that I can detect. Thought it might've been from Template:Happy New Year, but turns out it isn't.

@A.S. Brown:, do you recall what template you used to generate this? I'd like to add a hidden text id so that people can find where it came from, if they wish. Also, it would also benefit from a {{clear}} at the very end. Mathglot (talk) 02:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

I've found it here Template:Happy_New_Year. Thank you and best wishes! — Preceding unsigned comment added by A.S. Brown (talk • contribs) 06:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

@A.S. Brown: It seems that rather than using that template correctly, i.e. as {{subst:Happy New Year}}, you copied code out of it without perhaps understanding that some of the bits that you didn't copy were important, and that some of the bits that you did copy should not have been. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:52, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Ah, that explains a lot; at first I assumed it was *not* from Template:Happy New Year, as the hidden text attribution was not included, and the image was different and there was no hidden template attribution, but a copy/paste job completely explains what might have happened. @A.S. Brown: can you clarify that you copied some content out of Template:Happy New Year onto my page? That could certainly explain what happened, in which case the template itself does not need to be modified. (P.S. In general, copying code out of templates onto a page is tricky, and probably shouldn't be attempted unless you're a template editor.)

That said, A.S. Brown would you like to see modifications to that template going forward, so you could, let's say, add your own choice of image to it, or perhaps add the current year to the message, or anything else? If so, please add your comments on this topic to Template talk:Happy New Year in a new section. Thanks! Mathglot (talk) 21:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Mathglot: by adding the declaration min-height:120px; to the first style="..." attribute, you don't need that {{clear}}. It's 120px because 117 is not a multiple of 4. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:53, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks again, Redrose64. Mathglot (talk) 21:32, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I think I may have copied something wrong, but I hope no harm has been done. Thanks! --A.S. Brown (talk) 07:17, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Talk pages changes

This edit was incorrect. I did not make that comment. I presume you have mistaken restoration after vandalism. The actual comment was added here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nicholas_II_of_Russia&diff=400821184&oldid=393358769. DrKay (talk) 14:26, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@DrKay:, thanks for letting me know about this misattributed "unsigned comment" addition that I added at Talk:Nicholas II of Russia on 2020-09-22. It looks like I used template {{unsigned}} to add this mistaken attribution, and I apologize. I'm not sure what went wrong, other than I made a mistake identifying the author of the comment.

I usually use User:Anomie's excellent unsigned helper script for this kind of thing (or more rarely, {{xsign}}), but not in this case. I no longer remember why I didn't use the script—perhaps it was an edge case that the script doesn't handle, and I had to shift to adding it manually; that should've been a flag that something was up, and that I should have been more careful. I now see that comment in Archive_3, dating to December 2010 and attributed to User Nunh-huh. I apologize for the misattribution; is the Talk page at Talk:Nicholas II of Russia now in the state it should be in, wrt to attributions, or is any further fix-up required? Thanks again for the heads-up, Mathglot (talk) 21:17, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

You may have used my script, it would make that mistake. This shortcoming is documented in the script's documentation: "if the unsigned comment was removed and then the removal was reverted, the reverting user will be used in the {{unsigned}} template". I've updated the script to try to help avoid it in the future. Anomie⚔ 22:27, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I've corrected the archive. Thanks. DrKay (talk) 23:09, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

@Anomie:, thanks for the reply, and especially for the script update. The reason I thought that I didn't use the script, is that if I'm not mistaken, the script leaves a trace in a hidden text comment identifying itself, doesn't it? (is that what line 141 is about?) and the misattribution (here) includes a hidden <!-- Template:Unsigned --> so does that mean the script wasn't used? Or, conversely, does the helper pick the revision and then invoke the template to place it, meaning I might have used the script after all? If the latter, could you append a hidden script-id token as well? If you need help setting up a test bed for this, I recently learned of the import function usually used (I think) for importing foreign articles and their entire history (optionally up to a given revision, I believe) and if that also works intra muros, we could recreate the state of the Nicholas II Talk page just before it went wrong with the bad unsig, and that might be a good test for your modified version. If there's any way I can help, please let me know. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:12, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Line 141 is just telling MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js to display text {{unsigned}} and call the function UnsignedHelper.addUnsignedTemplate when that's clicked. The script just inserts {{unsigned}}. It'd be possible to have the script insert a comment, but personally I'm not sure it's really worthwhile for it to leave comments all over the wiki. Anomie⚔ 01:17, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

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Retargeting default data page for template USD round

Actually another editor had already told me what you told me later, and I really avoided what he had advised me to avoid. Thanks.

Anyways, I need your help. After watching your user page, it seems you are the address I'm looking for. Actually, I'd tried to update the Template:To USD as well as the Template:To USD round, by adding the Template:To USD/data/2021 to them and making it their default, but I failed. Currently, their default is the old Template:To USD/data/2019. Could you do that instead of me? Thank you in advance. HOTmag (talk) 11:10, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, HOTmag, and thanks for your message. I could, but I'm so oversubscribed right now, that I think if I add one more thing to my to-do list, I'll just forget where I am, or what my name is. Can you do me a favor: either try to do it yourself, but this time in the template sandbox and using the test cases page to see how you're doing, or else hold off a bit and just remind me in a few weeks or months? Another alternative would be to just place an Edit request on the Template talk page ( Template:To USD has over 1,000 transclusions, so that would be the more visible of the two), and that should attract a template editor who can do it for you. If you decide to try it yourself and you've never used a template sandbox before, or have other issues, just keep coming back here and ask specific questions and I'll respond to each one. (You can also ask questions at WT:WikiProject Templates, and you might get quicker answers that way; maybe the best might be to ask there, and ping me so I see it, and whoever gets to it first will answer you. Ideally, ask a question that links to a sandbox version that doesn't work properly for some reason, and a link to a case on the testcase page that shows something broken. If you just want it done and don't want to go the sandbox/testcases route just now, the edit request method is probably your best bet.

Does one of these work for you? If not, I'll try to get back to it, but no promises how soon. P.S. I've adjusted the section header above (was, "Hi") so that when it ends up in my Talk archives, it'll be easier for me to remember what it was about; hope this is okay with you. Mathglot (talk) 19:16, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Anchors

Hey Mathglot, and happy New Year! I saw you removed some anchors from Anti-LGBT rhetoric. For the "Adam and Steve" anchor, I think it was still helpful to include it, as multiple pages, including the redirect Adam and Steve were targeting the anchor and not the current section name. I went ahead and fixed all the incoming links to target the section title. Is my understanding of process here correct, or is there some bot activity that made your removal without fixing incoming links more benign than it appears? Firefangledfeathers 17:45, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers:, you have it right, I should've checked links first, I guess it was late. I tend to avoid anchors in section headers as they make for scary-looking headers, not to mention ugly edit summaries, and there are other issues, more or less minor. I was going to self-revert, but I see you've fixed the redirects to point to those sections, so that's fine now. I understand why some editors like to use redirect to an anchor instead of to a section especially if the section name might change, as covered in MOS:SECTIONS and WP:TARGET but the explanations there go into detail of XML and HTML5 in order to explain it, which our guideline pages usually manage to avoid (for good reason), and result in a syntax that is complex and probably scary-looking for those not as familiar with markup language, and ugly for everyone else. Wikicode is supposed to alleviate a lot of those problems (and does, imho), so I prefer the other method with natural-looking section headers and MOS:HIDDENLINKADVICE (and hatnotes where appropriate) although that's listed as only a "supplementary" method. A style difference, I guess. I do use redirects to anchors sometimes, but I tend to reserve them for a direct link to a paragraph or table row or some other situation that doesn't create fractured syntax in the wikicode or require long explanations of why it's there. Apologies for breaking those links, and thanks for the clean-up job. And HNY to you, too! Mathglot (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

I share many of the same opinions. There are definitely some MediaWiki failings that are leading to suboptimal solutions. Firefangledfeathers 18:58, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

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Missed. Mathglot (talk) 09:04, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks and a question

Thanks so much for the welcome, Mathglot!

I have a question I'd love your help on. I completely rewrote the page Homosexuality and the DSM using extensive references, and the page was flagged with the message "This article needs more medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources." Would you mind giving it a look? It seems to me that the vast majority of the sources I cited were both medical and secondary sources -- most of them are from peer-reviewed medical journals. I'd appreciate any tips you might have! RadicalCopyeditor (talk) 02:29, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@RadicalCopyeditor: I will for sure, but might not be right away. If it becomes time-critical, please lmk; and in any case, ping me if you haven't heard anything in several days, I tend to get caught up in things and forget. Another option if you can't wait, or would like other opinions, is to post a question at WT:WikiProject Medicine. Mathglot (talk) 02:37, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much!! RadicalCopyeditor (talk) 02:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

@RadicalCopyeditor: I see that you've made a number of edits to Homosexuality in the DSM since we talked. Have you resolved most of your issues, or do you still have some questions? In general, if the question is about improvement to the article, it's probably best to place it on the Talk page, so others can participate. If it's more about general Wikipedia editing questions, I'm happy to respond here, or you can try the WP:Help desk or WP:Tea house; and there's always WT:MED for bio-medical sourcing issues. Mathglot (talk) 01:25, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for checking, Mathglot! Yep, I got help from some other folks and my questions have been resolved. Much appreciated! RadicalCopyeditor (talk) 14:31, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Mathglot (talk) 23:39, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

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Concern regarding Draft:Paris Saint-Germain F.C.

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Test of some sort; should be deleted. Mathglot (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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Concern regarding Draft:Chindepalle

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Test; delete. Mathglot (talk) 07:33, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Still my hero

Wondered what was up with material you posted and subsequently struck at MOS. So uncharacteristic of you. I guessed you were just having a bad day. Glad to see you struck it rather than delete it. Good call. I'm renewing your contract as my Hero at Large. --Kent Dominic·(talk) 02:04, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Awwwww.... thank you!

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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On the color blue in the tricolore. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Mathglot (talk) 09:05, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

A Barnstar to add to your collection ;-)

		The Guidance Barnstar
		For the tremendous assistance, advice, and guidance you generously offer to editors new, old, and indeterminate. Thank you!

Mark D Worthen PsyD (talk) [he/him] 19:40, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Much appreciated! Mathglot (talk) 01:17, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Mathglot (talk) 22:36, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For User talk:MWD115/Articles needing attribution. JBchrch talk 23:31, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Mathglot (talk) 02:55, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I remain in awe of your patience, kindness and pedagogy. Cheers. JBchrch talk 03:52, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

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Rfc undone. Mathglot (talk) 02:43, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

Rapid onset gender dysphoria controversy

Your recent editing history at Rapid onset gender dysphoria controversy shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Newimpartial (talk) 19:16, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Rubbish. Neither you, nor any editor should issue false warnings on my Talk page. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:32, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

You know that you don't need to get to the third revert before you recognize that you are, in fact, edit earring. You are an experienced editor. Newimpartial (talk) 20:36, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Of course I do. My detailed edit summaries on the page with policy links made it clear for the reason for the reverts, and the second one says this:

"Statements by Wikipedia editors (i.e., Rfc's) do not override Wikipedia's neutrality policy; and the assertion regarding this website does not match sources and is prohibited by WP:NPOV. Show that this is WP:DUE or leave it alone."

As you are an experienced editor, you know that WP:NPOV is pillar two, and cannot be overridden except in the most extreme situations (which I wouldn't attempt), and in particular, not by an Rfc. The subsequent undo restored the POV version, and this is prohibited by WP:NPOV as the assertion about the 4th Wave Now website is very simply not supported in the article, regardless of all the bloviating going on at the Talk page to support the POV statement in the Lead, rather than simply supporting the claim with sources. It cannot remain this way. Mathglot (talk) 20:56, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

When editors hold that NPOV and WP:V require X, and an RfC close endorses that view, but you personally believe that NPOV and WP:V require Y, not X, you do not have grounds for edit warring. You are too experienced an editor truly to believe that you are the only one that understands NPOV, so I am at a loss to grasp why you are trying to justify your repeated reverts. "Being right" is not one of the 3RRNO exemptions. Newimpartial (talk) 21:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, attempting to syllogism your way out of this, is simply one more method to add to the list of things that I see editors doing at the article Talk page, trying to make excuses for why they are unwilling to back up the assertion in the article. This has nothing to do with "being right", it's about WP:NPOV, WP:V. and WP:DUE. You are just one more editor bloviating about this, instead of slamming the door shut on this discussion, and all the endless, pointless, discussion about this at the Talk page by simply providing sources that support the claim. But I guess that's either too hard, or people are having too much fun arguing and would rather do that, instead of, you know, supporting policy by providing ironclad references that support their point of view.

But hey, arguing is a great derail, and takes the spotlight off the fact that the assertion in the lead is POV and unsupported. I know, let's try adding an edit-warring template to the UTP of an editor trying to move the spotlight to where it belongs; that oughta keep them busy for a little while, and off the article Talk page, where—omg!—editors might actually see that this is not, in fact, supported by the sources. Mathglot (talk) 21:19, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Many editors have already considered the sources in relation to NPOV and WP:V. That is what the (properly worded, properly closed) RfC was, in fact, about. I suggest that you WP:DROPTHESTICK before you fall off your high horse, and AGF rather than referring to other editors as bloviating when they understand the sources correctly differently from the way you understand them. Interpreting other editors (last I looked, all participating editors) as (something like) stonewalling when they express (apparently) sincere convictions about a previous RfC discussion is a rather significant AGF fail, IMO. Newimpartial (talk) 21:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

I never said anything about non-AGF; and it is bloviating because sources would've been provided if there were any. Maybe this should be kicked up to a bigger venue where we can discuss the subservience of WP:LOCALCONSENSUS to policy, but honestly, this is way more time than I wanted to spend on this already. Maybe if I get the time, some time. Until then, best of luck. Mathglot (talk) 22:46, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

If you don't see that your statement that it is bloviating because sources would've been provided if there were any is already an AGF fail, compared to say accepting that other editors mean what they actually say - well, maybe that would bear further reflection on your part. Newimpartial (talk) 23:44, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Collapse shit-stirring by late-appearing troll

&? And I thought I was the only one getting the run-around from editors; like removing a good "For further reading" reference from "Axonometric Projection" (not by either of these two); instead of correcting some slight format or spelling error. The image of two snakes swallowing each other comes to mind. At least it keeps them from reverting others' inadvertent violations of the Sacred Order of the Beast ({Wp;S.O.B.)]. And gentlemen, "Bloviating", really! You are 'bloviating' whenever you use this word; even if it's like this: "You are bloviating." or even, "No, _you_ are bloviating, you pedantic bloviator." PS as pointless as this entry, I'm sure it has not fallen beneath the level of what precedes. Now, I have to go confabulate with the "Keeper of Tao". (talk) Ljc 22:27, 3 February 2022 (UTC) &?? Dear Mathglot, I got your last(?) message on my talk page, but decided to reply here; as the turmoil above is more enlivening :-) @Mathglot: @Mathglot One of those should work with 4 "~'s". (talk) Ljc 19:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC) Mathglot

Unlike Newimpartial, whose comments have reason and policy/guidelines in mind behind them, regardless whether I happen to agree or not, there's no need to host pointless provocation by a johnny-come-lately third party with no skin in the game. Mathglot (talk) 01:37, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Signature

@Mathglot: I wanted to alert you that you seem to have added an extra tilde in your 20:47, 28 January 2022 comment on Rapid onset gender dysphoria controversy, creating a timestamp but no signature. (Feel free to delete this section) Srey Sros^talk 21:04, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! Fixed. Mathglot (talk) 08:33, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Barnstar of Integrity

		The Barnstar of Integrity
		About 2½ years ago, I began encountering you on the opposite side of some seemingly intractable editing disputes in controversial articles. In time I noticed that you invariably approached those disputes with genuine civility. I noticed that if you revised one of my edits, you weren't merely being tendentious or stuck in an entrenched position, but instead you actually improved on my version. (That's a rare admission for me to make.) Regardless of how deeply felt your starting position was in any dispute, you proved yourself uncommonly willing to examine contrary evidence with an open mind, and to be persuaded by a valid policy-based argument. The resulting consensus endured for a long time... but I suppose nothing lasts forever. In the ensuing years, I've become less active here, and I see that you've apparently become more active in a great many areas. I'm glad. Wikipedia has undoubtedly been improved as a result of your patient efforts and your integrity. Lwarrenwiki (talk) 20:40, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Very much appreciated. I remember the occasions you are referring to, and I learned a lot from those interactions, in no small part due toyour cogent comments and responses. Thank you. Mathglot (talk) 02:52, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

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 Done (declined to vote; failed RFCBEFORE). Mathglot (talk) 00:18, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

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 Done Mathglot (talk) 01:14, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

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 Done Mathglot (talk) 19:41, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

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This is WP:VPP#Method of surname clarification; voted "not sure yet", so may need a revisit. Mathglot (talk) 01:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

&? Dear Mathglot, I replied to your note of 10 days ago, and tried to send notice to you. Even that failed. If you have the time, please see the bottom of my talk page. Best wishes, Lem (talk) Ljc 22:03, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Sukses...

... gewenst, maar ik heb mijn twijfels hierbij... - DVdm (talk) 22:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

@DVdm:, lol; inderdaad... mvg, Mathglot (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

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 Done Mathglot (talk) 09:03, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

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Initial response given; may need another. Mathglot (talk) 23:54, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

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Commented prior to bot request. Mathglot (talk) 07:35, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

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Your draft article, Draft:Chindepalle

Hello, Mathglot. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Chindepalle".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been deleted. If you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:27, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

This draft was a test example, meant to be deleted. I should've G7'ed long ago. Mathglot (talk) 06:32, 19 February 2022 (UTC)