Wikipedia:Featured article review/Chinua Achebe/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article review. Please do not modify it. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page or at Wikipedia talk:Featured article review. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was kept by Nikkimaria via FACBot (talk) 3:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC) [1].

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Chinua Achebe

Notified: Scartol, WikiProject Biography/Arts and entertainment, WikiProject Nigeria, WikiProject Children's literature, WikiProject Disability, WikiProject Igbo, 2021-02-16

Review section

I am nominating this featured article for review because there are citation concerns from May 2020, an overreliance of the Ezenwa-Ohaeto source and bloated sections like "Influence and legacy" and "Masculinity and femininity". Z1720 (talk) 21:05, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

• Move to FARC No engagement, 23 cn tags. FemkeMilene (talk) 12:36, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
• Move to FARC - No significant engagement, significant work needed. Hog Farm _Talk 21:03, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

FARC section

Issues in the review section focus on sourcing and length. DrKay (talk) 19:32, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

• Delist - lots of work needed, no engagement. Hog Farm _Talk 03:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
• Delist - per above -Indy beetle (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

  Pinging @Indy beetle: to revisit. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 02:24, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

  • Thank you for the ping. In Things Fall Apart, Okonkwo's furious manhood overpowers everything "feminine" in his life, including his own conscience, while Achebe's depiction of the chi, or personal god, has been called the "mother within".[152] Okonkwo's father was considered an agbala—a word that refers to a man without title, but is also synonymous with 'woman'. Okonkwo's feminization of his father's laziness and cowardice is typical of the Igbo perspective on any man seen as unsuccessful. This is something that might require in-text attribution. Gender scholarly interpretation of a literary work (or any interpretation for that matter) is hardly something that should be presented in Wiki-voice as purely factual (if something is a critical consensus this should be stated explicitly). Also, the Some have argued and Some argued is a little too vague; who are we talking about here? Literary critics? Igbo people? Gender scholars? Also, Achebe is regarded as the most dominant and influential writer of modern African literature by literary scholars I presume? Who is calling him the "father" of modern Africa literature? Also, His legacy is particularly unique in regards to its substantial impact on both African and European literature is somewhat vague. I presume this means that he's one of the few African writers who's work has influenced European literature? In summary, the article is indeed salvageable, but there appears to be too much MOS:WEASEL wording. -Indy beetle (talk) 02:59, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

    • Thanks Indy beetle. I have given in-text attribution for the "some have" sentences and the first part of the "Okonkwo's furious manhood..." excerpt. The agbala and feminization of his father's failure is too fundamental to the story to require such attribution I would think. I changed the line you were confused about to "His legacy as a writer is particularly unique in regards to its substantial impact on not only African literature, but European literature as well"—the source in question was stressing that most African writers of his time did not impact European literature much, but Achebe was an exception. The "father" thing isn't really disputable; you'll see that there are four references from a variety of sources, meaning a kind of universal opinion. The "dominant" line is similar; it is sourced to two entries on Achebe that are general overviews, where I would think the author is attempting to speak from a consensus-based perspective, not a personal one. Aza24 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

      • Thank you for your tweaks. I've made some of my own too, with a note that the "father" label percolated in many obituaries of him. WEASEL has its caveats, and searches through my university database on journal articles supports your conclusion that this high regard for Achebe is very much the consensus, even if it is somewhat taken for granted. Shame we don't know who was the first to accord him the honors, but we're doing what Wikipedia does at its best; representing the scholarly view. No more concerns about the article, I think it stands fine as an FA. -Indy beetle (talk) 23:54, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

        • Many thanks for your thorough comments Indy beetle! Aza24 (talk) 00:35, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

• Wait - The issues above are being dramatized, this article is pretty close to FA standard. I want to get around to adding some refs to missing places and fix up other issues. I would ask that the coords hold on this. Aza24 (talk) 17:31, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

• Once the article is fixed up, please ping me and I will conduct a copyedit and re-review. Z1720 (talk) 20:25, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
• Thanks for doing this, Aza24.. I just don't have time for Wikipedia these days but I would hate to see this article get delisted. Scartol • Tok 19:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Happy to help, Achebe is truly a gem. Aza24 (talk) 05:34, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

• Could we get an update on status here, Aza24? Nikkimaria (talk) 17:01, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

• Hi, I've dealt with all the cn tags (that were there when I got there—there appears to be an IP addressing some) except two thus far. I will note that I found it rather concerning that almost all of the tags were faulty ones; placed on lines that were in fact sourced by the reference at the end of the paragraph (I have, regardless, added additional/duplicate citations for these). I will also note that I checked Achebe's Oxford Bibliography entry and it seems that Ezenwa-Ohaeto is currently the most thorough source on his biography—and (because of this) one can see that almost no Ezenwa-Ohaeto refs are used in the style section. Additionally, the supposed "length" issue commented below the FARC section has not been brought up by a single editor (??). It is somewhat concerning that three experienced editors were so quick to vote "delist", and equally so that none of the issues were properly evaluated. I still have some more work to do, the holdup was due to me reading a few chapters on Achebe... Aza24 (talk) 05:34, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: I placed many of the cn tags that you fixed. When I reviewed the article, the prose contained many one-sentence paragraphs that were uncited, so I tagged them. Another editor merged the paragraphs together but kept the cn tags as the reference at the end of the new paragraph might not verify the information that was merged together. I am happy that most of the cn issues have been addressed. I don't mind removing duplicate references (and I actually prefer this, as footnotes distract the reader.) The length issues concern some sections that are very large, including the "Masculinity and femininity" section (especially the second paragraph) and the "Influence and legacy" sections. I recommend that someone familiar with this person review the article to try to more effectively summarise the article in the bloated parts. I am happy to re-review and copyedit once these are complete. Z1720 (talk) 17:13, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Okay @Aza24: where are we up to on this one? Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 23:10, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Still working Casliber. I'm yet to finish cleaning the life section yet, and have just gotten (like the day before yesterday) access to some sources through resource request, to hopefully diversify the citations in the biography. I know you guys are trying to keep the process moving, but I only really started editing on May 2nd (though I briefly cleaned up some things on April 23rd), so any lenience—if possible—would be much appreciated. Aza24 (talk) 00:05, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

More than happy to cut plenty of slack timewise if articles are being worked on. So take your time, there is no mad rush. We've kept things open for months if it looks like things are heading in the right direction Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 20:22, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

• @Aza24: Any update? Nikkimaria (talk) 01:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the ping; I've gone through most of the life section and restructured/reorganized the sources. I'm yet to throughly go through 1.6–1.9 or the Influence and legacy section, which I hope to get to this weekend. Aza24 (talk) 02:13, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
    • Hey Nikkimaria, I do want to continue work on Achebe—which I think is rather close—but I'm hoping to focus on the core contest until it ends on June 15th, would that be OK? Aza24 (talk) 22:50, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
      • Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 23:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
      • @Aza24: now that Core Contest is over, how are things looking here? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:41, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
        • Drafting a legacy section that I hope to finish today—will do my best to give an update on that later today. Aza24 (talk) 19:34, 1 August 2021 (UTC)
          • Still working on this in sandbox and outside reading—on a trip until Monday though. Apologies, I know I’m taking a while with this and I very much appreciate everyone’s patience… Aza24 (talk) 04:34, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

• Update: The Influence and legacy section is finished, and the "Life and career" is more or less done, though I may try to diversify the sources a little more (everything in it sourced already, regardless). I am still copy editing and trimming the Style and Themes sections. @Z1720:, could you take a look at the Bio and legacy sections if you have some spare time? Aza24 (talk) 04:40, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
• Casliber, could you delete this 14 year old Talk:Chinua Achebe/to do page? Aza24 (talk) 03:30, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
  • @Aza24: I am sorry for my delayed response; real life has had to take precedence for me. I am putting this on my to-do list and I will review the sections above once I have more time. Feel free to ping/bug me if isn't done in a week. Z1720 (talk) 19:47, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
    • Z1720, take as long as you need, seriously. Happy to return to this in a few weeks if you're too busy. Aza24 (talk) 22:40, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I read through the bio and made copyedit: please review to ensure I did not change the meaning of something by accident. Some questions below:

• "Achebe was admitted as a Major Scholar in the university's first intake" What is a Major Scholar? This should be clarified in the article.
  • Removed, couldn't find it in other sources Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
• "From its inception, the university had a strong Arts faculty; it included many famous writers amongst its alumni: Nobel Laureate Wole Soyinka, poet and playwright John Pepper Clark, and poet Christopher Okigbo." Why is this sentence included in this article? Did these people influence Achebe? If so, how? If not, this information should be moved to the university's article.
  • Mostly cruft, so removed. Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
• "Achebe wrote a piece for the University Herald" What is the University Herald? A short description should be included in the article.
  • Clarified Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
• "When a professor named Geoffrey Parrinder arrived at the university" Is this Geoffrey Parrinder, and should it be wikilinked?
  • Yes! Linked Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
• "Also in 1956, Achebe was selected at the Staff School run by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC)." I'm confused by this sentence. What is the Staff School? Is it an institution, a program, or something else?
  • Clarified, it was a training school for staff at the BBC (and run by the BBC it self) as I understand it
• "By 1957, he had sculpted it to his liking," Is this implying that he finished writing and editing his work? I've rarely seen writing described as sculpting and I think a more direct description would be better.
  • Hmm yeah I think its too crufty anyways, removed. Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)
• "The VON's supposedly objective perspective was put to the test when Nigerian Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa declared a state of emergency in the Western Region, responding to a series of conflicts between officials of varying parties." What was the result of this "test"? Was VON able to maintain their neutrality? Maybe something like, "The VON struggled to maintain an objective perspective when Nigerian Prime Minister Abubakar Tafawa Balewa declared a state of emergency in the Western Region, responding to a series of conflicts between officials of varying parties." And in the subsequent sentence, describe what the VON did to maintain/not maintain this neutrality.
  • Took your (much better) wording. Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

This brings me to "Nigeria-Biafra War (1967–1970)" Z1720 (talk) 02:36, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Z1720 I've responded to the above, many thanks thus far. Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

• Could we get an update on status here? Nikkimaria (talk) 03:44, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
  • Sorry, I don't think I ever saw Z1720's comments. Aza24 (talk) 01:39, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the delayed response. Real life has been busy. @Aza24: more comments below:

• "As the turmoil closed in," Can this be more specific? What specifically was happening in Aba that was increasing turmoil? Were Nigerian forces getting closer to the city, or is this just talking about the war in general?
  • I've rephrased it; including more information about the war specifically seems uncalled for for this article, but if you insist I can certainly do so. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
• "serve as foreign ambassador" for Biafra? What does a foreign ambassador do?
  • Not real a formal position, but I've elaborated Aza24 (talk) 09:03, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
• "For his seventieth birthday in 2000, a sizable celebration took place at Bard College and was attended by writers and critics from around the world." Is this sentence necessary for this article? It feels like fluff to me.
  • Removed Aza24 (talk) 09:03, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
• "In Things Fall Apart, ceremonial dancing and the singing of folk songs reflect the realities of Igbo tradition." This sentence, and the subsequent sentences in this paragraph, are only cited to Achebe and the "In Things Fall Apart" book. This sentence needs a citation to verify this claim, as the book can only verify the plot, not the fact that the dancing and singing reflect Igbo tradition.
  • I looked through quite a few sources and found some refs to support most of this, but in doing so I realized that the paragraph is basically subtle WP:SYNTH so I've opted to remove it entirely. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

This brings me to "Themes" Z1720 (talk) 19:21, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Finishing up the review:

• I think the first paragraph in Themes can be merged into Culture and colonialism. Thoughts?
  • I would say no, as—not withstanding the fact that the section is already rather long—it introduces that Achebe includes igbo sentiments in both the "Tradition and colonialism" aspect and "Masculinity and femininity" ones. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
• The "Things Fall Apart" paragraph in Masculinity and feminimity is still quite long. I think it can be trimmed, but I would rather an expert go through it.
  • I looked closely at it, but gender in Things Fall Apart is probably Achebe's most famous and analyzed theme (if not second most) and is the source of some controversy, so I am hesitant to remove much, as to avoid any risk of confusion or under-explanation. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Those conclude my first readthrough. Once the above are addressed, I'll do another read of the article. Pinging Aza24. Z1720 (talk) 19:46, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Comments responded to Z1720. Aza24 (talk) 21:06, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

More comments. I'm up to "Retirement and politics"

• "Later, in Things Fall Apart, Achebe describes a similar area called the "evil forest", where the Christian missionaries are given a place to build their church." This is cited to a note, which in turn is cited to one of Achebe's books. Does the book verify that the evil forest is supposed to be a similar area to the Merchant of Light school in Oba? If not, I think this is WP:OR
  • Definitely OR, good catch, removed now. Aza24 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
• "In 1957 he sent his only copy of his handwritten manuscript (along with the £22 fee) to the London company." Which London company?

Those are my comments so far. Will continue later. Z1720 (talk) 03:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

• • The company itself is actually unnamed in the source, but I've clarified that it was a "manuscript typing service"

@Aza24: Finishing up my comments. I don't think my two points above have been addressed. Also:

• I don't think the ref, "Achebe, Chinua (1965). "English and the African Writer"." is cited in the article anymore. Can it be removed?
  • It had an incorrect date, so is now used
• "Emenyonu, p. 86." Which work is this cited to? It should include the year.
  • Not sure, I couldn't get access to either ref. I've removed it as the information it covered was superfluous anyways
• The following refs are not cited in the article. Can they be removed from the general bibliography section, or have footnote citations added that lead to them? "July, Robert W. (1987). An African Voice.", "July, Robert W. (1987). An African Voice.", "Lawtoo, Nidesh (Spring 2013).", "Franklin, Ruth (26 May 2008)."
  • Sorted Aza24 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

Those are my thoughts. Z1720 (talk) 19:37, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

• Thanks per usual Z1720, everything has been addressed. Aza24 (talk) 04:05, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

The following refs are flagged as not having references leading to them. Can they be cited in the article or removed?

• Achebe, Chinua (1975).
• Emenyonu, Ernest N. (1996).
• Laurence, Margaret (2001).
• July, Robert W. (1987).

More comments to come later. Z1720 (talk) 20:39, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Hey Z1720, does "He wrote in and defended the use of English, describing it as a means to reach a broad audience, particularly readers of previously colonial nations" make sense to you? I wasn't exactly sure how to phrase the latter section; I'm trying to say that he's using English to reach nations that used to be colonizers (UK and America) but I think it might sound like he's using English to reach countries that used to be colonized (like Nigeria)? Aza24 (talk) 22:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC) Also, I removed the unused refs, two were general books on African literature so it didn't make sense to include them in further reading. The other was a chapter of a book cited elsewhere (and one just just an Achebe publication). 22:48, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Aza24: I might say, "He defended writing his works in English by describing it as a means to reach a broad audience, particularly readers of colonial nations." This might emphasise that he is talking about writing in English. The UK is still a colonial nation (Falkland Islands, Bermuda) and the US can be argued as a colonial nation today (Guam, Puerto Rico, American Samoa) so to say they were previous colonial nations would, imo, be inaccurate. Z1720 (talk) 14:01, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Probably better than the existing phrasing, so I've changed it to your suggestion. Aza24 (talk) 20:28, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

I finished a second review of the article. After shortening some phrases, and removing sentences that were not directly related to Achebe, I think this is almost ready for a keep. Aza24 thoughts? Z1720 (talk) 17:44, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Z1720! I am really bad at trimming things like that, so I'm glad you could step in to get that sorted. I did some minor ce and ran some tools dup link tools and such and it looks great now.

I'll officially put a Keep from me. Aza24 (talk) 20:28, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

• In the quote box in "Influence and legacy", should this end with a period or ellipses or ... ?

  There was a writer named Chinua Achebe [...] in whose company the prison walls fell down SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:10, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

  Similar for quote beginning with "Forty-three years ago, at the first anniversary" ... has no final punctuation. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:12, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

  Both should have periods, now added. Aza24 (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

• Some sources call it the "Chinua Achebe International Conference Center"; which is it, and is it notable (WP:RED?) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:14, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

  Nope, name is correct,[2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:44, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

  Probably not notable enough for a red link; I expect it would (if ever created) be a redirect to a section in a broader article. Aza24 (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

• DrKay is there a generic way to deal with the horrific amount of HarvRef errors in the Writings section? The curious part is that some of them do not have HarvRef errors. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
• "now titled Things Fall Apart" ... did it start its life with a different title? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:40, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I was just untitled before then, now clarified Aza24 (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
• Review for MOS:LQ? Sample ... "This is the best novel I have read since the war". Another sample: "a thoroughgoing racist." SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:40, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I tried to go through some, but honestly by energy for this article is too burnt out to do so thoroughly. My apologies. Aza24 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
• Scanning the text ... Things Fall Apart (1958), occupies a pivotal place in African literature and remains the most widely studied, translated and read African novel ... seems to be as of 2017, but unclear, and time context for the statement should be made more clear in the body of the article. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:40, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • Well those kinds of things seem cumulative; wouldn't giving time context imply that it could change immediately with the publication of a new novel? (Which I feel like is not true, as opposed to a movie
• I can never remember what gets uppercase on this, pls check ... Professor of African Studies at Brown University. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I believe so [3] 22:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
• Achebe's work has been extensively analyzed and a massive body of scholarly work ... massive sounds a bit over the top, where is it mentioned in body of article, should the word be attributed, should the word be cited? (I ask, not having yet read the body.) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • It comes from the (perhaps in an unorthodox fashion) the quote above the further reading section that says "Achebe is discussed in nearly every book and survey article written on African literature in English". I changed to "vast", which is maybe an improvement? I could also cite it further if needed. Aza24 (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
• Leads should be digestible to all levels of readers ... French word in the lead ... but linking to Work of art still requires them to click out ... " In addition to his seminal novels, Achebe's oeuvre includes numerous short stories, ... " why not just say "body of work" or some such ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
  • I wouldn't object to replacing oeuvre, but it is one of my favorite words :) I think magnum opus is well-known enough to keep (if that was even in question) and saying "masterpiece" always feels to un-encyclopedic. Aza24 (talk) 00:41, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

A wonderful and important FAR save, please ping me when completed so I can enter a Keep. Scartol made fabulous contributions, and it would have been a shame to lose this work. AS Aza24 is now the leading author of the article, Aza should be up for a FAR rescue barnstar. Oops, we never finalized that proposal ... hints, hints! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 14:54, 3 December 2021 (UTC)

@SandyGeorgia: Have we not?[4] Renerpho (talk) 08:56, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Better discussed on talk, and once the FAR closes, but first Indy beetle’s comment above remains to be addressed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:18, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Have responded to all of your comments I believe SandyGeorgia Aza24 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Very nice work; I’m a Keep (although I’m still uncomfortable with the unlinked oeuvre in the lead). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:30, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I linked it to the Writings section, which is perhaps helpful? My assumption is that the contextual use makes it meaning clear. Aza24 (talk) 00:35, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:38, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

My comments above have been addressed, I think this is ready to keep. Great work Aza24. Z1720 (talk) 18:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

• Closing note: This removal candidate has been kept, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please leave the {{featured article review}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Nikkimaria (talk) 03:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.