Talk:United States

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Current population (est.): 338,206,000 as of August 7, 2024

Like terms

Why are Caucasians refered to as "Whites" but people of African descent are not refered to as "Blacks"? If you're going to label people, at least use like terms (Blacks, Whites, Browns, Yellows, etc...) or only use the more accurate description of origin of descent (Anglo, Afro, Asian, etc). Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.224.0.171 (talk) 17:08, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

The entire US census-demographics chart is quite below standards/inept when categorizing with race and ethnicity. ie. Middle Eastern & Asian ---> geographic designation black ---> color Caucasian ---> race Latino ---> race and/or ethnicity and/or hertiage Intranetusa (talk) 17:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You appear to be looking at the wrong chart, since the word "Caucasian" does not appear in this article. --Golbez (talk) 18:03, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Crime and Punishment Bias

Go over the crime and punishment section once again, my fellow wikipedians. tell me if you don't believe that to be a little slanted. the article mentions how high the crime rate is, but only compares it to western-europe natons--leaving out the fact that it is drastically lower than countries like russia, mexico, etc. im not asking to fill the article with some hot-air about how peaceful the south-chicago streets are at 2:00am, but i just don't belive it is written very free of opinion. let me know what yall think. Skiendog (talk) 23:00, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I agree that it is as biased as you may think, although I do see what you mean. There is a graph that clearly shows that Russia is higher, and I think it's only fair that it is compared to other developed nations (says developed, not western, so we just need to make sure that it is truly comparing to all developed nations). One thing that I remember reading is that violent crime in the last decade decreased, so if that is true, maybe it's worth mentioning? Kman543210 (talk) 23:11, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The other problem is that data in Zimbabwe for statistics on violence is weak or totally absent (they have some higher priorities). In countries with less open media and government transparency, the rates can't be verified and are of dubious value for comparison. Saying that the US is, in general, more violent than Western Europe is a valid claim, but I'd agree that it could be misleading and requires more discussion and perspective than can be included in a general article. I'm a rampant emo kid when it comes to this article (obsessed with cutting), so I won't bother stating my preference for what to do with the issue.Somedumbyankee (talk) 00:04, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Superpower

I've seen the new comments being made that Russia is a superpower and United States is no longer a superpower and stating Russia is far more powerful than the USA. ROFL in all the time I've been on Wikpedia I don't think I've ever heard something so crazy which someone seriously believed. This is not just a ridiculous Russian nationalist fantasy, it's sickening. Fanatical Russians clinging to the idea their finished state is actually still something for the world to fear because their country is only held together by the idea that it should wreak war on others, and America hating sympathisers who look for and support any possible states or entities that could rival the United States, no matter how brutal and disgusting they may be, whether it be such likes as China or Al-Quaeda. Russia is an absolutely finished state with a rapidly falling population that is now even smaller than Pakistan's, it's economy sits in a pathetic 11th position in the world which has been claimed many times is too low to be in the G8, its military spending in a poor 7th position with only a tiny number of its roting military still functioning, internal conflicts and borders falling apart with its regions such as Chechnya breaking away and technically became independent states with their own presidents.

How can Russia even for a second be seriously considered a superpower let alone be more powerful than the US when it can only just scrape in to claim to be a great power considering most other great powers such as the UK, France, Germany, Japan, Italy, and China out perform Russia in economic rankings and military spending rankings. Infact all great powers mentioned above have larger economies than Russia and only Italy spends less on its military, and not by very much.

Russia may very well have large reserves of oil and gas and tries to claim these make it oh so powerful of a country because it has reserves in similar size to that of Iran. Thing is reserves of oil and gas in similar size to that of Iran's have not made Iran a superpower, infact Iran isn't even a great power. Russia has a medium economic growth rate traditionally around 5% a year. The United States has an economic growth rate traditionally around 4% a year. When does Russia's economy expect to by pass America's? 2800? 5% economic growth is actually pretty poor for a developing economy, with such likes as China and India growing at around 9% or more, and it's only 1% higher than America's and America is fully developed. In fact how can the Russian economy even try to compare to the US economy when it's not even a developed economy?

It gets even more ridiculous when you try to compare numbers between Russia and the United States. Russia's $1.2 trillion economy versus the United States $13.7 trillion economy. That's around 13 times larger. The US economy equals 25% of the world's GDP. Russia's $40 billion military spending versus the USA's $583 billion military spending. The USA's military spending is 50% of the world's military spending. Russia's rapidly declining population of 142 million people versus the USA's rapidly rising population of 304 million people. When Russia's economy equals 26% of the world's GDP, its military spending equals 51% of world military spending, and a rapidly growing population of 305 million people THEN AND ONLY THEN is it a superpower more powerful than the United States

In case even all this still has't proved how pathetic Russian power is as of 2008 I've laid out Russia's rankings in important areas associated with power

• Economy

2007 List by the International Monetary Fund

Rank Country GDP (millions of USD) — Template:Country data World World 54,311,608 — European Union 16,830,100 1 United States 13,843,825 2 Japan 4,383,762 3 Germany 3,322,147 4 China 3,250,827 5 United Kingdom 2,772,570 6 France 2,560,255 7 Italy 2,104,666 8 Spain 1,438,959 9 Canada 1,432,140 10 Brazil 1,313,590 11 Russia 1,289,582 12 India 1,098,945 13 South Korea 957,053 14 Australia 908,826 15 Mexico 893,365 Military Rank Country Military expenditures (USD) Date of information — Template:Country data World World Total 1,200,000,000,000 2007 (projected est.) — NATO Total 849,875,309,000 1 United States 583,283,000,000 2008 — European Union Total 311,920,000,000 2007 2 France 74,690,470,000 2008-2009 3 United Kingdom 68,911,000,000 FY 2008-09 4 China 59,000,000,000 2008 5 Germany 45,930,000,000 2008 6 Japan 41,750,000,000 2007 7 Russia 40,000,000,000 2008 8 Italy 32,600,000,000 2008 (est.) 9 Saudi Arabia 31,050,000,000 2008 10 South Korea 28,940,000,000 2008 11 India 26,500,000,000 2008-2009[1] 12 Brazil 25,396,731,055 2008 13 Australia 20,727,710,000 2008 14 Canada 17,150,002,540 2008 15 Spain 15,792,207,000 2007 Population Rank Country/territory/entity Population Date % of world population Source — Template:Country data World World 6,671,226,000 July 1, 2007 100% UN estimate 1 People's Republic of China 1,436,411,000 August 7 2024 21.53% Chinese Population clock 2 India 1,382,971,000 August 7 2024 20.73% Indian Population clock 3 United States 338,206,000 August 7 2024 5.07% Official USA Population clock 4 Indonesia 231,627,000 3.47% UN estimate 5 Brazil 186,917,074 May 27, 2008 2.8% Official Brazilian Population clock 6 Pakistan 213,678,000 August 7 2024 3.2% Official Pakistani Population clock 7 Bangladesh 158,665,000 2.38% UN estimate 8 Nigeria 148,093,000 2.22% UN estimate 9 Russia 142,008,800 January 1, 2008 2.13% Federal State Statistics Service 10 Japan 127,720,000 March 1, 2008 1.92% Official Japan Statistics Bureau estimate 11 Mexico 106,535,000 1.6% UN estimate 12 Philippines 88,574,614 August 1, 2007 1.33% 2007 Official NSO Census Results 13 Vietnam 87,375,000 1.31% UN estimate 14 Germany 82,244,000 November 30, 2007 1.23% Federal Statistics Office estimate 15 Ethiopia 77,127,000 July 2007 1.16% Ethiopia Central Statistics Agency Signsolid (talk) 08:33, 31 May 2008 (UTC) I dont think its that much of a stretch to think that Russia can be considered a superpower, referring back to the soviet union, that was one of the only 2 in the world, but today it is hard to find similarities between the two, but Russia still has the same, if not larger stockpiles of nuclear weapons than the US, a good indicator in todays world of power status, economic power is also lacking but its oil and gas reserves are also important in these terms, but most importantly, the fact that russia is by far the largest country by land area in the world. but reflecting on history of Russia, like in world war I and II, the russian military or the "russian steamroller" (despite the fact that they were seriously underequipped and poorly managed) but still the sheer numbers of viable troops in russia also a key characteristic. P.S. Mind the spelling and grammar mistakes ;) Taifarious1 09:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC) "Blunt" may not be the right word, but long posts tend to sound like ranting and may be taken poorly. If you have a lot to say, try bulleted lists and similar formatting, it makes it a lot easier to read and might avoid confusion.Somedumbyankee (talk) 16:19, 31 May 2008 (UTC) Was that meant for me or 'Signsolid'? Taifarious1 01:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Signsolid. Actually, it's a comment I already made further up the page, but it's just as applicable here.Somedumbyankee (talk) 04:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC) This is just speculation on my part but does anybody else think that the Soviets never went away? I think they are holding to Lenin's advice, "one step backwards, two steps forward"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.76.228 (talk) 16:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC) I could see Russia being a superpower mainly because of its large land size and strong military (even if it's declining), but economically, it doesn't compare to America. America is no doubt a superpower and I don't know where people get the idea America is weak in both military and economy. Russia has had a very rich military history especially in past dumb attempts to invade it during winter (Napoleon and Hitler), and to my knowledge, they have never been fully invaded by another country within the past 1000 years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.178.207 (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2008 (UTC) Last invasion of Iceland is also more than 1000 yrs ago. It is hardly a superpower though ;-) Arnoutf (talk) 21:35, 5 June 2008 (UTC) How can Russia be a military superpower when its military is only the 7th strongest in the world? Does that mean France, United Kingdom, China, Germany, and Japan are also military superpowers because they all have more powerful militaries because they spend more on their militaries? Military strength is only determined by military spending. Also as for not being successfully invaded for 1000 years the UK hasn't been successfully invaded for 942 years as of 2008. Does that mean the UK can claim to be a superpower considering its not only not been successfully invaded for 1000 years its not even had any part of its territory occupied for 1000 years, unlike Russia which has had numerous countries occupy large amounts of it territory many times over tha past 1000 years, plus the UK spends a lot more on its military giving it arguably a more powerful military. So is the UK more of a military superpower than Russia? United States vs. Russia as Superpower countries Many people are wondering about the United States and its recession[2] economy as if its still a superpower with the current Iraq war, the falling US dollar[3] [4][5], high US minimum wages being outsourced for Chinese labor, a high unemployment rate, credit crisis[6] through US foreign policy spending, US inflation[7] [8][9] from the Federal Reserve lowing interest rates too low[10], a housing crisis, dependence from oil & high gas prices and etc. Where does the United States stand as a superpower versing Russia’s current superpower status? Read at these sources here to see how the United States is losing or is now considered a former superpower:[11][12] [13] Now there is Russia; a superpower (the United States only real counter partner as a superpower0[14] [15][16] [17] [18][19] [20] because they have the economics[21] [22], the wealth[23] [24], the diplomatic power[25] [26], ideological[27] [28] [29][30][31][32], technological power[33] [34][35][36][37]& advances[38] than any other country besides the United States (look here on why the US is losing its superpower status read here:[39][40][41]) recognizes Russia as a superpower [42], they have the cultural sector and lets not forget their military forces (supreme). Russia is also the largest military arsenal producer in the world (they hold 73% of the worlds military arsenals market) and they have the worlds largest nuclear weapons arsenal than another other country (newer & older which many are reconditioned as new again) which is 5 times greater than the US has. So Russia is a Superpower and lets not forget a Space Superpower, remember Russia has a Mar's mission coming up in 2015 [43]to 2024, also a Moon space station planned for 2015[44] without NASA but Russia going by itself; which NASA is out of funding due to a poor current US economy, 2007 & 2008. I do not start this article to brag about how wonderful Russia is, I started it because I am an American and I am seeing how the US is becoming a former superpower; even though I admire Russia as a country, I also admire my own country (USA) too. Russia is a Superpower, that's plenty of facts in the bag to state they are in that position. The United State's position[45][46] [47]), think what they are in for, a lot in the bag on the whole US economy on all sorts of issues, so we need to understand our Congress has put a lot of our problems right in front of us. US Congressman Ron Paul[48] was the only presidential candidate who would have saved the US as a superpower and our country. We cannot regret Russia is a superpower once again, that was always predicted they would achieve that goal and good for them, they stuck to their dreams and they brought it back. The US has done the opposite and we are heading down down the economic depression [49] tube to a great power nation because of Congress, Unions, Corporate greed and oil.{{unsigned If you want to save the United States, stop buying from US companies made in China (look for the labels and try to buy made in America only, store like Costco, Walmart, K-Mart, Best Buy, Staples and more are companies that buy made in China goods and we Americans buy these things by the millions each day), second visit Congress personally and request to bring down the US minimum wage and request to cap wages too high to cap them or lower high salaries so greed is enforced to stop US inflation. Read here as if we don’t do something we we’ll really suffer as China’s minimum wage is $.25 cents an hour as China has used its low labor population power to put their country on the Superpower front and we made that happen, please read an listen to this link: [50] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Versace11 (talk • contribs) 00:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC) This has nothing to do with improving the article. --Golbez (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Commenting on the remarks above re Superpower status, preceding the gratuitous POV paragraph, I checked the WP Superpower article, and see that the lede there asserts that the US and Russia both meet Superpower criteria as of 1991+15=2006. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 01:35, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Except that such a statement was actually added to that article by our new friend here. --Golbez (talk) 04:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Hmmm.... I hadn't looked at the string of external links seemingly intended to support the assertion in theSuperpower article that Russia "... has regained its role as a superpower once again." I just did that, and the info from those sources don't seem unanimous in supporting that assertion. Washington Acknowledges Russia as Superpower from KOMMERSANT (styling itself as "Russia's Daily Online", says yes as of May 26, 2007; Russia: A superpower rises again from CNN, says calls Russia "an energy superpower" as of December 13, 2006 A Former Superpower Rises Again from Speigel online, says "Second fiddle no longer" as of July 10, 2006 Russia on the march - again from telegraph.co.uk says "Putin wants to restore Russia to the superpower status it enjoyed under the Soviet Union" as of April 13, 2007 The re-emerging Russian superpower from russiaprofile.org says "re-emerging superpower" as of January 20, 2006 Russia in the 21st Century, a book review by cambridge.org says Russia "... intends to reemerge as a full-fledged superpower before 2010" The remaking of a superpower from BNET says that Putin "... Putin, understands what it will take to make Russia a global economic player [and Russia has] cast its fortunes with the West, militarily and economically." as of January 2002. Boiling that down, contrary to the assertion they're cited as supporting in the Superpower article lede, those sources don't seem to firmly and unanimously consider Russia to be a superpower. -- Boracay Bill (talk) 05:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Just a comment from an editor who has given up on the Potential superpowers article: "Superpower" on Wikipedia is taken to mean "really cool country that is totally awesome." Expect more challenges. As for the comment, It appears like someone's trying to find a good reason for us to support Ron Paul, but I'll assume he just doesn't the technicalities of what goes on a talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Somedumbyankee (talk • contribs) 05:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC) I viewed these articles too, real interesting point made he about the US as a former superpower by the Austin Chronicle Texas[51] is believing more and more each day how bad the United States is economically. We hit $134 a barrel today with oil prices, $5.00 up just today. Now Russia as a superpower is believing as well. Russia is certaintly in a good position to place there part as a superpower country. As much as what is said in these articles above, the editor is right on the button with the facts as I read them too, Russia is a superpower.--64.69.158.252 (talk) 05:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Ugh, I think I fed the troll. Bad SDY.Somedumbyankee (talk) 06:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Good points, US is losing its superpower and Russia comes right back again. A good book on Russia as a superpower is called Russia in the 21st Century: The Prodigal Superpower by Steven Rosefielde 2004 [52] The book is about Russia intends to reemerge as a full-fledged superpower before 2010, challenging America and China and potentially threatening a new arms race. Yet with the all the stuff on CNN about them saying Russia is a superpower again, I believe they already are the superpower just without the 15 post Soviet countries they once had. Personally I am impressed considering how broke they were and how Russia paid off its entire deficit in 2006 from 15 years of paying off debt and turning all the post soviet military agencies down in 1991, everything has all been funded for and turned on again, all running again as it did. Really I have to give them hands up for that and Putin, his presidency he is favored almost more than 80% (look at George Bush, he is favored lower than 23%, everybody wants him gone). The Russian’s aren’t dumb, that’s for sure but the United States and the heat of water they are in right now, nothing to laugh about now. Russia isn't playing around; they are playing their cards carefully. Superpower indeed but the US forcing NATO in post soviet countries over the years is a violation against US's promises to Russia back in 1991 by President Ronald Reagan making a promise and look at it today, NATO is in Czech Rep, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Romania, Bulgaria, Lithuania and besides Georgia & Ukraine wanting in (just rejected last April 2008 because Russia is really angry at NATO as Russia is the oil supplier for Western/Eastern Europe)[53]. Who brought this on? The United States pushed it and that is against what Reagan promised Russia but the US has violated its promise. Russia should defend itself from this bull dog the United States has been dying lying to Russia. These countries above shouldn't be NATO members and the US promised no NATO expansion in post soviet countries and look at the US has done. Created an angry superpower back up again Russia.--24.176.166.135 (talk) 09:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC) Also the article by CNN[54] "Russia, a Superpower Raises Again" as goes into details about how Russia was always a superpower regardless if it was always an energy superpower but it goes on to say it was a superpower even after 1991.--24.176.166.135 (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC) To whom this concerns Several months ago I drew the ire of a few users by repeatedly attempting to insert and remove within one particular article several terms and statements which some identified as "vandalism" (even comparing it to some of the worst defacements committed on this site). I admit that while most of my content was legitimate and well-documented, the practice by which I was inserting it was less than professional. I ultimately issued an apology for this flawed method of editing as well as for several less-than-professional statements directed at a few other users. Still, I was also the target of several unnecessary threats and insults which have been seemingly ignored since then (an administrator at one point even defended the unorthodox statements of one user). Furthermore, the branding of a "troublemaker" resulted in the disregard and deletion of several of my contributions in other articles without any formal or legitimate reasoning for doing so. I agreed to apologize for the mistakes I made, now I am requesting the same from those who did wrong towards me. M5891 (talk) 14:00, 3 June 2008 (UTC) Why don't you name them, then they might know who you are referring to. Just a suggestion! Joe Deagan (talk) 01:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC) I am referring to DCGeist, Evb-wiki, and John. Some of their actions were rational and well justified but most of their statements towards and concerning me were not. M5891 (talk) 01:20, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Its alright, i accept your apology. I am glad we cleared this up. User:notadormattandapig —Preceding comment was added at 09:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC) hmmm... wangdoodle! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.208.93.56 (talk) 01:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC) Offensive ASCII image boldly removed per WP:TALK.Somedumbyankee (talk) 01:19, 4 June 2008 (UTC) Race and Ethnicity The Demographics section regarding race and ethnicity must be fixed. It is quite confusing, referring to black as a race and Latino as an ethnicity, and discounts Latinos when referencing the largest minority group. Even if this is according to the US census definitions on race & ethnicity, it would be better if that issue is resolved so there isn't any contradictions. Furthermore, the chart on the same issue has to be fixed. It needs to distinguish whether it factors Caucasian-Latinos as Caucasian. Currently, the chart doesn't differentiate, and the percentages add up to over 100% Intranetusa (talk) 17:13, 9 June 2008 (UTC) It says 'of any race', how do you propose we cut it to 100%? I don't think it would make sense to have separate entries for 'caucasian', 'caucasian-latino', 'african-american', 'african-american-latino', et.al. --Golbez (talk) 17:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Hispanic or Latino is not a race, but an ethnic group. Hispanics are the largest ethnic minority, but they are not the largest racial minority. I'm not sure where the contradictions are. The only way to make the percent not be over 100% would be to report on race only and take out the Hispanic/Latino group, or have a different one for ethnicity and race. Do you think that it should be made more clearer that Hispanic is not a race? Kman543210 (talk) 23:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC) It's the census bureau's fault. "In the United States, the term is in official use in the ethnonym Hispanic or Latino, defined as "a person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin regardless of race."" Many people, if you removed 'Hispanic' from the table, would come to the article and be confused - where's all the Latinos? They aren't white or black, they're Hispanic! And so on and so forth. It can be explained better, but I don't think it can be separated. --Golbez (talk) 23:20, 9 June 2008 (UTC) You're right that some people when they think of Hispanic are thinking of Mestizo (half white, half Amerindian), which isn't used very often in the U.S. The term was never meant to designate race, but when the news or police make a physical description of someone on television, they say white, African American, or Hispanic as if it were a race (but that doesn't make it correct). The U.S. Census definition of Hispanic is the correct definition. The other option would be to put a box about reported ethnic groups such as Hispanics, German, English, French, etc... to separate race from ethnic categories. I'm not confused by the information because I've always understood the correct definitions, but I can see how it would be confusing to have it add up to over 100%. I do object to separating Hispanics by race though in the info box. Kman543210 (talk) 23:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC) "Modern Era" This section is nothing more than a left-wing Bush-bashing catharsis and not a history of the United States of America during the "Modern Era". Either make this section a proper history of the United States or delete it entirely. --ATS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.45.72.27 (talk) 00:51, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Please point out any inaccuracys and I'm sure someone would be willing to change it for you! Joe Deagan (talk) 20:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC) The 'Modern Era' in the US can be seen as post-WW II. For WW II, the country underwent an unprecedented militarization. The War was won by the US and Allies but the US never went back to a non-agressive stance and has since : - Renamed the War Department the Department of Defense (although it is forbidden to operate on US soil, resulting in all of its activities being invasions) - Invaded the following coutries: Korea, Viet Nam, Falkland Islands, Afghanistan, Iraq, and it seems that the fecal-brained US president wants to 'pull a Bush' in Iran.... - Remained in a state of readiness for war. This is a complete change in US policy and has caused national leaders, like adolescents who recently discovered masturbation, to revel in what he can do.... = Supported "leaders" of brutal dictatorships for 'advantage' in an imaginary Cld War fueled by Mutual Assured paranoia (See 'Dr. Strangelove') previous unsigned comment was added by Hkerfoot Wikipedia:NPOV Kman543210 (talk) 04:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC) Can registered users add information to this section? There is much more information that needs to be filled in here as well as corrected. If we cannot make changes, then how are updates or improvements made and who makes them? -MarkDalit —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDalit (talk • contribs) 20:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC) As a Wikipedia article, yes, United States may be edited by any reasonably established registered user (because of the high profile of the topic and a history of rampant vandalism, the article may not be edited by unregistered users and those who have just registered within the past few days). Please keep the following in mind, however. The article is very long as is. There is a general consensus that it should not get any longer except as necessary to keep pace with the most major developments (such as the results of the forthcoming elections). When you say that there "is much more information that needs to be filled in here," be aware that many will disagree with you; please consider adding the information you're interested in to the relevant topical articles if it does not already appear there. As far as information that needs to be "corrected," it might help if you explained what you had in mind first here on the Talk page. The article is very well cited, and a significant error has not been exposed in it for quite some time. All the best, Dan.—DCGeist (talk) 20:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC) Thanks DCGeist. After how many days past registration may a new registered user make changes? -- MarkDalit —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkDalit (talk • contribs) 20:54, 17 June 2008 (UTC)