Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dinosaurs

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WikiProject Dinosaurs (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject icon This page is within the scope of WikiProject Dinosaurs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of dinosaurs and dinosaur-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Can I send invitations to new members for your project?[edit]

Hi, I have been working on recommending new members for your project for a while, and have sent some lists to IJReid who helped invite those recommended editors. I wonder if you mind me sending invitations directly to save time and efforts of yours? Thank you! Bobo.03 (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't mind if you send invitations directly Bobo.03. I forgot to fill out the surveys and stuff will do that now. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 19:51, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
@IJReid: Great, thank you! I can continue sending the list to your own page as well if you'd like to see and send them:) I will generate the list at most once a week. Bobo.03 (talk) 19:59, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Grallator[edit]

According to the Grallator article, there a a heck of a lot of synonyms of Grallator. These, like Dilophosauripus all should redirect to Grallator. However, we have articles for Abelichnus, Eubrontes, and Jialingpus all of which are listed as synonyms of Grallator! Shouldn't these all redirect to Grallator or is there something I don't know about? --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 13:34, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

This paper treats Eubrontes as distinct and it was published this year. I don't think we should act hastily about this. Abyssal (talk) 13:41, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
I think the problem is that ichnotaxonomy is a mess, with every author having their own opinion. FunkMonk (talk) 14:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Exactly. I will remove the list, as it is not covered by the provided sources (and I don't know of one that would support this), and does not reflect any of the main opinions currently held in the field anyway. There are also a lot of redirects of ichnotaxa listed as "synonyms" to the article Grallator (e.g., Kayentapus), they would also need to be deleted or get their own article. Establishing synonyms does currently not really work in dinosaur ichnology anyways; there are a lot of taxa which cannot really be separated from others but remain in use, for example as "regional ichnotaxa". --Jens Lallensack (talk) 14:59, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Resurrecting Wikipedia:WikiProject Dinosaurs/Dinosaur collaboration[edit]

Any interest in resurrecting this? Maybe to get some broader articles worked on, like origin of birds or something? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:44, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

There was some discussion about Brachiosaurus on my talk page.[1] FunkMonk (talk) 05:58, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
I would be very interesting in resurrecting it, as this collaboration was one of the things that once persuaded me to join this project. Maybe a new try with the old format, where we vote for the next-important article? Brachiosaurus would be a great candidate. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 06:12, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

Ok folks, consider the collaboration officially resurrected. There is no time limit - once an article reaches GA then the next one is selected. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:58, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

So do we just keep Brachiosaurus, which was the current collaboration when the initiative had been inactive, or do we do a new round of nominations? Maybe the first option isn't too bad, as Brachiosaurus seems to be quite close already and there is renewed interest in working on it again, and seeing that article succeeding would perhaps be more motivating than seeing it failing? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Ok, two things happen. Everyone is welcome to work on or offer advice on Brachiosaurus as a first thing. Second thing is to think about another article that you'd like to work on at a later date once Brachiosaurus passes GA, as the one with the top votes becomes the next official collaboration. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 08:48, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Alright, got it! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 09:07, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Pinging LittleJerry and IJReid. We could maybe start a discussion on the article's talk page to list what we think the article needs? FunkMonk (talk) 10:57, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Section on improvement started:[2] Also pinging MWAK, in case he has anything to add... FunkMonk (talk) 14:45, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Any recommendations for sources I could use? LittleJerry (talk) 16:20, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
I am already collecting, and as I happen to have most of the relevant sources as pdf, I think it might be a good idea that I upload the stuff and send a download link to each collaboration participant via wiki mail? I try to get that done by tomorrow! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
As far as I know, the latest description is this, which is freely available:[3], and if you use Scihub or something like that, the original description is here:[4] But others probably know of some more good sources. Sounds good with download, Jens! FunkMonk (talk) 16:33, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Lovely article[edit]

Is there a Hall of Fame for cute dinohoaxes? I found a splendid nominee:

Darn, I have a feeling Beaudesertoceratops might be related to the blocked hoaxer Ozarcusmapesae[5]... FunkMonk (talk) 13:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I hope not. Someone who knows the field better than I do should check his edit record in Simple. If it is riddled with hoaxes more subtle and less pleasant than this one, then it's a sad day but duty must be done. Jim.henderson (talk) 13:37, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zunityrannus He has also tried to restore this nomen dubium here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zunityrannus&action=history I directly quote the Tyrannosauroidea article: "An as-yet-undescribed and unnamed tyrannosauroid (informally named "Zunityrannus")." Nothing whatsoever from the Paleobiodb. --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 17:58, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Image Criteria[edit]

The "What Images Should Be Used" section lists JP screenshots as an exception to the grass rule, but this is obviously not okay, per copyright and movies do not have special "avoid review for free tickets" unless used for pop culture, which again is still restricted by copyright. Should I remove this? (This is a legitimate concern, not an April Fools prank.) --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 17:43, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I think that is an old remnant from when it was common to use fair use images in dinosaur articles, due to a lack of free images, which is obviously not a concern today. So I agree it could just be removed. FunkMonk (talk) 19:00, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
I'll go ahead and remove it, in addition to the Walking With... exceptions on the general paleoart review. --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 22:13, 2 April 2018 (UTC)
  • There is another criterion which was added later than the others which may be a bit iffy "Image seems heavily inspired by another piece of media or directly copied from it. Example: A image of Tyrannosaurus or Velociraptor depicting them as they appear in Jurassic Park being used in the articles on the genera, or an illustration of Deinonychus being a direct trace of another illustration of Deinonychus." First, what is wrong with being inspired by other media? Second, yes, if an image is a direct copyright violation, it should be deleted from Commons, but that is an independent process. FunkMonk (talk) 14:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
I think that it refers to something like this. Suppose that User:Example draws a Pentaceratops using the exact same color scheme (or a few minor alterations) and in a similar pose to this one. I'm pretty sure that would violate copyright somehow (although the color doesn't apply to Anchiornis, Microraptor, Sinosauropteryx prima, Psittacosaurus sp., Archaeopteryx, etc.). --Slate Weasel (talk | contribs) 11:50, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Copyright law is very complex, so I hesitate to comment, but based on my experiences of making images of prehistoric plants, my understanding is that copying another drawing is not acceptable. You can draw an image yourself from the verbal description in a source, and use any illustration there as a guide, e.g. whether there should be feathers or not. Coping the exact arrangement of feathers and their colour, if only shown in the image, would be a step too far. It's fine to "be inspired by" but not to "be inspired to copy by". But this is a very complex issue, and best referred to experts if there's a doubt. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps we should just make it clear that copying the work of others is not accepted. The whole "inspired" thing is too vague and open to interpretation. FunkMonk (talk) 12:51, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Taxobox at Timurlengia[edit]

The taxobox is currently wrecked at Timurlengia because Template:Taxonomy/Timurlengia was deleted with the summary "Mass deletion of pages added by Beaudesertoceratops". I'm reluctant to re-create the taxonomy template, but it is needed, so can someone knowledgeable please fix this. Peter coxhead (talk) 08:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

There's the same problem at Ignotornis (an ichnogenus); Template:Taxonomy/Ignotornis was deleted with the summary "Mass deletion of pages added by Mylodana". Peter coxhead (talk) 08:18, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Fixed the first one, but I'm not sure what to do about the second one, don't know much about ichnotaxonomy. FunkMonk (talk) 08:46, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
@FunkMonk: nor me! Bob the Wikipedian seems to have been the "ichno expert", but doesn't seem to be around now. Peter coxhead (talk) 13:12, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
I managed to make some kind of fix, but it really could do with an expert look. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:18, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
Good source of ichnotaxomies Bob the WikipediaN (talkcontribs) 02:04, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
I restored {{Taxonomy/Ignotornidae}} and corrected its parent to {{Taxonomy/Avipedia}} Bob the WikipediaN (talkcontribs) 02:13, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Australian Spinosaurid[edit]

A new user has created Australian Spinosaurid for an unnamed species. I'm not sure it merits its own article. Described here, discussed here, routine pop science coverage here. --Animalparty! (talk) 01:29, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

needs a little fixing up but looks notable to me   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  03:24, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
We usually don't have articles on unnamed or invalid species. I think the content should better be incorporated within the Spinosauridae article. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 05:08, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Heh, we actually do have a lot of that kind of article[6], but I think we should restrict what we make articles for, perhaps to animals that have been mentioned in the scientific literature or some such. FunkMonk (talk) 06:37, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Hm … but, then, when does a single fossil discovery qualify to get its own article? Having received an informal name (and the australian spinosaurid doesn't even have one, we should use the specimen number as lemma here) seems like a poor criterion to me (as these names are quite meaningless). What is the current consensus here, are fossil finds generally relevant when they cannot be attributed to an existing genus? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 07:52, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
I would say no, and I also think we should not "steal the thunder" of future formal namings of dinosaurs, but some of these articles are quite old, so we would probably need a wide discussion before knowing what to do. Perhaps we could have a cut off point and say we don't create more of such articles after a certain date. FunkMonk (talk) 07:58, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
We could, in the future, have sections about unassigned material and yet unnamed species in the article of the respective higher-ranked taxon. As that would be the logical place to discuss the stuff. Once established, we could simply redirect those articles to these sections, keeping only the most significant ones. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 08:07, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Seems like a good compromise, though to be complete these sections would of course need to mention a lot of other material than what we have individual articles for. FunkMonk (talk) 08:18, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Agree with placing material on undescribed taxa in the body of the next higher ranked article Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:22, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject Dinosaurs Newsletter.[edit]

Hi, I would like to help make a newsletter for WikiProjects Dinosaurs, can anyone help? PW102281 (talk) 15:10, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Heh, I don't even know what that is, any links? FunkMonk (talk) 15:23, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Dinosaurs[edit]

Hello everyone, on my user page, I have a dinosaur of the month, if you would like to choose the next dinosaur for my page, click here. PW102281 (talk) 21:02, 10 April 2018 (UTC)

Hi, heres a userbox that I made for stegosaurus lovers!

Stegosaurus BW.jpg This user likes
Stegosaurus.



PW102281 (talk) 21:57, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Problematic taxonomy[edit]

Gspsaurus and Saraikimasoom and the associated taxonomy templates have been causing taxobox errors for some time. One problem has been that a family, Gspsauridae, was placed in another family, Titanosauridae. I "corrected" this to place Gspsauridae in Titanosauroidea, but it would be good if someone here could look at these articles, since my interest is in problematic taxoboxes, not dinosaurs. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:19, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Well, we don't even have to worry about that. Gspsauridae is not a real clade. Nor is Saraikimasoominae. And all the taxa described by Malkani in the 2015 paper are invalid nomen manuscriptum so they shouldn't even have taxon boxes. On a very important side note FunkMonk, Laossaurus is the same hoax article creator/copyrighted image uploader as before. IJReid {{T - C - D - R}} 14:25, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Ah, good to know that's sorted. I've asked for the corresponding taxonomy templates to be deleted. Peter coxhead (talk) 16:20, 13 April 2018 (UTC)