Talk:Dorset

Peer Review

Brianboulton comments

General

• The link in ref 20 appears to be broken. I cannot access the page.
• The most immediate area for attention is references. Throughout the article there are paragraphs that end without a citation, which gives the impression that many statements are unsourced. The "Education" section carries an "unreferenced" banner because it has no refs at all.
• There are several citations in the lead. It would be better if these facts were cited when they occur in the main text; the lead should be a broad summary of the article, and should contain nothing that is not contained within the main text.
• In the list of citations, formats should be consistent. For example, the retrieval dates in 1 and 2 are differently formatted.
• Arkell, listed in the "references", is not a cited source and should be listed as "Further reading". Likewise Davies, Dwyer, Perkins, Pitt-Rivers and Taylor. Encyclopædia Britannica and West are websites and should be formatted in the same style as the other online sources, though I don't see any citations to these, either. The impression is given that the article has been amended, but that the sources have not been updated.

Prose issues

I have not carried out a detailed prose check, but from a quick reading it doesn't look too bad. Here are a few points:-

• There is a tendency towards too many very short paragraphs; see in particular "Economy and industry". The "Culture" section has a single line paragraph.
• Awkward phrasing: just a few examples from early on:-
  • "The county town has been Dorchester since at least 1305, situated in the south of the county."
  • "Dorset's high chalk hills have provided a location for defensive settlements for millennia, there are Neolithic and Bronze Age burial mounds on almost every chalk hill in the county, and a number of Iron Age hill forts, the most famous being Maiden Castle, constructed around 600BC." Everlasting sentence needs splitting and repunctuating. There is a general tendency towards overlong sentences.
  • "Dorset was fortified with the construction of..." Should be "by" not "with"
  • "The climate of Dorset has warm summers..." Climates don't "have"
• Although tourism is mentioned in the Economy section, one would have expected to see something about the development of tourism as an industry in the History section.

Images

These look generally Ok, but File:Abbotsbury, Dorset - Tithe Barn.jpg lacks source information and name of author. Not clear that the author was the uploader, and why is the "last version" date earlier than the "first version" date?

These are all areas to work on. I would also recommend a full copyedit and prose check. There is no reason why this should not become featured again, though GA might be a useful interim stp. As you have a limited and very recent edit history with this article it may be appropriate for you to work with other active recent editors, although the principal contributor seems long gone, at least as far as this article is concerned. Brianboulton (talk) 14:56, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to review this article. I will copy your comments to the article's talk page in case other editors feel inclined to contribute.--Ykraps (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Forest clearance - unsuitable reference

There's a sentence in the 'History' section of this article which is unsatisfactorily vague ("The chalk downs would have been deforested in the Iron Age"). Would have been? Would have been but for what? I intended to change it to something more assertive such as "The chalk downs were deforested..." or "The chalk downs were largely deforested....", and so looked at the Dorset For You page which is provided as a reference to back up this asssertion, to see what it said, but unfortunately this reference refers only to the heathlands, and their clearance in the Bronze Age. Either I missed something when reading it, or this reference is unsuitable as a back-up for this claim. Can someone provide a more apposite reference? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello PaleCloudWhite, that sentence initially carried a reference from 'History of Dorset' but I was unable to find any mention of deforestation of the chalklands in the book. I therefore intended to rewrite the sentence to say, "Parts of Dorset......". I added a reference but forgot to alter the sentence.--Ykraps (talk) 15:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Sources for Education section

I intended to fix the education up myself now that I've found some sources (by which I mean, I emailed county of Dorset and begged for help finding sources...), but it's becoming increasingly clear to me as I stare at them that I'm not up to parsing and describing the British education system, as an American. Hopefully someone else can make use of these (mostly primary, but they're for hard facts anyway) sources to support the section and get the article back to FA. I'd be happy to help with locating more distinct bits of info from the morasses that are the local websites if someone else can help me mold them into supportable article content:

• "Admissions to Dorset Schools: A Parents' guide 2010-2011". Dorset County Council. http://www.dorsetforyou.com/media.jsp?mediaid=138839&filetype=pdf. Retrieved 2 June 2011. 
• "Dorset School Pyramids/Area". Dorset County Council. http://www.dorsetforyou.com/media.jsp?mediaid=138961&filetype=pdf. Retrieved 2 June 2011. 
• "Schools and colleges". Dorset County Council. http://www.dorsetforyou.com/5139. Retrieved 2 June 2011. 

• Top level of Dorset County schools information. Tons available in subpages of this site section
• Overview of Dorset school system
• Top level for Bournemouth schools, which operate independently. Sourcing for particular details probably available with digging down
• Top level for Poole schools, which operate independently. Sourcing for particular details probably available with digging down

A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 19:37, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello Fluffernutter, thanks for the sources. We are moving through the article slowly and will no doubt get to the education section in due course. Thanks once again--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the list of sources, Fluffernutter. I've rewritten this section and hopefully it doesn't contain any inaccuracies. I found that Somerset (which I think is the only featured English county article) provided some inspiration. Barret (talk) 15:10, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Tourism v. agriculture - question about text

There's a statement in the article's introduction ("Initially agricultural, tourism is now the primary industry") which is slightly at odds with a statement at the end of the 'History' section ("tourism now rivals agriculture as the main economy of the county"). The former suggests supremacy, the latter parity. Although on the face of it the difference may appear subtle, I think nevertheless it warrants a change in wording in one of the statements, to ensure they both say exactly the same thing (i.e. the truth, which might need investigating/clarifying). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 05:33, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I see that as a contradiction. Just because two industries compete it doesn't make them equal. There was virtually no tourism in the county until circa 1800 and the main industry was overwhelmingly agriculture. Since the arrival of the railways, tourism has increased and now brings in more wealth (but not overwhelmingly more) than farming but agriculture is still a major industry. However, I am not against rewording the statements if you feel it would clarify the situation.--Ykraps (talk) 09:32, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

Toolbox
dashboard disambig links external links See WP:DEADREF for dead URLs

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dorset/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jaguar (talk) 10:45, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

---

This is a nice and well referenced article.

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. References to sources:

   B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

   B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

I like Dorset. I'll take a look at the article over a few days and then I will leave some initial comments. I got some real life stuff to do today, so I'll leave the first initial comments in a few hours. Jaguar (talk) 10:45, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Initial comments

Lead:

• "The towns of Bournemouth and Christchurch joined the county with the reorganisation of local government in 1974." - you could mention that the two towns were pinched from Hampshire? (Done) although this is mentioned later in the Settlements section.
• "In 1348 the black death came ashore at Melcombe Regis and subsequently killed a third of the population of England." - this might confuse some readers. Did the black death actually arrive at Melcombe Regis and then spread through the whole of England or did it just stay in the area and arrived somewhere else? (Clarified) Yes the black death was carried to Weymouth by a ship from the continent. It is widely held that it spread from there across the rest of the country.
• "Dorset has seen much civil unrest: the first trade union was formed by farm labourers from Tolpuddle," - this is intresting, but it doesn't mentioned when the first trade union was set up?(Done)

History:

• "A large defensive ditch, Bokerley Dyke, delayed the Saxon conquest of Dorset for up to 150 years." - the sentence does not explain why it delayed the Saxon conquest of Dorset. (Done)
• "Melcombe Regis, now part of Weymouth, was a busy port at this time and it was in July 1348 that a ship from the continent brought with it the bubonic plague." - it might be better to mention the black death in the sentence instead of the bubonic plague. Or maybe include both? (Done)
• "Since the early 19th century, when George III took holidays in Weymouth, Dorset's tourism industry has grown" was George III the reason why Dorset's tourism industry had grown? (Done)
• "with the seaside resorts of Bournemouth and Weymouth the Jurassic Coast and the county's sparsely populated rural areas, attracting millions of visitors each year." - the sentence started with the early 19 century. Please remember that Bournemouth and Weymouth did not become part of Dorset until 1974. This may cause some confusion with readers. (Done)

Settlements:

• "Bournemouth, the most populous town in the conurbation, was created in the Georgian era" - 'created' can't be a good word. There were probably already settlements in Bournemouth before the Georgian era, so how about 'expanded' or 'built'? (Done - Established?) Purely as a matter of interest, Bournemouth 'sprang' into existance. It was desolate heathland in 1810 and a thriving health resort with a population of 20,000 + by 1880.

Right, I must have got confused with Christchurch! Jaguar (talk) 10:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, Christchurch has a long history of settlement and it too benefitted from George III's patronage.--Ykraps (talk) 16:50, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Physical geography:

• "The field, operated by BP from Wytch Farm, has the world's oldest continuously pumping well (Kimmeridge, since the early 1960s) " - has the well been pumping since the early 1960s or was that when it was first built? (Clarified)
• "The county has the highest proportion of conservation areas in England—including an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (44% of the whole county)" - if the sentence is trying to boast about having the largest conservation areas in the country, I have done some research and it appears that Dorset is not alone. The Cotswolds is the largest AONB in the country, and it is not in Dorset. Also, the South Downs covers 45% of neighbouring Hampshire, which is more than 44%. That is just a thought though, I understand that Dorset is trying to advertise many of its national parks, but there is more arond the corner! (Done) - The ANOB mentioned is only one conservation area which on its own covers 44% of the county. However, I have rewritten the sentence to make it less ambiguous and added additional references. It now also reads 'one of.....', which should make it less contentious.

Demographics:

• This is a great section with tables, as expected for a demography section, are already there. I can't really spot any problems here.
• "Between 1998 and 2004 Poole borough experienced a decline in its population caused by continuing negative rates of natural increase and falls in the level of net migration." - what does 'natural increase' mean in this sentence? (Done) The difference between births and deaths.

Politics:

• Be careful of overlinking in this article. So far there are too many links! (Done) I am not a fan of unnecessary links but I feel that most of the linking here is appropriate. I have however managed to find 9 links it could do without and hope this is sufficient.
• "the council comprises 21 Conservative, 18 Liberal Democrat and three Poole People councillors" - who are the 'Poole People'? Are they political or residents of Poole? (Done) Poole People is a political party which is now explained in the article.
• "Conservative safe seats and are all represented by Conservative Members of Parliament (MPs)." - asuming the reader knows what an MP is, there is no need to describe one! (Done)

Economy and industry:

• "The military presence has had a mixed effect on the local economy bringing additional employment for civilians but on occasion having a negative impact on the tourist trade" - why did it have a negative impact on tourist trade? (Done) Example given in text.
• "There are plans to relocate the Royal School of Signals by 2012 which could result in a loss of up to £74M GVA for the area." - this is interesting. But it doesn't say where it is going to be relocated. (Done) S. Wales.

Culture:

• Again, be careful of overlinking in this section. Cutting down a few links wouldn't hurt. (Done) I have removed 15 links from this section.
• "The National Trust owns Thomas Hardy's Cottage, in woodland east of Dorchester," - this sentence makes no sense. What is 'woodland' referring to? (Done) There is a patch of woodland to the east of Dorchester where the cottage is situated. I have rewritten this rather clumsy sentence.

On hold

This is a popular article that gains around 27,420 readers a month. There is much to congratulate about this article as it once was a Featured one. There is a lot of material that has been sourced and placed within the right sections of the article. The prose of the article is very good and is very easy to read. The images are high quality and its captions are appropiate. As it once had FA status, Dorset does not need that much work as expected. The subject matter is quite large, as Dorset is a popular county in the UK and it has a high profile.

The only issues I can find with the article are some of the sentences the need copyediting as I mentioned above. I will put this article on hold for seven days. Once those minor (ish) issues have been addressed, I will be happy to give it its long deserved GA status. I wish it the very best of luck doing that! Jaguar (talk) 15:02, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Close - promoted

There have been massive improvements to the article, I simply wish to congratulate that. The article definitely meets the GA criteria. The lead complies per WP:LEAD, all the sections of the article are very easy to read and the topic of Dorset is very knowledgeable. I must admit that when I was reading the article I learned somethings about Dorset I never knew. Overall, the article is very well done. Even if it meets the GA criteria, I think that Dorset might be on the road to getting back its Featured Article status. Very well done on the extra work. Jaguar (talk) 09:42, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

That's fantastic news, thank you. I am sure I will eventually attempt to get it back to FA but I think I'll have a bit of a rest first.--Ykraps (talk) 09:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)