- 1 Using Wikipedia
- 2 Modifying a Wikipedia page
- 3 Favorite Links
- 4 Drafts
- 4.1 Your moves of Shinzo Abe, Junichiro Koizumi, and Kijuro Shidehara
- 4.2 Use the exact romanized names or those proper alternatives in this English Wikipedia!
- 4.3 Don't order people to misspell and misspeak Japanese names
- 4.4 The most important thing!
- 4.5 Why can YOU order people to misspell and misspeak Japanese names?
- 4.6 I can't agree with the current anti-Japanese racism policy.
- 4.7 Alternatives of Japanese romanized characters
- 4.8 We aren't forcing misspellings on people
- 4.9 "Japanese Romanized True Names" (sent to the White House)
- 4.10 The answer from THE WHITE HOUSE
- 4.11 MfD nomination of User:Rocky7/Research20051024G
- 4.12 Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference
- How to explore Wikipedia
- How to download Wikipedia content
- How to search for an article
- How to use talk (discussion) pages
- How to create talk archive subpages
- How to use the Recent Changes page
- How to use the Related Changes page
- How to use the Go button
- How to log in
- How to do research using Wikipedia
- How to customise your Wikipedia experience
- How to play media files in Wikipedia
Modifying a Wikipedia page
- How to edit a page, including markup details. You can experiment with editing pages in the sandbox
- How to start a new page
- How to name a page
- How to use categories
- How to use images (and the image use policy)
- How to use redirect pages
- How to use tables
- How to use templates (and the available templates)
- How to upload files to Wikipedia
- How to add boilerplate text
- How to create pages for topics with several different definitions
- How to move and merge a page
- How to delete pages/images/categories
- How to link together Wikipedia articles in different languages
- How to link to sister projects
- How to revert a page to an earlier version
- How to edit an article so long that you can't edit
- How to edit with an external editor
- How to edit mathematical formulae using TeX
- How to produce graphics for pages
- How to protect/unprotect pages (sysops only)
- How to do a purge
--Rocky7 07:25, 16 October 2005 (UTC) Have a nice day!
--Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Your moves of Shinzo Abe, Junichiro Koizumi, and Kijuro Shidehara
Please do not move the above articles to the Romaji name, because the Manual of Style says that articles on people should have the popular English name of these people as their titles when possible. In the case of these three people, their popular names do not include macrons, unfortunately. Flyingtoaster1337 13:36, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- You said, "Their popular names do not include macrons, unfortunately". This means, this English Wikipedia have been spreading misspelled names and misspoken pronunciations decisively rather than other Western mass media, because Wikipedias, esp. English Wikipedia has been already the most famous and authoritative encyclopedia. YOU have mistaken causes and effects. "Their popular names"? Their true names have never been "popular", though Shinzō Abe, Jun-ichirō Koizumi, and Kijūrō Shidehara are the current and past Prime Ministers of Japan, because YOU have been spreading their misspelled names which lead to misspeak. Anyway, my talk page is not appropriate place for the discussion of Japanese names and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). I have to copy and paste this section to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
This is a serious and HUGE problem. Their names are universally spelled in English in those manners. In addition, the proper pronunciations are already reflected in the notes. WhisperToMe 18:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- As you aptly talked, YOU and Western mass media, esp. this English Wikipedia, have been producing and re-producing "a serious and HUGE problem" as to how to spell and speak Japanese names, though it is a very very simple and important problem. Current subtitled news on televisions, articles of newspapers, etc. can never reflect "the proper pronunciations" of Japanese names. But YOU can easily do only by adding diacritic marks to them correctly or using those alternatives. Apparently YOU and Western encyclopedias, esp. English Wikipedia should spell people's names correctly, such as Shinzō Abe, Jun-ichirō Koizumi, and Kijūrō Shidehara. All Japanese romanized names are directly expressing their exact pronunciations as they are. But those are not one of phonetic alphabets at all. Those are just true real names. Such a wonderful feat are possible only in case of the words of Japanese language origin, therefore, it is very reasonable to put those romanization marks( ā, ē, ī, ō, ū, n- or n' ) on words of Japanese origin. YOU have mistaken causes and effects, too. Indeed, Japanese themselves often cut necessary diacritic signs, but this is because all Japanese know their correct pronunciations perfectly by other methods such as kanji and common sense, and because there are cases that it is impossible to add diacritic signs, e.g. names of credit card. But Japanese themselves are methodical and easy to forget, therefore, they themselves need perfectly correct records, esp. in encyclopedias, esp. concerning Japanese names. Besides, Japanese names which diacritic marks are not omitted are true Japanese names as well as non-English Western names. Shinzo Abe, Junichiro Koizumi, etc. are only the misspelled versions of the correct Japanese names, as well as German names, French names, etc. which diacritic marks are cutted. Anyway, my talk page is not appropriate place for the discussion of Japanese names and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). I have to copy and paste this section to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Use the exact romanized names or those proper alternatives in this English Wikipedia!
"Please use the exact romanized names or its proper alternatives as possible as you can in this English Wilpedia, esp. in the title, because the exact romanized names are Japanese true names all over the world. This is common sense of pure Japanese(not including ethnic Japanese). As for misspelled versions or omitted ones of the words of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names, it is natural to comment them as "misspelled versions or omitted ones" in the opening paragraph, because all of them are evidently "loan words". --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Don't order people to misspell and misspeak Japanese names
"Storm of Spring" and is this one of the famous racism attacks to Japanese people? I'm sad, but I have to write. It is already well-known that there are too many anti-Japanese racism admins and sockpuppets in English Wikipedia and Japanese one. Apart from YOUR anti-Japanese racism policy, the words of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names apparently should be kept their romanization-macrons( ā, ē, ī, ō, ū ) as they are except using those proper alternatives, because YOU(not only English-language speakers but all the people in the world, including Japanese themselves) cannot pronouce Japanese alphabetical names correctly without the help of the diacritic signs. Therefore, current WP:MOS-JA seems to be only the very stupid products by anti-Japanese racism people such as Chinese and Koreans, who cannot convert their own language words to alphabetical ones as they are with simple and exact romanization. On the other hand, wise Westerns who have visited [Japan]] and studied Japanese language have taught romanization style to Japanese people for their own sake and for all Western-languages speakers since 19c, because romanization style is corresponding with Japanese language rather than German language and Italian language, and romanization style of Japanese words is very, very simple and useful, because you are only indicated to extend the sound of marked character or not to liaison "n" and "[next vowel]". This is very simple principles, but exteremely important laws because it is obviously enough easy that anyone cannot misspell and misspeak. Such a simple and essencial principle is not observed in other languages, even in neighbor countries' ones, e.g. Chinese language, Korean language. In case of Chinese romanized names and Korean ones, there are not such a easy and exact law, therefore, diacritic marks cannot be needed, because if they use diacritic marks, they would need too many ones to practice. The pronunciations of their names in English language and ones in their native tongues are ordinally quite different. In other words, English names of Chinese and Koreans are fatally pseudonyms from an auditory pespective. Contrary to them, Japanese romanized names are real names that are used in Japan and that should be used all over the world as they are. Japanese romanized names which diacritic marks are cutted inappropriately, are only the misspelled version or omitted version of their real names. When Japanese themselves use Japanese romanized names which diacritic marks are cutted, they are using the omitted version with consideration, because all Japanese know those correct versions with other measures such as kanji, hiragana, katagana or Japanese common sense. But when non-Japanese people use Japanese romanized names which diacritic marks are cutted, they are often only using the misspelled version with no consideration, because they are not taght correct spellings and exact pronunciations by the titles of English Wikipedia. In Japanese romanized words, there are twelve specific characters( Ā , ā , Ē , ē , Ī , ī , Ō , ō , Ū , ū , n- or n') at most. In case of Japanese person's names, eight specific characters( Ī , ī , Ō , ō , Ū , ū , n- or n') are used. These characters are divided to only two groups, this is, extending type and non-liaisoning type. How foolish you are, if you cannot realize and practice such easy two types! Japanese diacritic marks are absolutely necessary in order to spell Japanese names correctly, to speak them exactly, and to be received amicably by Japanese people themselves. Why can YOU order people to misspell and misspeak Japanese names? --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
The most important thing!
The most important thing when spell(speak)ing the words of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names, is to pronounce them correctly as possible as YOU can, in other words, to spell them exactly as possible as you can, because Japanese themselves know their romanized names( and their proper alternatives) are directly expressing their real names and that their exact pronunciations are reflected by their exact romanized names. If you don't spell them exactly and/or speak them correctly, even the wisest Japanese often cannot notice that the words YOU told are the words of Japanese origin, even if they are the famous Japanese names. Only diacritic marks can avoid ALL from getting stuck to such a silly problem. In order to confirm their exact pronunciations, YOU should use IPA, not romanized names. Only exact romanized names or their proper alternatives should be used as the title of English Wikipedia, and misspelled versions and omitted ones of them should be introduced as "misspelled or omitted version", because this is the truth. These "misspelled or omitted version"s are permanently "misspelled or omitted version"s, however popular they are. Japanese themselves have been using omitted versions as omitted versions, then of cource so have been Westerns. In Japanese language, a completely same set of pronunciations ordinally has too many meanings which are quite different from each other. All Japanese guess the meanings of them from the context and/or kanji. Each pronunciation of each character of Japanese language is too simple to misspell and misspeak. Because of this circumstances, all Japanese can concentrate their attention only on distinguishing the meaning of words from others. Therefore, if a pronunciation of a marked character is not correct, even the most intelligent Japanese often cannot understand them correctly and would be puzzled. The more famous Japanese names they are, the more puzzled they are. --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Why can YOU order people to misspell and misspeak Japanese names?
For example, "zo" and "zō(zou, zoh, zow)" are quite different in their meaning and impression. "Shinzo" and "Shinzō(Shinzou, Shinzoh, Shinzow)" are the more different from each other; The pronunciation of "Shinzo" are indicating in Japanese language, "You'll be dead" or "I'll kill you"(in Japanese, "死んぞ", "死ぬぞ"), therefore, the title "Shinzo Abe" is a very malicious joke that means stealthily, "You must die now, Abe" or "WE wanna kill the Prime Minister of Japan". YOU are apparently blackmailing in the form that only Japanese can realize. On the other hand, "Shinzō(Shinzou, Shinzoh, Shinzow)" means Heart(ja:心臓) in its pronunciation. So, "Shinzō Abe" is meaning secretly "Hearty Abe" and/or "Honest Abe". Obviously it's a good naming(at least for the Japanese, at least as a naming). And see e.g. Gerhard Schröder, François Mitterrand. Their diacritic marks are not omitted by YOU. Therefore, I have to ask YOU. Why have YOU persisted to prevail such a crazy anti-Japanese-racism mistakes all over the world, though YOU can very easily prevail correct spellings and exact pronunciations? In fact, the title "Shinzo Abe" in English Wikipedia have already spoiled too many things as well as other Japanese-related articles. --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
I can't agree with the current anti-Japanese racism policy.
As I told above, as for the names of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names, their correct pronunciation, in other words, their exact romanized names should be respected absolutely as they are, even though almost Japanese people are very generous and indifferent to such a stupid foreigners' problem. Anyway, Japanese alphabetical words with diacritic marks are already another Japanese language and, at the same time, the Western languages(of cource, including the English language). Do YOU think it is adequate to cut acute accent( ´ )s, grave accent( ` )s, circumflex( ˆ ) s, umlaut( ¨ )s, cedilla( ¸ )s, etc. from non-English names in the worldwide encyclopedia that is indeed obviously referenced all over the world? To begin with, romanization signs in question( Ī , ī , Ō , ō , Ū , ū , n- or n') are just diacritic marks as well as acute accent( ´ )s, grave accent( ` )s, circumflex( ˆ ) s, umlaut( ¨ )s, cedilla( ¸ )s, etc. All of them are generated by wise Westerns themselves. These very simple diacritic marks( Ī , ī , Ō , ō , Ū , ū , n- or n') are not phonetic ones such as IPA:[ˌɡeɐ̯haɐ̯t fʁɪʦ kʊɐ̯t ˈʃʁøːdɐ]. They are indicating only "Extend" and "Not liaison". For the phonetic signs, the words of Japanese origin should have IPA(International Phonetic Alphabet) in this English Wikipedia as well as other non-English words, because the pronunciations of English-language speakers deviate from ones of other Westerns. Even if all of the admins of English Wikipedia and Japanese Wikipedia are very very crazy anti-Japanese racists, I think, it seems very unfavorable at least in English Wikipedia to compel people to misspell Japanese names without allowing people to use diacritic marks, and to make people have party to such deliberate insults to Japanese people, because misspelling and/or misspeaking a name of a person, esp. VIP is considered (very, very) rude all over the world. Besides, it is very clear that this English Wikipedia can easily spell their non-English names with diacritic marks as they are. It is impossible for YOU to make excuse in this English Wikipedia. Japanese names belong first to Japanese people. Though when serching non-English names with diacritic marks, there may be some problems, but those problems are all resolved easily by redirects from the page of misspelled names to one of correct names. What kind of character-set mass media are using now and will be is aparently none of my business and none of Wikipedians'. Sooner or later they would realize what kind of character-set they should use as well as decent Wikipedians. Among Asian names, only Japanese names and Philippine names need the same pronunciation all over the world, because their Latin-alphabetical names are directly expressing their own language names, by those correct spelling, this is, by those pronunciations. In addition, all Japanese have been taught their romanized names as their Western-language names(of cource, including English-language names), because intelligent Westerns themselves found and determined that, when expressing the words of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names, it is the best way for all Wesrtwern people to use romanized names. Even now, in spite of current anti-Japanese racism policy WP:MOS-JA, in case of "ō"(except "ō" before h), "oh" is already used as its alternative all over the world for poor Western mass media. See "Sadaharu Oh", "Shinichiro Ohta". Contrary to current anti-Japanese racism policy WP:MOS-JA, "Sadaharu O" is redirected to "Sadaharu Oh", and Shinichiro Ota haven't even exist(03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)). This "oh" is not romanization itself, but its alternative for poor Western mass media that don't have necessary romanization characters. This shows the truth that we should use exact romanized names or those alternatives at least, when describing someone or something of Japanese origin, esp. Japanese names. Therefore, I can't agree with current anti-Japanese racism policy WP:MOS-JA at all. The persons who have created current anti-Japanese racism policy WP:MOS-JA should explain why YOU are crazily eager to make people missspell and misspeak Japanese names, forgetting the position and features of English Wikipedia and ignoring WP:NPOV? Are YOU thinking English Wikipedia is here to spread your malicious anti-Japanese racism? The persons, who have ever created current anti-Japanese racism policy WP:MOS-JA and have not respect diacritic marks of non-English names, cannot be the pure Western and cannot be the pure Japanese. YOU must be anti-Japanese racism Chinese and/or Koreans, even if you are living in Japan. I myself don't mind ignorant foreighners' misspelling and misspeaking at all, but I cannot agree with arrogant facism order, esp. inhumane racism order to compel people to misspell and misspeak people's name intentionally. --Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Alternatives of Japanese romanized characters
Left cahracters are superior than right ones.
- extending type
- Ā = Aa
- ā = aa
- Ē = Ee
- ē = ee
- Ī = Ii
- ī = ii
- e.g. Kawaii
- Ō = Oo, Ou, Oh(except "Ō" before "h"), Ow(except "Ō" before "[[[voel]]]")
- e.g. Sadaharu Oh
- ō = oo, ou, oh(except "ō" before "h"), Ow(except "ō" before "[[[voel]]]")
- Ū = Uu
- ū = uu
- non-liasoning type
--Rocky7 03:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
We aren't forcing misspellings on people
Are you the author of the tirades against that Wikipedia JA naming policy?
Haven't you seen our wonderful setup?
And, gosh darnit, why do the Japanese themselves "make those errors?" Huh?
"We aren't forcing misspellings on people." Sure? I can't think so, unfortunately. "Trirades"? Not "tirades". I have still had a lot of things to protest against current confusing WP:MJ, unfortunately. YOUR "wonderful setup"? Frankly speaking, I can't think so, unfortunately. Sorry, but I will have to say the same thing sooner or later. I think there are many policies to be improved in WP:MJ. Please notice them by yourself, if YOU can. Only this hard work tired me out. Anyone, please help me. Please understand me profoundly. There seems neither decent pure Japanese Wikipedians nor wise pure Westerns here. "Huh?"? Please calm down. If you got angry, forgive me. But not "errors". They are just imitating. You haven't understand this discussion enough yet. English language belongs to Japanese people? Such a crazy thought any Japanese can't have. But as for YOUR convention prevailing the misspellled Japanese names, I think Japanese people have the right to say, "YOU are too rough. Please spell our name correctly". Even me, just being forced to use the omitted version of shinzō Abe in order to adjust to his omitted(misspelled) version in all of the documents of US government and all of the articles of Western media(including this English Wikipedia). "Shinzō Abe" has been called as "Shinzo Abe" for a long time by English Wikipedia and US government before he became the Prime Minister of Japan. About this problem, I sent a simple email to THE WHITE HOUSE today. See below. Such a confusing problem occurs because YOU have already penetrated "Shinzo Abe" all over the world esp. by the title of the article of English Wikipedia, and because YOU have already advertised "Shinzō Abe" as if it were only phonetic alphabet esp. by the first paragragh of the article of English Wikipedia, though it is his true Western name. Almost all Japanese, including "Shinzō Abe", are not living in English-language world. So, probably, even he cannot help using the omitted version of his true name esp. for English-language speakers, because he himself is forced to understand that he is already known as "Shinzo Abe", neither as "Shinzō Abe" nor as "shinzou Abe", all over the world. Therefore, he and his fellows didn't even add "u" after "Shinzo". He and his fellows didn't even offer its alternative. This means, they have already given up to resolve this very HUGE but very trivial problem, and they are just following YOUR title and the omitted(misspelled) version in the documents of US government and the articles of Western mass media. After all, Shinzō Abe himself and his fellows dared to use omitted(misspelled) version with consideration. Even US government ordinally use the mispelled versions such as Junichiro Koizumi, Shinzo Abe, Taro Aso, probably influenced by this English Wikipedia. Strange to say, even the capable bureaucrats of Japanese government have been using the articles of English Wikipedia as their inside documents. They have been watching YOUR behaviors. It's a true story. YOU don't realize Japanese modesty at all. Japanese culture and nationality are quite passive and quite different from other countries', esp. Korean, Chinese. When Japanese themselves use non-diacritic versions, they use them only as non-diacritic versions with some consideration, never as true versions, because they and all other Japanese know their true names with other methods(such as kanji, katakana, hiragana) or common sense(e.g. Kyoto, Tokyo, Osaka). In addition, there are many cases that it is very troublesome to put diacritic marks from the keyboard, different from handwriting. Moreover, Japanese themselves are very fond of using abbreviations and the like. So, I admit Japanese themselves have some responsibility, but, I, one of them, already achieved accountability concerning this troublesome problem. This problem appears to be a complicated problem from the Japanese side, but, on YOUR side and US government's side, it is very simple problem, because this is a question which name is a true Japanese name YOU should respect. Apparently, YOU, in other words, the titles of the articles of English Wikipedia and the documents of the White House, have the most important keys. Omitted versions are permanetly omitted ones, however often they are used as if they were true names of Japanese people. In this point, they are very similar to nicknames, this is, automatically generated nicknames. Do YOU think nicknames and the like should be used as the titles of the articles of an encyclopedia? I don't think so. Thank you. (My talk page is not appropriate place for the discussion of Japanese names and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). I have to copy and paste this section to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles).) --Rocky7 03:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Such a serious discussion cannot be "personal attack".
I want to say, "Please stop personal attack by saying "personal attack"". If there is a person who call such a logical and fair discussion "personal attack", any persons who have the quite different opinions from each other cannot talk anything. Go away from the irrelevent problem such as personal attack saying "personal attack", at once. The biggest problem of the original discussion is that English language is the fartherest one from Latin language among Western ones. But it can't be helped. The second biggest problem is that: "Why can't YOU use the diacritic marks of Latin language in the title of Japanese names?" I just have to think, "What kind of people can think such a rude policy? YOU must be neither pure Westerns nor pure Japanese." This is neither "racism discrimination" nor "personal attack", because YOU may be ethnic Japanese who are crazily eager to adapt to all of the conventions in the English language's world, and because this is only a fair logic like comparative linguistics and comparative cultural studies. I didn't attack anyone personally. I just criticize the policy very similar to anti-Japanese racism. Anyway, judging from Google"Shinzo Abe""Junichiro Koizumi", the titles of the articles of English Wikipedia have the most important keys. (My talk page is not appropriate place for the discussion of Japanese names and Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). I have to copy and paste this section to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles).) --Rocky7 03:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
"Japanese Romanized True Names" (sent to the White House)
I emailed the following message to the White House.
Greetings The correct spelling of the true name of current Prime Minister of Japan is "Shinzō Abe"( its alternative, "Shinzou Abe", "Shinzoh Abe" ), not "Shinzo Abe". Even Japanese themselves are forced to use omitted(misspelled) version as the most prevailing one, in order to adjust to the documents of US government and all other articles of Western mass media. The same can be said of all Japanese Romanized true names. The correct spelling of the true name of the previous Prime Minister of Japan is "Jun-Ichirō Koizumi( its alternatives, Jun-ichirou Koizumi, Jun-Ichirou Koizumi, Jun'ichirou Koizumi, Jun'Ichirou Koizumi), not "Junichiro Koizumi". Apparently US government, esp. THE WHITE HOUSE has the KEY to determine whether true Japanese Romanized names are used as the most prevailed version or not. Fortunately or unfortunately, almost all Japanese have not lived in Western-languages’world, but all Japanese know that English-language has the most powerful influence all over the world. This means, among all Western media, THE WHITE HOUSE and US government have the most respectable authority about Japanese Romanized true names. Therefore, if you hope truly strong cooperation with and/or help of Japanese government, you should ..... You have the strongest power to make the world better by the slightest good faith. Another Hint: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rocky7 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28Japan-related_articles%29 Sincerely, Peter ******* ********
The answer from THE WHITE HOUSE
I received the answer from the THE WHITE HOUSE at May 10, 2007.
On behalf of President Bush, thank you for your correspondence. We appreciate hearing your views and welcome your suggestions. The President is committed to continuing our economic progress, defending our freedom, and upholding our Nation's deepest values. Due to the large volume of e-mail received, the White House cannot respond to every message. Please visit the White House website for the most up-to-date information on Presidential initiatives, current events, and topics of interest to you. In order to better receive comments from the public, a new system has been implemented. In the future please send your comments to firstname.lastname@example.org. Thank you again for taking the time to write.
MfD nomination of User:Rocky7/Research20051024G
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