Wikipedia talk:In the news

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Ongoing: Kashmir Unrest[edit]

I find it curious that Wikipedia's "In the news" lists only one Ongoing event, namely the 2016 Kashmir Unrest. Surely, there are other things going on today's world? What about the U.S elections and the civil wars in Syria and Yemen? Aren't they ongoing events? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorsundar (talkcontribs) 19:46, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

We can only consider events that are nominated for Ongoing. As stated at WP:ITN, "The purpose of the ongoing section is to maintain a link to a continuously updated Wikipedia article about a story which is itself also frequently in the news." Also, "In general, articles are NOT posted to ongoing merely because they are related to events that are still happening. In order to be posted to ongoing, the article needs to be regularly updated with new, pertinent information." Elections are posted upon the results of the election, and not the campaign- otherwise, every campaign in every country would need to be listed there. If you feel the civil wars you mention merit posting per the Ongoing criteria, please nominate them. 331dot (talk) 23:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. How does one nominate other news stories as ongoing? The Kashmir Unrest article in Wikipedia has had its neutrality questioned. I think that it should be removed from the list of ongoing events. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctorsundar (talkcontribs) 14:17, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Please visit WP:ITNC to make a nomination; if you are making a new nomination, please edit the section of the page which has the date the event occurred. When you edit, a template is made available on the edit screen which you can copy and paste, and then fill in as much appropriate information as you have. If you are asking for something to be removed, you can simply edit the current date's section and request its removal, along with your reasoning. 331dot (talk) 14:58, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

In the news: Moscow Ring RailwayMoscow Central Circle[edit]

You should change the name of the railway system. Currently it is not correct.--Александр Мотин (talk) 11:04, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Александр Мотин: You might get a faster response at WP:ERRORS or even by posting within the existing nomination discussion at WP:ITNC. 331dot (talk) 11:08, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
@331dot: Done. Thanks.--Александр Мотин (talk) 11:15, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Death criteria updated - animals, etc[edit]

Following the unopposed proposal, now archived at Wikipedia talk:In the news#Second proposal regarding animals, etc on RD, I have made the change to the death criteria. Consensus is now clear that the section is open to individuals only, and only to humans, animals and other biological organisms. The recent death of any non-biological individual, any group of biological or non-biological individuals, or any entity (biological or otherwise) that is not an individual may still be proposed as a blurb and can be posted as such if there is consensus to do so. Thryduulf (talk) 22:43, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

RSS Feed[edit]

My apologies if I'm not posting this request to the correct place. I really like the other Main Page sections having an RSS feed. I would like to see one for the "In The News Section." Is that possible? I am willing to help if I can. 47.150.113.6 (talk) 00:26, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I think ITN already has one? The header on this page says "Looking for an RSS feed of "In the news"? Check out <http://itn.svick.org/>." Is this what you're looking for? SpencerT♦C 14:06, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Adding new nominations to the top[edit]

I'd like to propose that we change adding nominations to the heading that they occurred, and instead add all new nominations to the top of the page.

The reason for this is mainly because people rarely scroll down and anything over the age of three days never really gets much attention. There was recently a more complex proposal to highlight older nominations that needed more commentary, but that didn't seem to get anywhere. In addition, I would add a line (like Date: 18 September) to the candidates template to show what day the event occurred on, so that closers can easily tell when something is stale and admins know where to slot it into the ITN template. Feel free to discuss this below. Fuebaey (talk) 21:27, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

I think separate "Date of event" and "Date of nomination" fields in the template would be most useful if this suggestion goes ahead, my initial gut feeling is to weakly support this, but I want to think about it a bit more. Thryduulf (talk) 15:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The Date I was referring to in the candidates template was for the "Date of event", and would probably clarify that on the template as a comment or a straight replacement. I don't see a need for the latter because every nomination is automatically signed, which should show the "Date of nomination". Fuebaey (talk) 16:38, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Below is an example for the proposed candidates template:

Typhoon Meranti

Proposed image
Date of event: 14 September
Article: Typhoon Meranti (2016)
Blurb: Typhoon Meranti makes landfall in Fujian Province after impacting Batanes and southern Taiwan.
Alternative blurb: Typhoon Meranti (pictured) kills at least 30 people across China, Taiwan, and the Philippines.
News source(s): The Guardian
Nominator: Example (talk • give credit)
 Example 08:14, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
Also pinging the participants of Thryduulf's previous discussion @Isanae, MurielMary, ZettaComposer, Christian Roess, and WaltCip: that haven't already commented here. Fuebaey (talk) 00:36, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose To me, the more logical date is the date of the event, not the date that it was nominated. Since the template is ordered by date of event, it helps both commenters and admins to know when the event happened. --Jayron32 17:23, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Respectfully, that doesn't address the cause of this proposal or the previous one. I think your concerns would be addressed with the edit I also proposed to the candidates template. Do you think that it doesn't or that there is no problem with RD/ITNR nominations sitting for days and going stale due to lack of commentary? Fuebaey (talk) 17:31, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose Jayron has it right, and the late entry of suitable nominations is probably indicative that it's no longer "in the news" or that our readers will no longer be searching for such an item. The analogy to recent deaths is false, often deaths are unheard of or not publicised for various genuine reasons; actual news blurbs are unlikely to be kept hidden for days on end, and if they are they can be dealt with on a case-by-case basis. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose per the reasons given; I think this proposal would be more confusing. 331dot (talk) 22:05, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Support. Being posted even 1 or 2 days late can have a rather dramatic impact on how much discussion an ITN/C gets. Obviously if something is proposed several days late, it has no real chance, but I do think it would be fairer to give each proposal an equal opportunity to be seen at the top of ITN/C. This is especially true of news stories where the event may develop over a few days, so that the news coverage actually builds during the few days after the event rather than simply falling off (e.g. natural disasters where the impact isn't known initially). I don't think the potential for occasional confusion amongst commenters and admins is really so serious that the present ordering must be maintained. Dragons flight (talk) 22:22, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
I would respectfully submit that I don't feel the issue of people not scrolling down is so bad that we have to totally revamp the page. We can't force people to be interested. 331dot (talk) 22:24, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
Obviously we can't force people to comment on items, but it doesn't mean we can't make it easier for those who don't participate regularly here or have ITNC watchlisted. I am struggling to understand how moving where someone submits a nomination, to a layout more similar to the Featured candidates review, is far more confusing than what we have currently. Fuebaey (talk) 00:36, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure making it easier for people with a low level of interest to participate is desirable, nor am I sure this proposal does that. 331dot (talk) 08:58, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Insulating ITN so that it is less accessible seems a bit narrow minded. Why not encourage new editors/commentators to help foster discussion on subjects they wouldn't normally comment on? I don't see a reason why someone would not want to expand viewpoints so that a more broader consensus can develop. Fuebaey (talk) 13:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I think that premature postings of ITN items that are bound to occur rather than late postings creates unnecessary confusion and limitations on discussions, that's usually down to one or two "enthusiastic" nominators who need to wait until the events in question take place. A genuine newsworthy event will not be overlooked. After all that's the point of ITN, to highlight the newsworthy events our readers are looking to learn about. But the cases you have described are few and far between and can always been remedied with a little [Attention needed] in the header if absolutely required. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:26, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Support - This reduces the amount of effort required to read ITN, which can only be a good thing. In a similar way, I would put every new blurb to the top of the ITN box instead of the correct date. Banedon (talk) 01:06, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure a low amount of effort to read ITN is desirable, nor am I sure this accomplishes that, as the date stands out much less than it does now. I think truly interested people should be participating, not just drive-bys and we shouldn't have to make it easy for drive-bys to participate. 331dot (talk) 08:53, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, and in case it escaped anyone's notice, there's a table of contents at the top of the page and because of an ongoing campaign to keep the headers updated (e.g. [Ready], [Closed], [Attention needed] etc), the ToC provides a one-hit glance at the status of every item on the whole page. This is all that is required. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:14, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
Why would you not want to make ITN as readable as possible? Surely you don't think TyPiNg LikE tHIs is something we should have in ITN, even if "truly interested" people can read it. Banedon (talk) 14:28, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
(ec) At some point, we went with collapsing discussions that were either posted or closed in order to make browsing through open items easier but we quickly discontinued this practice as it brought other kind of problems. I believe the current approach is fine. --Tone 14:30, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
I don't follow your argument at all. As far as I'm concerned, it is perfectly readable and this bears all the hallmarks of a solution seeking a problem. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:33, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment presumably this proposal includes updating the 'bot to pick and choose which nominations to archive, rather than those which simply fall off the bottom after seven days? If not, presumably this proposal extends the "newsworthiness" criterion from 7 days to up to 14 days? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:56, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment Would it help that if a ITN item was posted or closed and there was no further comment on it, to move that item to archives and/or to a separate part of the page ("Recently closed nominations"), after a few hours? To me, it's more the lingering but closed nominations that may mask still-open ITN floating near the bottom of the list. --MASEM (t) 20:10, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
    Looking at the table of contents counters this problem. And as you know, news items tend to be somewhat flexible in their notability so simply archiving a closed one which is a few hours/days old is not appropriate. Nothing is "masking" open ITN items, at least not if you're competent editor and can be bothered to spend more than a few seconds reading the page's ToC. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:39, 20 September 2016 (UTC)