Talk:Georgia (country)

Requested move 17 January 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close, move discussions should be held at Talk:Georgia, and the initiator is a blocked sock. CMD (talk) 18:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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Georgia (country) → Georgia – First of all, being a country, it has the highest of all priviledges, not to have a one noun defination alongside, here, "(country)". Secondly, Like when someone types "Jordan", Wikipedia doesn't re directs the user/visitor to the company or something else. If it is not done, then it would be partiality. उत्कर्ष555 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC) उत्कर्ष555 (talk) 16:37, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I mean really, who types "United States (country)", or "India (country)". This is not logical. Even when you type "Imran Khan", it redirects you to prime minister of Pakistan, instead of disambiguated list. Please, take notice of this. उत्कर्ष555 (talk) 16:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• There are no other definitions of "United States" that someone would expect an article titled United States to be about. So the United States can get an article without dis-ambiguation; it's clearly the primary meaning of that phrase. Georgia guy (talk) 16:47, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

• Weak oppose per my arguments last time. Perhaps Jordan should be a DAB as the name is also common though the country gets many more views (103,666) than the name (2,474). Georgia, the name may be less common but its not unheard of. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Good faith nomination, but please check out our naming guidelines. I'll accept that we're probably doomed to rehash this every six months or so (it looks like the last one was in July). There is no primary topic among common usage in English language sources, and arguably none among long term notability. Disambgiuation is designed to aid reader navigation -- in this case, it would do the opposite. If this was a matter of having no choice but to pick one topic, contrary to our guidelines, then I can see it being logical we would pick the country. But in this case, it does not meet the incredibly high disparity we expect from a primary topic. --Yaksar (let's chat) 17:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• To the nominator though, who appears to be new and this appears in genuine good faith: Wikipedia's page naming guidelines can admittedly be complicated! I would check out Wikipedia:Disambiguation for a general sense of how we make these sort of decisions, which can involve assessing multiple factors. --Yaksar (let's chat) 17:42, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
• Support, I do think the country is more significant by page views and long-term significance. Side not, I really wish Sakartvelo was more used in the west to be honest.--Ortizesp (talk) 17:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2022

Change "Georgia applied for EU membership on March 3, 2020" to "Georgia applied for EU membership on March 3, 2022" under Foreign relations headline. The year is currently wrong. Utl94 (talk) 08:10, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

 Done CMD (talk) 08:47, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2022

Georgia joined the Eurovision Song Contest in 2007. 2A00:23C6:538E:2200:84B0:B77B:F7EC:D621 (talk) 20:44, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:51, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 24 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural close, move discussions should be held at Talk:Georgia per the banner at the top of this talkpage. (non-admin closure) CMD (talk) 12:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

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Georgia (country) → Georgia – This is the only article that is needing a noun to be described as a unique article. The same doesn't happens with other nations like Jordan despite having itself a more disambiguation. I think it is better to remove the noun. Think from a layman's point of view: A nation needing a noun alongside to be titled, which is sandwiched between Aisa and Europe. Please think over it. Again. Utkarsh555 10:56, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

First move that "disambiguation page", then take action on this one. Utkarsh555 10:57, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

• Weak oppose per last time, no primary topic in English. Per WP:ATDAB a noun or other qualifier is needed if its not primary which it doesn't appear to be. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:01, 24 April 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose in view of all the reasons summarized from previous discussions (including one about the same proposal as yours less than a year ago) at the top of this talk page. Largoplazo (talk) 11:56, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Accuracy of "Constituent Republics" for USSR

The section on the time after the 1917 revolution states that Georgia was part of the "fifteen constituent republics" of the Soviet Union in 1922. This is not correct: In 1922, the Soviet Union only had 6 member republics (Belarus, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan). Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan joined in 1924, Tajikistan in 1929, Kirgistan and Kazakhstan in 1936, and the three Baltic republics plus Moldova in 1940. This is confirmed by the link under "fifteen constituent republics". Suggestion: Change to "six constituent republics". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Klausson (talk • contribs) 18:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I have removed the number, which seems the best solution given the changing number over time. CMD (talk) 02:10, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Good solution. Labrang (talk) 11:02, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

New lede material?

• "... is a country located in the Caucasus, at the intersection of Eastern Europe and Western Asia, identifying itself as European.[10]"

How exactly are the words in bold, added by user:Labrang,[1]-[2] relevant to the very first sentence of this article? - LouisAragon (talk) 23:48, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

The cited opinion piece (not Carnegie's own stance) states some interesting things which I will leave here, for the record:[3]

• "Most Georgians enthusiastically think of being European as a positive attribute. According to the Carnegie-Mikeladze survey, 78 percent of them say they believe that joining the EU is a good idea because “Georgians will become more European.”"[4]

• "These perceptions have also nurtured an illusion that the West bears a moral duty of solidarity toward Georgians as inhabitants of an ancient Christian nation. One strain of Georgian thought takes pride in the country being on the periphery of Europe, visualizing it as an outpost and defender of European civilization. In seeking to overcome a peripheral fate, Georgian political elites have frequently reassured themselves, ordinary Georgians, and Western partners alike that they are “the most ancient Europeans,” in the words of scholar Giorgi Maisuradze."

• "In other words, some Georgians believe that Georgia can compensate for lagging behind the West in terms of modernization by possessing ancient and Christian traditions. They assert a more conservative, backward-looking notion of what it means to be European than would be recognizable to most Western Europeans, with their predominantly secular values. Yet this Christian and European conception of Georgia also is meant to distinguish the country from its regional neighbors. Georgia’s Western aspirations are not premised only on the idea of escaping from a destructive Russia. These aspirations also imply a distancing from the neighboring, mostly Muslim ethnic groups in the mountains of the North Caucasus and from Azerbaijan and Turkey, whose Islamic traditions are overlaid with a comparatively secular culture."

• "Overall, it seems that general support in Georgia for European integration stems more from expectations of economic prosperity than an endorsement of European values."

- LouisAragon (talk) 18:37, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

Historian Stephen H. Rapp Jr wrote some stuff about this too:[5]

In 2007, the Department of Tourism of the Georgian Republic unveiled a flashy campaign emblazoned with the slogan “Europe Started Here.” An expression of post-Soviet globalization, the multimedia extravaganza was crafted by the New York–based advertising firm Saatchi and Saatchi. Commercials and advertisements celebrated Georgia’s long history, its ancient connections to “Europe,” and its status as a gateway to the “East.” “Europe Started Here” is an intriguing index of the Georgian self-imagination and its transnational redeployment at the dawn of the 21st century. Elements of this image are recent inventions, but others have deep, meandering historical roots. Indeed, Georgia’s representation as a beleaguered outpost of Christian Europe ultimately stems from the medieval and late antique periods, when the Georgians’ entangled ties to the Byzantine, Iranian, and Islamic worlds were interpreted in a variety of ways. By contrast, the idea of Georgia’s innate attachment to “Europe” springs chiefly from the national awakenings of the 18th and 19th centuries, an age when European, Christian, and imperial identities were ompacted into a master narrative celebrating a privileged “Western Civilization.” (...) Not surprisingly, Georgia’s rich history has been investigated from a (Christian) European perspective ever since. Relegated to the edge of Europe, privileging visions of ethnocentrism, presentism, and the nation-state have further contributed to the historiographical distortion of Caucasia.

- LouisAragon (talk) 18:48, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

As this (Carnegie) and other literature also indicate, Georgia has long identified itself as a European country rather than an Asian country. This is not about any theoretical exercise about "European values", which typically is related to the EU treaty values. Are Belarus or Russia not European countries because they do not relate to the EU values? Georgia has ever since the Georgian Democratic Republic considered and explicitly declared itself European, even before the concept of "EUropean values" was invented. I will henceforth look for other material if you think the Carnegie piece is not strong enough. The reason to add this was the construed attempt to make Georgia more Asian country than it is. It interacts with its neighbours, but it certainly doesn't identify itself as Asian, nor is it a member of any pan-Asian organisation, but is it of the relevant pan-European and aspires it membership of the EU. Again, this is about continental focus and national orientation as part of its national identity outside of the (liberal) "values" debate. I am open to any appropriate place elsewhere in the page, but since there is no other proper section on foreign association (at politics) the lede seemd the best place to add, as all the supranational relations are there too.. Labrang (talk) 16:21, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

The lead is not the best place at all to add more facts. I would say national identity fits well into culture, given it is a strong aspect of national culture. I would add it there. Georgia has joined some Asia-focused institutions, but for the most part that's somewhat irrelevant to identity issues. What was the construed attempt to "make Georgia more Asian country than it it", and what does it mean to be an Asian country? That said, I'd just remove that bit from the lead, just say it's in the Caucasus. CMD (talk) 18:57, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I concur with Chipmunkdavis. It does not belong in the lede, but I guess it can be added to the culture section. - LouisAragon (talk) 22:20, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

No problem. Will change it. Not entirely happy with the result yet, but will have wider look later.Labrang (talk) 10:45, 12 August 2022 (UTC)