Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ali'i: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 00:05, 13 June 2008

Ali'i

Voice your opinion (talk page) (28/17/11); Scheduled to end 17:02, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Ali'i (talk · contribs) - Aloha! I am Ali'i and I would like to go through a Request for adminship, and am self-nominating because I am power-hungry. Well, only sort of. I don't really think I need administrator tools, and in fact would vow not to use them in all but the most grievous of circumstances. I never once thought I wanted to be an administrator, and think the stratification between users is generally abhorrent. I am a true believer in the fact that adminship is not that important. If this passes, great. If not, great. I'm not really bothered one way or another.

However, other people may see this differently. Lately on Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship and Jimbo's talk page there has been discussion about it being a bigger deal than before. I am hoping to show that it is still not that big of a deal. I am not trying to be disruptive, as I am going through a regular process.

For stat counters: I have roughly 3,600 edits (not sure how many deleted contributions I have made... probably not THAT many). I'm sure an administrator can get those numbers for you.
For XfDers: I do not really participate in deletion discussions too often. An occasional Miscellany for deletion, but to be honest I can't remember the last article for deletion I commented on. (Apparently it was April 4th, but before that... it was the 22nd of October)
For featured articlers: I can't say that I've written a complete featured article, nor contributed a piece of featured media.
For edit summaryers: No, my usage isn't perfect, but neither is it truly relevant, in my opinion. I try.

Now to where I (probably) shoot myself in the foot:

I am not going to answer any questions that do not directly pertain to contributions I have made. I don't really play in hypotheticals, nor do I feel opposition made because of a failure to answer optional questions holds much water.

Yes, I have had a few problems and run-ins in the past, but I'll try and be open and up-front about them so you don't have to go digging:

I have had some run ins with Orangemarlin over a couple of issues, specifically one episode on the Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed‎ article. I tried to correct some direct quotations, was reverted, and fell into a small revert war. (It was back on April 13th if you want more information.) Since then, however, I have apologized to Orangemarlin for my part in our dispute, and I think we have generally put things behind us.
On September 21, 2007, I told FeloniousMonk that he made a "fucking terrible call" by blocking Ferrylodge. Other less-than-pleasantries were exchanged between Odd nature, and maybe a few others regarding this. I was a (non-party) participant in the Ferrylodge arbitration that followed.
Probably a few more, but these are the two that stand out in my mind currently, and where I honestly expect to get good faith opposes.

As I said, I vow never to use my administrator tools in any area I have a conflict in, and can't ever see myself using the block button (except maybe following discussion on Requests for comments/usernames where I try and contribute), the full protect button, or the deletion button. I don't participate much in deletion discussions, and I don't think getting the tools will change any of that. And if I screw up, I'll be happy to relinquish my tools, because they don't really mean that much to me (which is why I won't be fighting much in the oppose section).

So to end on a more positive note, I do help the encyclopedia. That's the point. I have tried to do image work that no one else seems to really want to do. I am proud of many of my contributions. Any time you see a "-1" in my edit summaries, that is where I removed material that could not be sourced, or, and more likely, added a source to a Biography of a Living Person (Shameless Plug/Desperate Plea) that was tagged with {{fact}} or some other template requiring references. I tried to build Wildlife of Brazil, almost completely built List of United States Representatives from Hawaii, helped some other US politics and Hawaiʻi-related articles, and have tried to work in other areas to combat a systematic bias. I have tried to revert vandalism when I see it, and help discussion between editors butting heads. I have tried to "get around". Really anything you need to see is located in my contribs (or maybe the wikidashboard). Well, I guess I'm ready for the beat down which is associated with a request for adminship. Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much). Have at it. --Ali'i 17:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?

A: None, to be honest.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: See nomination.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: See nomination.

Additional optional question from PouponOnToast:

4. You are currently engaging in a series of extended dispute resolutions regarding a group of editors who have edited articles on Intelligent Design. You have been openly critical of omnibus RFC's in that process. Why? What alternative do you think would work? Why? What have you done to resolve the dispute?

A. I'll actually answer this one since it's based on something I've actually (sort of) said. I am not necessarily critical of all omnibus requests for comments, just that one in particular. I don't have have better answer to what should be done, but I know as it currently stands, it's not going to do much help. For other editor's information, the request for comment in question is Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Intelligent Design‎. --Ali'i 17:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Optional question from Keepscases:

5. Have any of your contributions been made while under the influence of alcohol or drugs?

A. While I enjoy a libation every now and then, I can't say that I've ever edited while drinking. (Sorry?) --Ali'i 17:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming you are of Legal drinking age, you should try it some time. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 20:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Optional question from Dusti please do not remove this question

6. What is the difference between a block and a ban? What is a cooldown block and when should it be used? These questions are to show your knowledge of admin related tasks.

A. Wikipedia:Blocking policy. --Ali'i 17:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Optional question from xenocidic

7. You say you won't use the tools except in all but the most grievous of circumstances. Could you describe one of these circumstances, or perhaps explain why a simple report to WP:AN/I wouldn't work just as well?

A. Good question... a hypothetical... but still one I should probably answer. And hopefully put to rest some concerns of others here as well... hopefully you don't mind my using your question as a launching point. This is a serious request for adminship, and not some exercise in soapboxing/point-making. Some situations I can see me using the tools: Perhaps blocking a name following discussion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names. Maybe if there was a user putting phalluses all over the place, I'd block them too. If personal info was being inserted into a page I was editing, I would delete the versions with the info so it could be oversighted. But I don't ever see myself getting to the point where I disregard the incidents noticeboard. For those such as Dusti saying they don't know how I view/understand things, I can only assume they haven't actually looked at my noticeboard contibutions, nor my username request for comment edits, etc. I do understand policy, but I don't feel it necessary to copy-paste from various policy pages to somehow "prove" that I do. Would this request be going smoother if I did that? Perhaps. But that's not me. Mahalo. --Ali'i 18:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question from Dloh cierekim -- answer if you please. I suspect I will like the answer.

8. What is your opinion of this essay ? Is it something you can agree with?

A.

Optional question from SheffieldSteel

9. Just so we're all clear on this: Do you want to be an administrator, and if so, why?

A.

General comments

See Ali'i's edit summary usage with mathbot's tool. For the edit count, see the talk page.

Links for Ali'i: Ali'i (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)

Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Ali'i before commenting.

Discussion

For some reason, your deleted contributions are being counted. I think its probably the apostrophe :) Rudget (Help?) 17:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm starting to wonder about this user, no admin work and one of my questions pertaining to adminship work was removed. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 17:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Because the candidate indicated above that those sort of questions wouldn't be answered. That Ali'i doesn't want to help out at particular noticeboards or do other regularized admin work isn't necessarily a problem. It doesn't mean that he won't ever do admin work - just none planned at the moment. The question in this process is generally whether we trust someone enough to give them the tools, and how often they will actually use them is sort of irrelevant to that question. Avruch^T * ^ER 17:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: I wasn't the one who removed the questions. Although at this point I can't see myself answering them. I see they've been re-added though, so hopefully that assuages anything on that point. --Ali'i 17:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly, but knowledge in admin related areas is desired. How can you completley trust someone with the tools if they don't know how to use them or how to appropriatley use them? By answering the question, it shows knowledge/understanding in the area. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 17:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, when you think about it, there's really only restrictions in the real world against buying guns. Pretty much everyone is allowed to buy tools, so long as they don't ask the clerk to show them "where I might find hammers, so that I can bludgeon that man outside your store". :-) Hiberniantears (talk) 17:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty clear this is more a policy discussion rather than an RFA. Support and you're saying RFA is no big deal, oppose and you're saying it is...--Phoenix-wiki 18:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm opposing, somewhat under the premise that being an admin is no big deal. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 18:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - Disagree, I feel this more of a discussion over can we trust Ali'i with the tools and does he/she know how/why/when to use them. How much knowledge do you have of the policy and can you make decisions that follow policy? Granted I agree with NBD, but you have to be cautious when handing out the tools, and I'm not so sure that Ali'i is ready for the tools quite yet, due to lack of participation in admin related areas, and the answer to my question abve. As far as your last statement, then everyone should support every RFA. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    - Nope, many peope think adminship is a big deal, and there's nothing wrong with that. You're the only opposer so far I feel has really taken into account the candidate, leaving out all the RFA stuff.--Phoenix-wiki 18:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      - I just think that RFA should be about the canidate and his/her strenghts and weaknesses, not about everything else. I don't make a criteria sheet for RFA, I think "Ok, if he/she were the only admin avaliable, would I be able to trust him/her to do the right thing correctly?" Dusti^{complain/compliment} 18:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support

Consistently performs well, shows great judgement particularly in the areas I've seen him. Rudget (Help?) 17:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would, however, ask the candidate to down the humour in the nomination statement, otherwise he runs the risk of being opposed. Rudget (Help?) 17:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If I'm opposed, I'm opposed. I'm not going to cry over it. And who says I am even trying to be funny? :-) --Ali'i 17:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

well this edit summary had me doubting the seriousness of this effort. Dloh cierekim 19:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete User obviously has an excess of humor. (Where'd I leave that trout). Dloh cierekim 17:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming this is legit, and the avant garde approach to RFA has my eyes spinning counter clockwise, Weak support based on found no reason not to and candidate has sufficient time and experience to use the tools. Assuming he will. I can't oppose based on the "no use for the tools" argument-- don't believe in it. If this is a bad joke for the sake of a WP:POINT, well, I'm still looking for that trout. Cheers, Dloh cierekim 19:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. No big deal, and I like your honesty in the nomination. --Kbdank71 17:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support This should clear up Malleus Fatuorum's question Hiberniantears (talk) 17:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support (switched from Neutral), but I strongly urge the candidate that, however not-a-big-deal he believes the tools to be, his use of them can indeed end up being a very, very big deal. Tread lightly. Having the tools isn't as important as having the trust of the community, and I think Ali'i has that trust, so I can't not support his request. UltraExactZZ ^Claims~ Evidence 17:35, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yup. Seen you around, always pleasant and civil and informed. Good at mediating issues between editors. Won't abuse the tools, and you say directly that you'll give them up if you do. That shows that you trust the community, which means I for one trust you right back. You answer to Optional question number 6 was the perfect answer by the way. Shows you know where to get help when you need an answer. Cheers, Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 17:54, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Seen him around for a while. Does good work editwise. Seems helpful, polite and friendly. Has a deft touch, more or less. Gets the wiki way. Unlikely to blow up the wiki. Adminship is no big deal. No compelling reason to oppose. ==> Support ++Lar: t/c 18:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Trust him. Admire his honesty, ~~although not so much the pointyness~~... But in real life, sorry, in real editing, his actions seem near flawless. When he would use the tools, I'm sure it would be only good calls. Merzul (talk) 18:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Changing this to a wholehearted support based on the excellent answer to Q7. Thanks, Merzul (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Why not? He seems trustworthy and generally a sane person who wouldn't make awful calls. Agree with Keeper76 and Lar. --Tombomp (talk) 18:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per OrangeMarlin. Ability to bridge gap is key. ~~Will support or oppse. Reviewing users contributions to recent dispute resolution now.~~ PouponOnToast (talk) 19:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support I believe she really cares about the project and won't abuse the position. BradV 19:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support - no trason not to. Sceptre ^(talk) 19:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support per the answer to Q7. It is weak because, while the candidate has vehemently denied this, I can't help but get the feeling that they are requesting the tools as some kind of validation of their efforts. xenocidic (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Doh! What was I doing opposing? Luckily I managed to find my thinking head. Every editor should have the tools, whether he or she intends to use them or not. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 19:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Educate me, Malleus. Admins have accidentally locked up the servers for 30 minutes in the past; is there no longer any possibility of damage to Wikipedia by a "rouge" admin, or by someone who gets access to an admin's computer? Have Wikipedia's admin-tool-vulnerabilities been fixed? I'm happy to say that I trust this editor, but won't we create problems for ourselves if we set a precedent of saying that people can come to RfA, say that the amount of admin work they plan on doing is "none", and expect a mop? If there is no expectation that someone will act like an admin, then what do we do about the next hundred people who apply to WP:RfA without any real intention of doing the work that goes along with getting the tools? - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 20:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Please don't hear the wrong thing from "educate me", guys, I have great respect for Malleus. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 20:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

butting in What exactly constitutes "acting like an admin"? Aside from simply being responsible, I don't see what else to go with. As an admin myself, I honestly have no idea what actions I can take to lock up the servers... accidentally or otherwise (although I am now curious to get to the botton of that gap in knowledge), and I don't think that makes me a threat to the project. It seems like the worst thing this editor has done is censor an attack on another editor, which is less an irresponsible act, than a polite one. Hiberniantears (talk) 20:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is almost certainly the wrong place for this discussion, and I wouldn't dream of trying to educate you in any case. Locking up servers is something that anyone with a bit of technical nouse could do, no need for admin tools to do that. My basic position is that every editor should have access to the tools (perhaps with a few exceptions like the block button), to be taken away as soon as they're abused. But as I say, this is probably not the place for that discussion. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Dan, are you concerned with Ali'i being a rouge admin or a rogue admin? I was not aware of Ali'i being approved by The Supreme Cabal Regime of Wikipedia. Dloh cierekim 20:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I like this candidate. I'm concerned about setting a precedent that it's okay to start off your RfA by saying that you won't do and won't take questions concerning admin work. I'm concerned what new applicants that would bring in, and I'm wondering how we would justify voting against the next person that says the same thing...or are we going to say that that's okay for some, because we like them, but not for others? - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 22:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would certainly be wrong if that was anyone's sole criterion for support. But let's be honest, hasn't RfA already become a beauty contest? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia is a volunteer project, and people are free to not do work if they don't wish to, even if they're admins. If we trust people with the tools (as you said yourself), they should be given them, in case they do see a need for admin tools at some point. By your logic we shouldn't give anyone adminship because there are vulnerabilities and people can gain access to their account! Yes, we should set that precedent, as there is not (and should not be) a requirement for anyone to do work on Wikipedia, including admins. --Rory096 21:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support - I have very serious reservations about giving tools to someone who says they have no intentions of using them. Having said that, I can't help but imagine that, sooner or later, they will get used anyway. Intentions, however good they might be, are often altered by the realities of situations. In the event this editor ever is in a situation where the tools are needed, I think the encyclopedia would be better off with him having them. John Carter (talk) 19:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Pretty much what Keeper76 said. Restepc (talk) 20:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Think of it this way. The user's honest, something that we really need in admins these days.. Wizardman 20:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support incredible nomination. He knows how big a deal adminship should be. But this support isn't frivolous, I'm really impressed with Ali'i's work and have seen him be a calming and refreshing voice in discussions. He would be a terrific administrator. EJF (talk) 20:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
After reading this RfA, I've decided my decision to support is an easy one. Tell me, has anyone provided any evidence to show that Ali'i will abuse the tools? Not at all. For starters, I'm baffled over opposition regarding the first three questions: why answer them if the candidate already pretty much answered them in their own nomination statement? Why say the same thing again? As for need...that doesn't matter either: Ali'i will do what many admins do and just use the tools when it's necessary to use them; it's been said many times before, but no one "needs" the tools: they're just technical features to help improve the encyclopedia. I'm very sure that if Ali'i had given the "standard answer" to question 1 (i.e. something like "I want to delete pages that meet the speedy deletion criteria, do work at WP:RFPP and protect pages if necessary, help manage WP:AIV, and close WP:AFDs", she would have more support just for saying that, and that's saddening. I'm also trying to work out why there's opposition and neutrals saying "adminship is not a reward or a trophy" and that this is a "point nom": where did Ali'i say she was looking for a reward for her work, and how is this nomination "pointy"? This RfA is different from most RfAs I've seen, but I wouldn't say it's pointy, and it was easily submitted in good-faith. Now I go onto my next point: we often complain about how RfA candidates "all seem to be similar/the same" yet when someone who is different to the "mainstream candidate" applies, they get opposed, yet Ali'i isn't less experienced than those candidates at all. In addition, Ali'i has a strong sense of humor, which is a very necessary quality, and is honest, also very necessary. With my own interactions with Ali'i, I've found her to be knowledgeable and polite, and I'm sure that if she was made an administrator, she would do just fine. Again, nothing has been provided to show that she would be abusive, and given that fact, plus the reasons I mentioned above, this is an easy (albeit long) support. Acalamari 20:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Ali'i is a she? I may have to rethink my support in that case. I've always thought that pre-pubescent/teenage males make by far the best administrators. :lol: --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See, this is why I used gender neutral language. =) xenocidic (talk) 20:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I just assumed Ali'i is a she. Maybe I'm wrong? Acalamari 21:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Frankly, my gender has no bearing on my editing. You can call me a he OR a she; gender-specific (even wrong gendered) language does not bother me. As long as people know to whom the pronoun is referring. Mahalo. --Ali'i 21:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support - editor makes good contributions, no reason to suggest that they will abuse the tools. As far as I can tell, the only people who shouldn't get made into administrators are those who the community cannot trust to use the tools. Such a lack of trust may arise from limited editing experience, or from incidents in the user's past. I was recently made an administrator - in my RfA, I said where I would like to use the tools, but there isn't anything binding on me to actually use them at all. If we can trust a user, then it doesn't matter if they actually have a plan to use the buttons or not. That's my support statement, anyway Fritzpoll (talk) 21:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. There does not appear to be any reason to believe that the candidate would either abuse or misuse the admin tools. The opposes are based, in my opinion, on deeply flawed logic saying that we should care about whether or not they'd actually use the tools (as if this weren't a volunteer project) and that we should oppose because the candidate has given some insight into their personal beliefs on the nature of Wikipedia. These are hardly valid reasons; we should be concerned only with whether or not +sysoping the candidate might bring harm the encyclopedia, and by all indications it will not. --Rory096 21:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, hard working, easy-going user that would not be a pain in the arse if she were to get the tools. Also, per the self nom, I see the user is bold. weburiedoursecretsinthegarden 21:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Seddσn ^talk ^{Editor Review}
Al Tally ^talk 22:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Did you change your mind since [1]? - Bobet 22:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No...? This user doesn't appear to be inactive, they made edits just today. Al Tally ^talk 23:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for adding pizazz to the RFA process! I'm an Editor of the wiki^{[citation needed]} 22:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support don't particularly like the tone but in essence I agree with the sentiment and I doubt the user would abuse or misuse the tools. Guest9999 (talk) 22:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support, per above, user needs to use edit summaries a little more Antonio Lopez ^(talk) 22:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I've been thinking about this one for a bit, but I'm going to have to support. You've done well as an editor and are polite, civil, and knowledgable enough for the tools. I don't quite care for the "I won't use the tools" attitude you have (I think you will of course), but that is no reason to oppose. Good luck, Malinaccier (talk) 22:38, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, what have we here? An editor asking for editing tools, seems to be saying s/he doesn't plan to use the controversial bits. How odd. No admin coaching? No admin mill participation? Nothing that could be labelled mandarinship? What is Ali'i thinking? Oh, yeah, that adminship is something we give to people who won't abuse the tools. Having clashed with Ali'i a couple times, I feel comfortable with the idea of giving him/her the keys to the closet where we keep the mops. Guettarda (talk) 22:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support Ya dunno ya need them (tools) until ya need them. I trust him... and if ya dont make it, dude, moral support wooty. Qb | ^{your 2 cents} 23:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose

Oppose I suggest you wait a little and get a few more conrtibutions under your belt. StewieGriffin! • Talk Sign 17:21, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Plus, you can find your total contribution number (including deleted ones) in my prefs.[reply]
Actually definite oppose! No admin work?!? What the? StewieGriffin! • Talk Sign 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Stewie, based on your first oppose note, I garnered you may not have checked this candidate. Your second note kind of confirms that. He has 3,600 edits ranging back to 2006, actively editing since the beginning of 07. If you wouldn't mind, could you clarify "wait a little and get a few more conrtibutions under your belt"? Thanks. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. I remain open to changing my mind if the point behind applying for tools that there is no intention to use is clearly and persuasively explained though. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 17:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - I’ve read the nom statement, not once but twice, then reviewed the contrib history, and have to oppose this one. Even with assuming good faith, right away I have to question such an essay put within a nom statement. It simply, in my opinion, does not belong in an RfA, although an RfA is most certainly the place where you can the most people to read it. Right away, bells go off when we have a candidate 1.) Needing to tell us that they don’t care whether or not they pass, 2.) Already making statements about the lack of weight in certain types of opposes, and 3.) Various vows about where they will and won’t use the tools. If I support, it is for a candidate’s judgment, meaning I don’t need them to make vows to me. As for the optional questions… just a few days ago I was defending Tan’s right to not answer certain kinds… but to make a flat out statement that you don’t want to answer them and the answers shouldn’t have weight? I disagree with that. The main reason I am opposing is not because of major worries in contrib history. I reviewed, it seems alright, candidate is certainly willing to get hands dirty and wants to help improve the encyclopedia. However, in the spirit of No Big Deal, this oppose is obvious to me. Candidate doesn’t need to use the tools, but to nominate themselves and then proceed to make a POINTy statement which basically says they don’t need to be an admin? To me, this is the opposite of no big deal. This is bringing an essay to perhaps the biggest stage on wikipedia to have people read it and discuss it and the candidate. My final point: this very nomination makes me worry that candidate may wield their status as an admin to help make certain points about Wikipedia, not to use any of the technical tools, which is really the point of +sysop. I encourage fervent discourse to improve the project, which it appears the candidate is involved in, but I'm not going to help give someone the admin label just because of that. Abuse of tools? No. But possibly an abuse of the perceived status bump, and I can’t support that. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 17:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why have you put POINT in big capital letters? It's impossible to diiscuss anything without making points...you mean "Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point", yet there is no disruption.--Phoenix -wiki 18:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I felt the nom statement was making a point about RfAs in general, not this candidate. I guess disruptive might be a strong word here, but otherwise I think my oppose made my stance clear. Gwynand | Talk•Contribs 18:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it is making a point about RFAs general.--Phoenix -wiki 18:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This isn't based on the refusal to answer optional questions, but for not showing at least a small understanding of admin related tasks and issues. Seems like a great editor, but before I'm willing to trust someone with the tools, I have to know that you can use it correctly and know how/why to use them. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 18:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't going to use them. Naerii - Talk 18:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Ironically, if Ali'i gave me a reason why he would use the admin tools, for example to answer requests at WP:RFPP (which is generally a low-stress page that doesn't get backlogged), I would have no problem with it. He's been a user in good standing for more than a year, and his move log shows sufficient familiarity with MoS and site policies. However, if Ali'i simply wants to make a point about how receiving admin tools should be no big deal, I'm not interested in supporting such a statement. Adminship is a user access level. If you need the access level, ask. If you don't need it, don't ask. If you're not sure whether you need it, think about it for a while, and then ask. I hope that makes things clear from my end. Again, I'm not really opposed to granting Ali'i the tools, but I need a reason to do that, and I have none. Yechiel (Shalom) 18:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I basically trust this editor, I like their focus on product, and I have no problem with the fact that they don't want to do any admin work. But admins can cause a lot of trouble if they want to, and if we hand out mops just as a way of saying "good job", then sooner or later, someone's going to screw things up. This is an example of how the lack of other RfA-like processes screws up the RfA process: if this editor had a better way to get community-wide acknowledgement of accomplishments, and gain some form of stature, they would probably be doing that, since they don't really want to be an admin. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 18:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Adminship is not a reward or a trophy. If there was a way to get the tools, and have no one even know I'm an admin, please point me to that way, because as it stands, I don't want to draw attention to myself. I am not interested in some false "status". If I wanted compliments or acknowledgement, I would have done an editor review. Mahalo. --Ali'i 18:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I don't follow. In answer to the question, "What admin work do you intend to take part in?", you said, "None, to be honest." If you didn't intend this as a vote on your trustworthiness, then why are we here? I am not against community-wide votes along the lines of, "Yeah, they seem like one of us", and it would be nice if that happened at WP:ER or anywhere other than WP:RfA, but at the moment, there's no other place where this kind of process happens, which I think causes problems. - Dan Dank55 (talk)(mistakes) 19:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on the non answers to the questions, also, because user states they don't intend to use them. — Ѕandahl 18:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose [2] Matthew (talk) 19:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Opposing for removing clearly unconstructive talk? I can think of a few reasons to oppose, but that isn't one of them. xenocidic (talk) 19:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
There was a concern raised on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents, I saw that it added nothing to the encyclopedia, was inflaming the situation, and removed it. --Ali'i 19:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So? Censoring a user's comment does not "unspeak" it. Matthew (talk) 19:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose the attitude and spirit are well and fine, but proper answers are meant to give an idea whether/how a candidate wants to be useful and how conscious he/she is about understanding what the tools are, what/when they can be used for and what/when they shouldn't be used for. Vishnava_talk 19:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A good sense of humour is one thing, but the level of flippancy being displayed here does not give rise to much confidence. --Ecoleetage (talk) 19:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, because the nom makes no sense to me. If you are not going to use the tools, there's absolutely no point in nominating yourself for adminship. And yet the comment to Dank55 above makes it seem that you're interested in the tools? The contrived nomination statement only shows you're looking to draw attention to yourself and your 'controversial' ideas about adminship, and this isn't the correct forum to do that (try the talk page). - Bobet 20:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Gwynand. WP:POINTy nomination, and doesn't seem to show good judgement. Adminship is not a big deal, but it's not not a big deal either.--Koji †Dude ^(C) 20:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Would you mind running that one by me again? Adminship is not a big deal, but it's not a big deal does not compute. If it's "not not" a big deal then it's a big deal; still doesn't compute.--Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's not not a big deal. It's a medium deal? xenocidic (talk) 20:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, it's in the middle. It's not a huge deal, but it's also not a small deal. I think Jimbo said sort of the same thing on his talk page but he used big words that I can't remember.--Koji †Dude ^(C) 20:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, we edit-conflicted (this is becoming a busy page). Just to satisfy my pedantry, "not not big = big", no matter what St Jimbo has to say. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 20:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Malleus Fatuarum, I'd (pedantically) have to disagree...If one accepts, say, that "not big" is equivalent to "small", then "not not big" is equal to "not small"; only a binary something-must-be-big-or-small situation necessitates a reading of "not small = big". Both simplifications, yours above and mine here, suffer from a false dichotomy. It's perfectly obvious to me that "it's not not a big deal" was used to highlight the existence of a "bigness spectrum" (if you will) regarding RfA. I'm inclined to agree with KojiDude, if I've interpreted this correctly. — Scientizzle 23:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose No evidence that the candidate needs or will use the tools. WT:RFA would be a better place to contest your perceptions about the process than here. --John (talk) 20:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The "no big deal" thing, said several years ago in a different WikiEra by a guy who isn't exactly up to speed on the current climate here, needs to die. It's a big deal - every single RfA for the past year is testiment to that. If you don't want the tools, and you're not going to use the tools, what's the point of this RfA? To cause a scene? To prove that a priviledge you don't want and will not use is not a big deal? Gwynand is right, and Ecoleetage hit another point - flippancy isn't exactly what I'm looking for in an admin candidate. Tan | 39 21:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
One man's flippancy may perhaps be another's sense of humour. Personally, I'd prefer if it was mandatory for admins to have a sense of humour, wouldn't you? It would save an awful lot of unnecessary trouble IMO. --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that a sense of humor is sorely lacking in many editors, not just admins or admin candidates. To my eye, however, this isn't appropriate. I like it when my boss or coworkers can lighten up and say "fuck" over by the water cooler, but I don't say it in the job interview. Tan | 39 21:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with not having a sense of humour? I don't have a sense of humour, many admins don't :-p--Phoenix -wiki 21:53, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is a job interview? What's the pay? I thought it was simply an opportunity for the community to express an opinion on whether this candidate could be trusted with the additional admin buttons or not. Is being caught in possession of a sense of humour a felony in your world? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 21:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, spectacular. Let's assume something is true and good just because it's current practice. Never mind what things should be like and that RfA is seriously flawed; RfA shows adminship is a big deal, therefore it must be true! --Rory096 22:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Nice sarcasm. Now let me have my opinion, please. Tan | 39 22:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
This is a discussion, where people are free to respond to and (attempt to) refute others' comments. --Rory096 23:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The reason for nom makes no sense to me. --Kaaveh (talk) 21:41, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I do love a good sense of humor. I like to think that I have one, perhaps not as visible on Wikipedia as in real life, but answering Q1 by saying you won't do any admin work at all, and answering the blocking vs. banning optional question by simply linking a policy page...well, I think requesting adminship should be a bit more serious than that. Useight (talk) 22:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's not exactly what the candidate said- not intending to do any specific task is different from not doing any work. I frequently come across various things that require an admin to deal with, but that doesn't necessarily mean I deliberately seek them out. And, to be frank, that block/ban question is a bit of a joke. It's not like this is a live quiz where it might be of some benefit, to see if they actually know something like that. Candidates can easily just look it up at the policy pages if they don't know, or just look at any of the dozens of other RfAs where the correct answer is given already. Questions asking for simple facts don't really increase the information available to make a decision about a candidate. --Rory096 22:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If I may quote the question above: "1. What admin work do you intend to take part in?" I'll also quote his answer: "None, to be honest." I take this to mean that the candidate does not intend to do any admin work. Also the copying and pasting of a policy instead of taking a few moments and writing something out means to me that if some user happens to ask him a question, he may just paste a link as his response. This is not effective communication, which I believe is an important trait in an admin. Useight (talk) 23:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see that as really what the candidate meant; I took it as "I have no intention of using the tools anywhere, but I'll do so if I see a need." The answer to question 7 seems to confirm this. As for the block/ban question, the candidate said that they would not be answering abstract questions of that sort, whereas they certainly have not said any such thing regarding normal communication, so I see no reason to believe that the same thing would happen. Yes, the candidate could have written it out, but that would honestly just be a waste of time, for the reasons above. --Rory096 23:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Correct adminship is not a big deal but it does require a good deal of deliberated consideration because the work performed should leave that part of the community effected by an administrator's action in less doubt than it was in before the action was taken. Humour is fine - but I am left in much doubt by your own nomination.--VS ^talk 22:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Lack of admin-related experience. Epbr123 (talk) 23:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per the answer to question 1, 2 and 3. The nomination was ill-conceived. Wikipedia is not a hierarchy. Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 23:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't that the point he's trying to make? Guest9999 (talk) 23:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
So they say, but the reference to power hunger (even if it's a semi-facetious line) concerns me. Secondly, the user seems to be treating RfA as an empirical experiment. So, no thank you. Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 23:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
As I said in my support, why did Ali'i need to answer the first three questions if she already answered them in her own nomination statement? Why have repeat answers? As for "treating this RfA as an empirical experiment", why do you think that? I have no reason to believe that this is a joke and/or bad-faith nomination, or an experiment, for that matter. This RfA is just as legitimate as any other. Acalamari 23:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The scary thing is that I agree with you. The user actually believes this is legitimate, yet comes across as wanting to make a point, prove that RfA is not a big deal while insisting on not using the tools. I am unswayed, unimpressed and flatout do not want to see this user become an administrator. Wisdom89 _{(_T / ^C)} 00:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the point, she's failing miserably. Adminship=the tools, and if someone's not going to use them, there's no point in starting an rfa. They're just making the adminship seem like more of a big deal by ascribing it any significance beyond that. - Bobet 23:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Unconvinced that user can be trusted with the tools. Shot info (talk) 23:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. An unnecessarily POINTy self nomination. I'm uncomfortable giving adminship in these circumstances. The tone of the nomination speaks to the candidate's judgement and temperament. Singopo (talk) 23:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral

~~ZOMG Shenanigans! (Strong Neutral)~~, switched to support. Thus, the moral dilemma. On the one hand, Ali'i is an outstanding editor and a voice of reason in most situations where he is a participant. I think the candidate's decision making would not be a risk to the tools, and the candidate is highly unlikely to abuse them. An excellent candidate, earnest in his desire to see the project improved, and whom I would be happy to support.... except that he is clearly (and, to his credit, openly) seeking adminship to prove a point. While not disruptive, in itself, I can't approve of such shenanigans. I reserve the right to switch over to Support, should I be satisfied that the candidate is serious in seeking adminship - and, you know what? I might switch over anyway. But the candidate's statement and answers to the questions above, though open and honest, tweaked me a little. I want to give this some thought. UltraExactZZ ^Claims~ Evidence 17:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Leaning towards oppose, but will wait answers for above, just not sure about this one. Dusti^{complain/compliment} 17:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC) switched to oppose [reply]

Neutral Although I agree that adminship is, in effect, no big deal, I would like to see this user have some experience with it. No experience indicates a likely lack of policy knowledge. For example, when I first started getting involved in CSD, I made a few mistakes which I learnt from with more experience. I'm neutral because I know this user doesn't mean to exercise the tools; but, if they are there, I would like to see at least a passing understanding of the policies (shown through experience). PeterSymonds (talk) 17:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral This is a strange RfA, and I am just going to sit back and watch for a while. Keepscases (talk) 18:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Same as Keepscases. Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 18:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Do you guys want popcorn? Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 18:19, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
*^{[further explanation needed]}* Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 19:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thinking The candidate is very nice in discussions, but I'm not sure I trust them with the tools. Something does not feel right about this RfA. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 18:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Leaning to oppose based on the answer to question #5--Cube lurker (talk) 18:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I usually come here with one of three solid opinions: Support Strongly, Oppose Strongly, or I don't give a crap (so I don't vote). In this case, I give a crap, but I don't know where I stand. If the candidate had come here 6 months ago, I would have jumped all over it in oppose. Recently, however, I've seen some real strong maturity and a willingness to foster compromise. I do not like his recent involvement with various RfC's and the such, but right now, those things are like a gigantic The Blob engulfing lots of people in drama. I'm going to watch the rationalizations of the supports and opposes, and eventually change my vote. I'm specifically interested in SheffieldSteel's "feelings". I wonder what's going on there. My only other concern is wishing the candidate had spent more time building articles, but that may just be picky.OrangeMarlin ^{Talk• Contributions} 18:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(At the time of writing, I haven't received an answer to my question) It seems as if the candidate has launched an RfA because they want to find out whether adminship is a big deal. I don't see how that question is going to be answered by this process, which ought to be answering the question of whether we trust the candidate with the tools. But the question I find myself wanting to answer is whether I can trust a candidate who will create an RfA as a research tool, (apparently) joke about being power hungry, and so on. SHEFFIELDSTEEL^TALK 23:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I see no reason to believe that this RfA was to prove a point. It seems to me that the RfA is to get adminship to be used whenever the candidate sees fit (but the candidate won't actively seek out opportunities to use the tools), and the candidate is saying that they don't care all that much about adminship because it's not a big deal and they probably wouldn't be using the tools for their main contributions to the encyclopedia anyway. The power hungry thing is clearly a joke, referring to Kurt Weber's frequent assertion that any self-noms are evidence of power hunger. To say that the candidate may have actually meant it is a huge stretch. --Rory096 23:55, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"Whenever the candidate sees fit"? I refer you to the answer to the very first question. She doesn't say, "Rarely". She doesn't say, "When I see fit". She says, "Never". Tan | 39 23:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The candidate does not say "never," in fact. The candidate says "none, to be honest," in reply to a question about intentions to use admin tools, which as established above in the oppose section, is not the same as using admin tools. --Rory096 00:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
While I apologize for misquoting, I rest my case. Tan | 39 00:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Meh What's the (lowercase) point in giving the sysop bit to someone who probably won't abuse them but probably won't use them constructively? If this is only to (in)validate the premise that adminship is "no big deal", it's missing the mark, I think. — Scientizzle 18:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - I give you boatloads of credit for being honest. I bet the number of people who think, but don't say, what you typed in your nomination is higher than any of us would like to believe. While I do believe that honesty is a good thing and should be rewarded, (1) adminship is not a trophy and (2) there's no way in heck a pointy RFA is going to succeed. --B (talk) 19:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral Doesn't seem like they'd hurt the place, but I'm still concerned. MBisanz ^talk 20:29, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral - yeah, adminship is no big deal, but RfA is something we should still take seriously. Shereth 21:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It's no big deal, but we should take it seriously nevertheless, makes no sense to me. Perhaps you'd care to elaborate? --Malleus Fatuorum (talk) 22:06, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. Adminship - ie. the state of being an administrator is not and should not be considered a big deal. As far as I am concerned, so long as someone behaves in a civil manner and has shown they aren't likely to go bananas with the mop then it is no big deal to give it to them. The RfA process - the process by which we determine whether someone is indeed trustworthy - is a big deal. It's the only way to ensure that administrators are selected based on reasonable standards rather than given out like cracker-jack prizes or some kind of reward system. Taking the process seriously is what ensures we don't take administrators too seriously. Trying to prove adminiship is no big deal by making a mockery out of the way we select them is nonsense to me. Shereth 22:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral leaning toward support. I thought you'd give a better answer to #6 than just giving a link to the policy, and it doesn't look like you'll really use the tools much- then again, I think you're trustworthy enough and definitely experienced enough to be an admin, so I'll wait until I see something that will change my !vote to support. --Mizu onna sango15/水女珊瑚15 22:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. Was leaning to support, after being finally convinced that you foresaw any use of the mop, when I noticed you don't archive your talk. I consider discussion archiving to be a basic social nicety so it can be Googled for those users trying to find old conversations. I seen far too many users blank discussions that cast them in a bad light; I'm not saying you're one of them, but it raises the hairs on the back of my neck. <Picking up the popcorn and making a place for myself on the fence.> - Banyan Tree 23:07, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 189: / Line 189: @@
 #::So they say, but the reference to power hunger (even if it's a semi-facetious line) concerns me. Secondly, the user seems to be treating RfA as an empirical experiment. So, no thank you. [[User:Wisdom89|'''<font color="#660000">Wisdom89</font>''']] <sub>([[User_talk:Wisdom89|<small><sub><font color="#17001E">T</font></sub></small>]] / [[Special:Contributions/Wisdom89|<small><sup><font color="#17001E">C</font></sup></small>]])</sub> 23:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 #:::As I said in my support, why did Ali'i need to answer the first three questions if she already answered them in her own nomination statement? Why have repeat answers? As for "treating this RfA as an empirical experiment", why do you think that? I have no reason to believe that this is a joke and/or bad-faith nomination, or an experiment, for that matter. This RfA is just as legitimate as any other. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 23:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
+#::::The scary thing is that I agree with you. The user actually believes this is legitimate, yet comes across as wanting to make a point, prove that RfA is not a big deal while insisting on not using the tools. I am unswayed, unimpressed and flatout do not want to see this user become an administrator. [[User:Wisdom89|'''<font color="#660000">Wisdom89</font>''']] <sub>([[User_talk:Wisdom89|<small><sub><font color="#17001E">T</font></sub></small>]] / [[Special:Contributions/Wisdom89|<small><sup><font color="#17001E">C</font></sup></small>]])</sub> 00:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 #::If that is the point, she's failing miserably. Adminship=the tools, and if someone's not going to use them, there's no point in starting an rfa. They're just making the adminship seem like more of a big deal by ascribing it any significance beyond that. - [[User:Bobet|Bobet]] 23:40, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 # '''Oppose''' - Unconvinced that user can be trusted with the tools.  [[User:Shot info|Shot info]] ([[User talk:Shot info|talk]]) 23:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)