Talk:Jimmy Wales

If you need to contact Jimbo about something, please do so at his talk page, not here. As Jimbo explains... "People who are trying to leave messages for me will likely be more satisfied if they leave messages on my user talk page than if they leave them here. This is the talk page for the article about me, not a place to talk to me. I rarely read this. --Jimbo Wales 06:05, 23 August 2005 (UTC)"

Birthdate discussions can be found Talk:Jimmy Wales/Birthdate

A few comments

• It is very unusual to be born "Jimmy", is it definitely not "James" or "Jim" or "Jamie"?
• There should be an IPA as "Donal" is likely to be mispronounced by many.
• There isn't anything about his ethnicity. His surname is of Welsh origin and his middle name is Gaelic, some sources should mention his origin.
• The image with the caption "Wales appearing as a member of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees on a panel at Wikimania 2007." should be moved to the right so he is facing towards the text. Spiderone 11:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

On the first point, I'm not sure we imply that Jimmy is his birthname at any point, just the most common name; Britannica does the same by leading with "Jimmy Donal Wales". The Florida Trend is the source of our "Jimmy Donal "Jimbo" Wales".

I agree that an IPA would be an improvement.

I don't remember seeing references to his ethnicity in the sources, but I will look again.

On the last point; according to MOS:IMAGE, "It is often preferable to place images of faces so that the face or eyes look toward the text." Wales' eyes are looking to the right in the image, and so should the image not be on the left so that the text is to its right?

Thanks for the comments!  Skomorokh  13:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes you're right about the image. I just saw that his body was facing left and assumed his eyes were too. About his ancestry, surely Jimbo himself views this page. Could he not add his own ancestry? I've searched the internet by putting things like "Jimmy Wales" + "Welsh" in but nothing comes up. Spiderone 15:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

We generally discourage editors from writing about themselves per the conflict of interest guideline; in general it is difficult for editors to be impartial on the subject, and what they add from their own personal knowledge is often not independently verifiable. So we would need independent reliable sources to confirm any info about Wales' ethnicity. I haven't found anything either, unfortunately.  Skomorokh  15:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

@Spiderone: As far as I am aware, the only reliable source which has ever claimed that he is Welsh is "Milk, biscuits and thinking of Sydney... What else would we expect Rob Brydon's interests to be?" by Robin Turner, The Western Mail, 5 December 2008, page 12.

“ In all there are 18 new Welsh entrants in the 2009 version of [Who's Who], which sees celebrities rubbing shoulders with artists, ambassadors and air vice-marshals. [...] There's comedian Rob Brydon, judge Tudor WynOwen, Specsavers co-owner and MD Doug Perkins, Rev Geoffrey Osbourne Marshall, actor Daniel Wroughton Craig, Mary Berry the TV cook, Pink Floyd co-founder David Gilmour, Annie Nightingale the veteran DJ, football pundit Mark Lawrenson and Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales. ”

Daniel Craig isn't at all Welsh. Spiderone 17:17, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Try searching combinations of those names. If you find two other reliable sources which mention him as being Welsh, we can include the information per WP:V. Ottre 20:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I can't find anything but I've added an IPA Spiderone 07:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How many Welsh newspapers have you searched? Also, it's condescending to tell people how to pronounce Jimmy. Ottre 09:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes but then won't non-English speakers be confused by "Jimmy Wales (pronounced Donal Wales)"? Spiderone 17:12, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Suggest adding Mr. Wales more current activities Green Wikia [1]

From Wikia Wikia Green ... Wikia Green is a wiki operated by Wikia, Inc. focusing on environmental issues. Jimmy Wales started the project after a conversation with environmentalist activist and politician Al Gore, who suggested creating a green wiki.. "Wikipedia Founder Goes Green" announced on 9th of September, 2008 by 350.org regarding a new wiki.

It never went anywhere, did it?  Skomorokh  21:28, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Nope. "788 articles since March 2008". Another wiki(a)-failure, much heralded at launch, but then quietly withering away to obscurity. The Google God has blessed only Wikipedia (so far ...) . -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 22:30, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup

There's a dead link from 2008 and a needs updating tag from 2007. Rich Farmbrough, 21:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC).

"Clarification needed"

In the early development subsection of the Wikipedia section, the sentence "Wales has said that he initially was so worried with the concept that he would wake up in the middle of the night, wanting to check the site for vandalism" is tagged with {{clarification needed}}. From the source:

[Newsweek:] Weren’t you worried about what would be put up there? [Wales:] Yes, when I first started I would actually wake up at night to go down and check what was being posted.

What clarification is required here?  Skomorokh  23:09, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I've reworded it to "Wales has said that he was initially so worried with the concept of open editing that he would awake during the night and monitor what was being added." I hope this is sufficiently clear.  Skomorokh 

Thanks for trying, but that's not much clearer. Wales was unsure whether people would fully embrace the wiki technology if they were working for free. Your sentence makes it seem like he was worried about vandalism per se. Per WP:NPOV tutorial, views must be summarized as if by its proponents to their best ability. I'm reinstating the tag. Ottre 00:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

How do you defend your interpretation ("Wales was unsure whether people would fully embrace the wiki technology if they were working for free") based on the source? From what I can see the interview does not mention "working for free" at all; Wales does refer, however, to WP being "a Web site that anyone can edit".  Skomorokh, barbarian  05:14, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Synthesized from a number of early interviews which aren't included in the article. If you go through the Factiva database you'll see what I mean. Ottre 05:48, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

...How is that Newsweek interview a reliable source? It's clearly not fact-checked, and doesn't go into nearly as much detail about the production model as the Bruce Cole interview ("Building a Community of Knowledge" by Bruce Cole [2], Humanities magazine, Mar/Apr 2007, Vol. 28, Iss. 2, pp 6-14) Ottre 06:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Some omissions on article's coverage of the founder debate

I hate to open this can of worms again, but our (justly brief) paragraph on the matter at Jimmy Wales#Controversy is somewhat lacking from a reader's perspective. September 27, 2009 version, minus citations:

Wales has asserted that he is the sole founder of Wikipedia, and has publicly disputed Sanger's designation as a co-founder. Sanger and Wales were identified as co-founders at least as early as September 2001 by The New York Times and as founders in Wikipedia's first press release in January 2002. In August of that year, Wales identified himself as "co-founder" of Wikipedia. Sanger assembled on his personal webpage an assortment of links with the intent of proving conclusively that he was a co-founder. Wales was quoted by The Boston Globe as calling Sanger's claim as "preposterous" in February 2006, and called "the whole debate silly" in an April 2009 interview.

1. It does not tell us when Wales started making a fuss about being credited as the sole founder, or why. Did he feel he was being done out of his life's work? Was his position/authority in the project under internal threat? Was he trying to leverage sole founder status for some external purpose?
2. How do authoritative impartial commentators familiar with the matter judge it?
3. It does not tell us why the issue matters. So, imagining I am a reader somewhat familiar with Wikipedia and this Wales character, and interested in learning more about him, why should I care about this business? This section should tell the reader something illuminating about Wales, and not simply report the he said/she said. Some critical (in the evaluative rather than negative sense) perspective is needed.

Any insights supported by sources welcome, keeping WP:NOTAFORUM in mind. Cheers,  Skomorokh  01:54, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

1. According to Larry Sanger "It was not until 2004 that Jimmy Wales began omitting mention of my involvement at the start of Wikipedia to the press in 2004, and he didn't start denying that I am co-founder until 2005 or 2006, just when Wikipedia began to enter the public eye.". The external purpose was, well, the _Wall Street Journal_ said this, not me: "Now, Wikipedia is one of the most popular sites on the Web, and Mr. Wales is building on its success with a new venture. This time, he intends to make a buck."

2. I've already endured some extreme nastiness over concepts like "authoritative" and "impartial". But I can objectively state that I've spent an extensive amount of time reviewing the historical record, querying the parties to the dispute, and considering their positions. As a matter of morality and justice, I took it very, very, seriously. Truth is not anywhere near the middle here. I judge it 100% - 0% Sanger - Wales. Further, I've found some of Wales's argument at best extremely legalistic, and at worse, well, I don't want to violate WP:NPA.

3. There's many reasons why it matters. a) An encyclopedia should have its facts straight (and the co-founder fact has been subjected to an extensive PR campaign to deny it). b) It says something about Wales's character, significant to the public interest c) There's a broad, difficult issue having to do with the tensions between Wikipedia's roots in a combination of business (Wales) and philosophy (Sanger). -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 03:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Just compare the account in The Dallas Morning News / August 18, 2004 "Wikipedia.org co-founder Jimmy Wales ... Mr. Wales and co-founder Larry Sanger built the project as a "wiki" ..." versus Forbes December 13, 2004 "Jimmy Wales, the founder of the Wikipedia, ... Ultimately, Wales and Larry Sanger, a professor whom Wales had hired ... So Wales has recently started two for-profit wiki companies." and Press Release February 4, 2005 "Wikipedia founder launches commercial enterprise ... Jimmy Wales, founder of Wikipedia and President of the Wikimedia Foundation ..." -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 11:56, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, if people are uncomfortable citing Sanger's own website, similar material can be found the interview he did with "Hot Press" magazine, "Citizen Sanger" (paywalled), e.g. "Then in about 2005, he began actually denying that I was co-founder, which was something I found very disconcerting and incredibly brazen - what chutzpah!" -- Seth Finkelstein (talk) 22:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Yale Daily News interview

Poor quality piece, but posting here for future reference: "Meet Jimmy Wales, Founder of Wikipedia". Although I chuckled at the subheading  Skomorokh, barbarian  17:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Unofficial request for comment about co-founder/sole founder dispute

Co-founder/sole founder dispute rumbles Wikipedia

• 04:51, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) List of Auburn University people ‎ (→Alumni: nothing to do with co founder dispute which it was removed last year)
• 04:50, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Huntsville, Alabama ‎ (→Notable residents and famous natives: nothing to do with the dispute)
• 04:48, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) 1966 ‎ (Undid revision 292265427 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:48, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Dopplr ‎ (Undid revision 292265970 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:48, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Birla Institute of Technology and Science ‎ (Undid revision 292266526 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:48, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Kelley School of Business ‎ (Undid revision 292272282 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:48, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) List of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! episodes (2006) ‎ (Undid revision 292320956 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:47, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) American School in Japan ‎ (→Misc. Info: article has no relation to co-founder dispute)
• 04:46, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Society for Technical Communication ‎ (Undid revision 292369674 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:46, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Criticism of Microsoft ‎ (Undid revision 292369754 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:46, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) PR-e-Sense ‎ (Undid revision 292369952 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:46, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Diplopedia ‎ (Undid revision 292370091 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:45, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) June 1, 2005 ‎ (Undid revision 292370239 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:45, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Poduniversal ‎ (Undid revision 292370021 by QuackGuru (talk))
• 04:44, 26 May 2009 (hist | diff) Hot Press ‎ (nothing to do with the co-founder dispute come on QG you know better Undid revision 292369868 by QuackGuru (talk))

• 05:13, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Hot Press ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:13, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Poduniversal ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:13, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) June 1, 2005 ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful) (top)
• 05:12, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Society for Technical Communication ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:12, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Criticism of Microsoft ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:09, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) American School in Japan ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:08, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) List of Auburn University people ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:08, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Dopplr ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:08, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) 1966 ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:07, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) List of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! episodes (2006) ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:07, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Birla Institute of Technology and Science ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)
• 05:06, 4 June 2009 (hist | diff) Kelley School of Business ‎ (making false statements isnt helpful)

After the content dispute was over an editor went back to several articles and rewrote history (revisionism). The editor previously acknowledged Jimmy Wales is historically cosidered the co-founder of Wikipedia. QuackGuru (talk) 19:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

This user conduct dispute does not belong on this talkpage; the issue has been settled again and again and again as far as this article is concerned. Take it to WP:RFC/U, WP:AIN, anywhere but here, please.  Skomorokh, barbarian  19:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)