Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Systems/Archive 8

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Listed on the bounty board

Copyright improvements on systems articles

Marcel, what's the development since 4 months ago? Can you point us to a current status page? Thx, ----Erkan Yilmaz 13:11, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi Erkan. It is 6 months later, and as far as I can see the problem is solved. I have left it behind me in the archive, see [1]. Now I am hoping to find some people interested to improve those articles. -- Mdd (talk) 23:42, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

biological and social systems

There seem to be many people with a more technical approach here. I would like to weigh in more on the side of natural, self-organizing systems. That may include neurological and social systems, ecologies and human history. I see systems science as a vital analysis tool for all these fields.

Maybe there is some interest in founding a project with this direction? A project would mainly be tasked with inserting hints about systems science-informed viewpoints and links in relevant articles as I see it. That could raise awareness of the many applications of systems (talk) 17:30, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I'd be interested. Was there any development in these 3 months? ----Erkan Yilmaz 13:03, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Why would a seperate project be indicated, and wouldn't the scope of WP:SYS include these aspects? Morton Shumwaytalk 17:54, 1 September 2010 (UTC).

Who is watching and would have time?

Salut, don't want to write on every talk page of participants: who is watching this page + would be willing to start some activities (nothing specific in mind, just looking what your interests would be)? It also helps, if you just say: don't have time at the moment. :-) ----Erkan Yilmaz 20:23, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I just started watching and might list myself as a participant soon. Best, Morton Shumwaytalk 17:57, 1 September 2010 (UTC).
Hi Morton, you are (still) welcome even though this Wiki project is semi-active. -- Mdd (talk) 21:14, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the welcome! See below for some activity on my behalf, part of my interest might become clear by that. Best, Morton Shumwaytalk 21:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC).

todo: Wikibooks Systems Theory

not sure, if listed somewhere already, but one todo could be to review the Wikibooks:Systems Theory, ----Erkan Yilmaz 01:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Definition Feed-forward

This article is of high importance to the project, yet I believe that it lacks a decent definition. I have sketched the issue on the article's talk page in connection with some other minor remarks. I think that everyone here should be qualified to comment—maybe a nice opportunity to bring some life into the project? Best, Morton Shumwaytalk 21:12, 7 September 2010 (UTC).

Internal model and efference copy now part of project scope (and "Hello!")

I am new to this place, so something short about me: I have been doing some minor things on WP and not since very long. I mostly followed the WP:PSY project, since with a background in cognitive science there is some common interest. However, certain ideas are not too common throughout the field, that is why I started having an eye on WP:SYS. I noticed that there is not much going on here at the moment, and I also noticed another user proposing another project with a scope more in biological/social systems. So basically, since the mentioned articles are on subjects that have a strong context in systems theory, even if the flavour may be somewhat less idiosyncratic here, I simply put a template up together with the assessment. I hope I am not being too cheeky? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morton Shumway (talkcontribs) 21:29, 7 September 2010 (UTC) Sure, I should sign this, sorry. Best, Morton Shumwaytalk 21:32, 7 September 2010 (UTC).

Hi Morton, thanks for your input. I hope it works out. I wonder which "other user proposing another project with a scope more in biological/social systems" you mean? -- Mdd (talk) 19:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I was referring to's proposal just a few paragraphs up under "biological and social systems". Best, Morton Shumwaytalk 22:47, 20 September 2010 (UTC).

Systems articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Systems articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

I have taken a look at this list an noticed some article which assessment didn't add up:
-- Mdd (talk) 19:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Articles missing in the listing are:
-- Mdd (talk) 23:37, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
You are working with OLPC? In what ways? (Is this the proper place to ask you about this?) -- Ilias K., Greece 21:28, 3 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpaniardGR (talkcontribs)

Proposed merge to Middleware

I would appreciate comments on the proposed merger of Enterprise service bus, Message-oriented middleware and Message broker to the Middleware article at the merger dicussion. prat (talk) 07:01, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I have given my laymen's opinion. An other expert opinion would be welcome. -- Mdd (talk) 20:21, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

to help in wifi ideas

If you have to explain that what its idea then i will help in them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

General Systems Theory

I guess Wikipedia should have a decent article about General Systems Theory. -- Mdd (talk) 23:25, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Opinions wanted at Talk:Particle swarm optimization

There are some disagreements over whether we should include a section of external links to all the relevant open source projects.:

We could use some objective opinions from this WikiProject.

Thanks! --A. B. (talkcontribs) 12:33, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi A.B. You must have noticed I have give retreated my comment on the talk page. I am no fan of these kinds of external links, but I guess there can be exceptions. Because I am unable to give an expert judgement, I have asked Jiuguang Wang, see here. There is little more I can add to here. Good luck. -- Mdd (talk) 21:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I think your comments, pro or con, are just as valid as others', especially given your familiarity with and experience editing this class of articles. I appreciate your inviting Jiugang Wang but I also encourage you to comment yourself. I don't think any of the rest of us are any more expert than you are and some have less editorial experience than you have.--A. B. (talkcontribs) 21:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I thank you for your warm invitation, but frankly I don't feel comfortable adding a comment if I haven't read the whole discussion. If you would have a vote, I would vote against it. But just giving a comment, and then just leave is also not what I want. I have come to an understanding that these things are complicated... even though they seem simple. -- Mdd (talk) 22:10, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject cleanup listing

I have created together with Smallman12q a toolserver tool that shows a weekly-updated list of cleanup categories for WikiProjects, that can be used as a replacement for WolterBot and this WikiProject is among those that are already included (because it is a member of Category:WolterBot cleanup listing subscriptions). See the tool's wiki page, this project's listing in one big table or by categories and the index of WikiProjects. Svick (talk) 20:26, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to participate!

Hello! As you may be aware, the Wikimedia Foundation is gearing up for our annual fundraiser. We want to hit our goal, and hit it as soon as possible, so that we can focus on Wikipedia's tenth anniversary (January 15) and on our new project, the Contribution Team.

I'm posting across WikiProjects to engage you, the community, in working to build Wikipedia not only through financial donations, but also through collaboration in building content. You can find more information in Philippe Beaudette's memo to the communities here.

Please visit the Contribution Team page and the Fundraising page to find out how you can help us support and spread free knowledge. DanRosenthal Wikipedia Contribution Team 18:17, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Template:Optimization algorithms

I removed a lot of heuristics from this template, because those removed are not discussed as important in optimization textbooks and journals (regardless of their merits in IEEE transactions on swarming fireflies, etc.). Second opinions would be desirable. Thanks! Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 11:12, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikiversity course/Membership


I am interested in Systems Science and looking for ways to learn more about this and related fields. Have you ever considered setting up a Systems course in Wikiversity ?

Also, I have never been a member of any WikiProject before - how may I become a member of this one?

Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpaniardGR (talkcontribs) 22:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. Doing something in Wikiversity is a great idea! (However, the project is not very active at the moment, and I personally would not have the time to do a course now.)
You can easily become a project member by 1. regularly looking at this page (you can put it on your watchlist), 2. doing some work on articles which are in the project's scope, 3. adding your name to the list at the project page.
Wish you all the best, Morton Shumwaytalk 17:51, 1 February 2011 (UTC).
Many thanks!-but why is the project semi-active? Ilias K., Greece 21:44, 1 February 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by SpaniardGR (talkcontribs)
Good question. I guess this project is semi-inactive because there is not much innovation initiated from here in the last two years. A lot of work has been done, and different items have been installed. I personally have returned to the Dutch Wikipedia were I have been continuing improving articles. -- Mdd (talk) 01:14, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Wikiversity (WV): you can find learning material here: wikiversity: Category:Systems theory, e.g. a recent seminar held this year was: wikiversity: Complex socio-ecological systems (by the University of Florida)
Also: WV is a wiki, which means, anyone can create or participate learning materials, ----Erkan Yilmaz 08:07, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Citation templates now support more identifiers

Recent changes were made to citations templates (such as {{citation}}, {{cite journal}}, {{cite web}}...). In addition to what was previously supported (bibcode, doi, jstor, isbn, ...), templates now support arXiv, ASIN, JFM, LCCN, MR, OL, OSTI, RFC, SSRN and Zbl. Before, you needed to place |id={{arxiv|0123.4567}} (or worse |url=, now you can simply use |arxiv=0123.4567, likewise for |id={{JSTOR|0123456789}} and |url=|jstor=0123456789.

The full list of supported identifiers is given here (with dummy values):

{{cite journal |author=John Smith |year=2000 |title=How to Put Things into Other Things |journal=Journal of Foobar |volume=1 |issue=2 |pages=3–4 |arxiv=0123456789 |asin=0123456789 |bibcode=0123456789 |doi=0123456789 |jfm=0123456789 |jstor=0123456789 |lccn=0123456789 |isbn=0123456789 |issn=0123456789 |mr=0123456789 |oclc=0123456789 |ol=0123456789 |osti=0123456789 |rfc=0123456789 |pmc=0123456789 |pmid=0123456789 |ssrn=0123456789 |zbl=0123456789 |id={{para|id|____}} }}

Obviously not all citations needs all parameters, but this streamlines the most popular ones and gives both better metadata and better appearances when printed. Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 03:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK: Criss-cross algorithm for linear optimization

A new article on the Criss-cross algorithm for linear optimization has been nominated for Did You Know?:

A (three-dimensional) cube

Your comments and corrections are especially welcome. Best regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz  (Discussion) 03:50, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Causal model - deletions being made without discussion

The causal model stub, ranked high importance by Mdd, has been subject to deletions by Pgr94, which I have undone. While the stub could be improved, Pgr94 has made no attempt to discuss these deletions or made any suggestions for improvement to the article. I fail to see how these types of deletion contribute to the development of any article. I think that if Pgr94 wants to improve the article then he/she should make some attempt to add to it. --Logicalgregory (talk) 06:24, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

And so has he done: quadrupled the size of the article from an extremely short stub, to merely a stub.linas (talk) 02:06, 29 July 2012 (UTC)


I would like to merge isometric projection into axonometric projection since I think too much of the articles' content is duplicated. Thoughts? SharkD  Talk  19:48, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Systems Identification Techniques

I'm not the most knowledgeable of this subject but I think a category or some other type of grouping for system identification techniques could be useful. Recently I created the page for Eigensystem realization algorithm and want to make one for frequency domain decomposition as well. I don't know what other techniques are used in the field though, so any help would be useful. Know anymore? Zfeinst (talk) 03:57, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Featured article candidate

The article Shapley–Folkman_lemma is nominated for Featured Article status, and the usual Featured-Article reviewers are not mathematical scientists. Therefore, your comments would be especially valuable, particularly for deciding whether the article meets the FA criteria. Your criticism/suggestions/bold improvements would all be welcome.

Optimization/OR people are especially needed! :)

  1. Please help with the short section on optimization, which is written in summary style.
  2. The applications in economics and probability/vector measures may be interesting, particularly to those of you who've worked with bang-bang controls.

Thanks for your help, in my hour of need ....  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:15, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Data science

Ambox warning yellow.svg

The article Data science has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

unsourced, very little content

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Bearian (talk) 20:38, 26 October 2011 (UTC)