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Revision as of 23:31, 8 August 2023

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Indian Migration to Australia

Can I make a subsection called "Indian Migration to Australia" under the "Pre-Vedic religions (until c. 1750 BCE)" section, and then can I add the following under the "Indian Migration to Australia" subsection?:

"A genetics research report in 2013 revealed that a substantial gene flow from India to Australia occurred around 4,230 years ago.[1]" It is likely that this migration was related to many changes in the archaeological record of Australia, which included a sudden change in stone tool technologies and plant processing, with microliths appearing for the first time, as well as the first appearance of the dingo in the fossil record.[1] Some scholars have noted similarities between Hinduism in India and the religious beliefs of the Australian Aborigines, and have noted similarities in linguistics and culture between Indians (particularly Indian tribes) and Aborigines.[1]

References

  1. ^ a b c "The Story Untold Part 2 - The links between Australian Aborigines and Indian tribes". SBSHindi. 2019.

Shakespeare143 (talk) 06:52, 10 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No. Utterly fringe. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:11, 14 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The genetics report is highly reputable and so is Bulu Imam. Bulu Imam is a very esteemed environmental activist working for the protection of tribal culture. So I think at least it would be good to include the information from the genetics report and Bulu Islam.Shakespeare143 (talk) 05:40, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I said above that this is off-topic. This has nothing to do with Hinduism. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 10:00, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kumud Merani refers to genetic studies on the origins of Dingo's, stating that they were imported into Australia ca. 4,000 years ago; he isn't referring to human genetics. Nor is the date "2013" mentioned anywhere at that page.
  • "Microliths" are not mentioned at that page; microliths were known long before 4,000 years ago in Autsralia.
  • The page does not mention "Hinduism."
You're making things up, "based" on a very poor source. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 11:29, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your feedback on my proposed edit change. I think that the SBSHindi source and the genetics report are reliable. SBSHindi is part of Special Broadcasting Service (SBS), which is partly funded by the Australian government. The page mentions "Hindu". It also says "we go beyond the science and speak to the people who believe that Indian settlers who arrived on Australia some 4000 years ago, left behind more than just a trace of their DNA – in the art, languages and spiritual symbolism of indigenous Australia". Also, the genetics report from 2013 says people migrated, mentions microliths, and is published on the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the U.S. It can be found here: https://www.pnas.org/content/110/5/1803. I think that the mention of Dingo's was mentioned to indicate that they believe that the Dingo's came to Australia from the migration. I think it would be a good idea if I included the genetics report source in the proposed edit change. Shakespeare143 (talk) 19:28, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link to Pugach et al. (2013); interesting. Obviously, your first two sentences should be referenced by this source. Yet, it's a genetic study, not archaeological or historical, and the link is presented very tentatively (emphasis mine): "The fact that we detect a substantial inflow of genes from India into Australia at about this same time does suggest that all of these changes in Australia may be related to this migration."
4200 years ago is obviously IVC/Dravidian; note that the genetic comparison was done with Dravidina people. Or some relation with Austroasiatic: the Birhor people speak a Munda language. "Hindu" is mentioned by Prem Mishra; anachronistic speculation, no more than that, unless IVC-people reached Australia (they traded with Mesopotamia per ship, after all), and some aspects noted in Australia were preserved in Vedic culture. But anyway, 2200 BCE is long before Hinduism, so irrelevant for this article. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 07:36, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mishra is a scholar, and I think it would be good to include what he says in this article because it is relevant to the migration. The source I included does mention how it is possible that the migration was composed of Hindus. Are there any sources that mention how the migration was not composed of Hindus (or that there is no possibility of the migrants being Hindus)? I think I remember reading that Hinduism is much older than 2200 BCE, with aspects of modern Hinduism coming from the IVC as well as from other indigenous peoples of the subcontinent.Shakespeare143 (talk) 02:00, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]


HARV errors

There are a number of Harv error: this link doesn't point to any citation messages in the Citations section of this article. I had to enable a setting in my preferences to allow these error messages to be visible, but I do not remember how I did it now.--WriterArtistDC (talk) 21:58, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Invention of Hinduism

OR question

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the article say that Hinduism was invented by the British in the 18th century? Achar Sva (talk) 23:02, 23 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Achar Sva, it looks like you have never received a welcome message. Pity. Can you please go through these basic guidelines now? The policies tell you what this article (or any other article) should say or shouldnt' say. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hindu Religion

This is for Assignment 58.145.184.239 (talk) 14:27, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Starting date

Should it be mentioned that Hinduism might be as early as 2300 BC? https://www.history.com/topics/religion/hinduism Temp0000002 (talk) 18:54, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, of course not; please read what this Wiki-article says about Hindu synthesis. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 02:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification regarding the following lines in Prehistory section

Hinduism may have roots in Mesolithic prehistoric religion, such as evidenced in the rock paintings of Bhimbetka rock shelters,[note 1] which are about 10,000 years old (c. 8,000 BCE),[1][2][3][4][5] as well as neolithic times.

References
  1. ^ a b Mathpal, Yashodhar (1984). Prehistoric Painting of Bhimbetka. Abhinav Publications. p. 220. ISBN 9788170171935.
  2. ^ a b Tiwari, Shiv Kumar (2000). Riddles of Indian Rockshelter Paintings. Sarup & Sons. p. 189. ISBN 9788176250863.
  3. ^ a b Rock Shelters of Bhimbetka (PDF). UNESCO. 2003. p. 16.
  4. ^ a b Mithen, Steven (2011). After the Ice: A Global Human History, 20,000 – 5000 BC. Orion. p. 524. ISBN 978-1-78022-259-2.
  5. ^ a b Javid, Ali; Jāvīd, ʻAlī; Javeed, Tabassum (2008). World Heritage Monuments and Related Edifices in India. Algora Publishing. p. 19. ISBN 978-0-87586-484-6.
Notes
  1. ^ Doniger 2010, p. 66: "Much of what we now call Hinduism may have had roots in cultures that thrived in South Asia long before the creation of textual evidence that we can decipher with any confidence. Remarkable cave paintings have been preserved from Mesolithic sites dating from c. 30,000 BCE in Bhimbetka, near present-day Bhopal, in the Vindhya Mountains in the province of Madhya Pradesh."[subnote 1]
Subnotes
  1. ^ 30,000 BCE is incorrect; this must be 8,000 BCE.[1][2][3][4][5]

In which of these sources can I actually find that the roots of Hinduism may date back to 10000 years. Including such a statement doesn't seem correct given that it can be misinterpreted in many ways, and is more of a conjecture than a theory or fact. Sk.griffinix (talk) 00:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, but sourced and explained by Doniger. See also first alinea of the first section. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 05:53, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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