User talk:Kansas Bear

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Safavids

Hello. What do you suggest for the Safavids page? I think that there should not be any reference to their origin in the intro, since this is a controversial toppic and because the many sources contradict each other. The origin should be discussed in the "origin" section and the reader should be given a transparent summary of all reliable sources. What do you think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.82.143.168 (talk) 03:03, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

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expanding Muslim military history task force

I have been reelected coordinator and brought up the old discussion about expanding Muslim military history to the present day. This has been an issue raised by Muslim editors when the task force was founded. It would be great if you could help expanding the articles that present what makes Islams treatment of war effect especially the Muslim warfare. I have been reading a bit on the topic and can help you with advice, but feel myself not confident enough with my limited knowledge. Wandalstouring (talk) 12:37, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

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Pontic Greek Genocide

Hi Kansas Bear. Thank you for your message and for your tactful approach but tact is completely unnecessary in this case. Far from being a personal conversation, this topic is open to anyone. Your contribution was appreciated and this is why I personally thanked you on the talk page (diff). I agree with you. I have been in difficult conversations before but this one is exceptional in the sense of all the semantic inventions employed to change the title of the article, in spite of all the available information. That's why when I saw your comments I realised that, despite all the fog raised in the discussion, there were other people, external to the debate, who could see through that. Seeing also that you are a historian made your comments even more relevant. Please consider this an invitation to further contribute to this debate. Your expertise is greatly needed in such a difficult topic. Thanks again and take care. Dr.K. (talk) 04:24, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Kansas Bear for your message. It is remarkable how your perception of this situation regarding Phlip's stance is identical to mine. If you noticed I don't participate in this debate any longer due to the fact that despite my arguments and objections and the many more arguments presented from other users as well as your well taken points about the holocaust etc., we all seem to be talking to a wall. I don't know where this is going given his attitude but others are still participating for some reason submitting loads of new sources. Anyway this whole process looks irregular. Maybe we have to have another admin/expert or a group of admins that can take over this exchange and handle it in a more objective manner. Thank you again because you completely validated my original perception of Philip's attitude point by point and I really appreciate that. Take care. Dr.K. (talk) 12:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Your recent edits to Guenter Lewy

I have reverted your recent edits to this article per Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Remove_unsourced_or_poorly_sourced_contentious_material, as they employed an original research interpretation of the sources cited to advance a controversial claim concerning a living person contained nowhere in the sources themselves. Please note that per Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons#Blocking, your account may be blocked if you continue to restore this material. John254 22:56, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

No need to panic, sooner or later someone in wiki was going to disagree with you. Thats when you use the talkpage and quote from reliable sources. And In Lewy's case you can actually quote him. I also replied here --VartanM (talk) 06:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Comment

Hi can you comment here: [[1]]. Since I think you have been watching this guy and his irrational claims, as well as his foul language. --alidoostzadeh (talk) 17:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

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Dallas Dhu

Ha. Slainte Nestorius (talk) 06:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello, Kansas Bear. You have new messages at Nestorius's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

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EOKA edit

Hi Kansas Bear.

Quick question - I tweaked the EOKA article (anonymously unfortunately) as Grivas didn't appear to have had a distinguished WWII? I appreciate this is a touchy subject so I may be wrong, but couldn't see anything in the actual Grivas item to support this. His early military career seems to be distinguished (decorated for bravery, etc) but was there anything similar for WWII?

Cheers Alunwyn (talk) 11:45, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

PKK as a terrorist organization

Why you are removing the "terrorist" term? --Ilhanli (talk) 23:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

"The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization" and "The PKK is a terrorist organization" are very different thing. What isn't needed is a person with nationalistic intentions, trying to "glorify" a terroris organization which killed even Kurdish babies, which babies' familes refused to help PKK [2]. --Ilhanli (talk) 00:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC) If there is a source that it is a terrorist organization, then it means that it is a terrorist organization. Or can we say that "Hitler is listed as main man of killing the Jews"? Is listed... is listed... Al-Qaeda is listed as terrorist organization but it is not?--Ilhanli (talk) 00:53, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

You mean this statement,

Al-Qaeda has been labeled a terrorist organization by the United Nations Security Council,[5] the North Atlantic Treaty Organization Secretary General,[6][7] the Commission of the European Communities of the European Union,[8] the United States Department of State,[9] the Australian Government,[10] Public Safety Canada,[11] the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs,[12] Japan's Diplomatic Bluebook,[13] South Korean Foreign Ministry,[14] the Dutch Military Intelligence and Security Service,[15] the United Kingdom Home Office,[16] Pakistan, Russia,[17] the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs,[18] and the Swiss Government.[19]

Sounds similar to this statement:

The PKK is listed as a terrorist organization internationally by a number of states and organizations, including the United States,[6][7] NATO and the European Union.[8]

Both are statements backed by documentation. Not simple childish nationalistic libel. Kansas Bear (talk) 01:02, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

So you mean that this statement should be chanced:

"The September 11, 2001 attacks (often referred to as 9/11) were a series of coordinated suicide attacks by al-Qaeda upon the United States." as

"The September 11, 2001 attacks (often referred to as 9/11) were a series of coordinated suicide attacks by al-Qaeda according to USA government and mass media upon the United States.

So, you say that the firs statement above is written by a child? There are examples like that. Why there are two different standards?

OK, you will learn them while you grow.--Ilhanli (talk) 17:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Typical, when you can't win the argument, you resort to Strawman Fallacies. So far, you've posted nationalism, libel, and logic fallacies. Continue your personal attacks and you'll be blocked soon enough. Kansas Bear (talk) 21:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

It's just a matter of the Wikipedia structure and time, not that I am wrong. --Ilhanli (talk) 00:18, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Wrong, again. Hamas for example:

Ḥamas (حركة حماس; acronym: حركة المقاومة الاسلامية, or Ḥarakat al-Muqawama al-Islamiyya or "Islamic Resistance Movement"[citation needed]) is a Palestinian Sunni Islamist[1] militant organization and political party which currently holds a majority of seats in the elected legislative council of the Palestinian Authority.

Hezbollah:

Hezbollah[1] (Arabic: حزب الله‎ ḥizba-llāh,[2] literally "party of God") is a Shi'a Islamic political and paramilitary organisation based in Lebanon. The group's official name in Arabic is Hizb Allah Al-moqawama Al-Islamiyah fi Lubnan

Odd, both opening statements DO NOT mention them being terrorist organizations. Yet you in your puerile POV insist on making that type of change for the PKK. These examples prove your POV is nationalistically driven and biased. Kansas Bear (talk) 21:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

So you claim that EU and USA are nationalist and biased, too.--Ilhanli (talk) 22:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Spare me your strawman fallacies. If you can't accept the facts, that is your problem. Kansas Bear (talk) 00:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry mate, I tried to edit an article regarding this issue a bit hastily. I was just a bit too emotional as I lost 2 relatives in a bomb blast in Istanbul that was conducted by this group unfortunately. I just wish all acts of terrorism and warfare stop so no one else will ever be in sorrow. Anyways I'm not really a nationalist (in fact my political views lean towards social democracy but I'm going off track now), but I just can't seem to understand your arguement no matter how much I try to understand it. What more do terrorist groups have to do to be branded a terrorist organisation by some people? Or would they only be a 'terrorist organisation' if they directly oppose the USA or EU? If a group is confirmed to commit acts of terrorism (which you confirm as well I believe, as the article points out facts and they have not been deleted; I appreciate the effort in the article by the way) then isn't that enough for them to be a terrorist group in reality? Thanks.Joebobby1985 (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

If you have any questions regarding Wiki-policies[3], please feel free to contact an Admin. Kansas Bear (talk) 22:24, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah thanks for the link. It cleared it up a bit now. I checked the page on Al'Qaeda and its written in the same manner. Joebobby1985 (talk) 00:15, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

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AfD nomination of Erich Feigl

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Muhammad Ali of Egypt

Hey Kansas Bear,

Regarding your question on whether Muhammad Ali Pasha of Egypt spoke Arabic, I can confirm that there are decrees written in Arabic signed by Muhammad Ali in museums in Egypt. There are also many statements in Arabic by Muhammad Ali that are documented in Egyptian historical literature. The history as taught in Egypt is that upon his arrival in Egypt, Muhammad Ali's Arabic was essentially limited to Koranic recitation common to practicing Muslims of all nationalities; in addition to his native tongue of Albanian, his was also competent in Ottoman Turkish, a prerequisite for serving in the Ottoman military; during his nearly 50 years in Egypt, he developed competency in Arabic (at the time, both Albanian and Turkish were written in the Arabic script, making this transition easier), however, it is also stated that his knowledge of Arabic was inferior to Ottoman Turkish, and of course far inferior to his knowledge of Albanian; this was also the case with the senior members of the Egyptian military and aristocracy (who were also Albanian-Macedonians), explaining why Albanian and Ottoman Turkish retained a primary role in Egypt until the reign of Ismail Pasha. As stated, this is the history taught in Egypt.

Of anecdotal nature, the validity of which I cannot be equally sure, is that some aristocrats and military officers complained to Ismail Pasha of his insistence on the use of Arabic by asserting that Muhammad Ali's use of Arabic was for formal purposes inside Egypt only and that he continued to use Albanian among his family and advisors, and Ottoman Turkish for his relations with the Porte.

I hope this clarifies the matter for you. Please note that as this is a shared computer used by numerous people, any replies that you might leave might not immediately be seen by me.

84.66.10.99 (talk) 20:57, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Gaston d'Orléans

Kansas Bear: Please go to Talk:Gaston, Duke of Orléans. Frania W. (talk) 03:52, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I've protected the page. I didn't semi-protect it because typically we only s-protect for cases of obvious vandalism, not content disputes. Regardless, hopefully this will force the anon to discuss his/her edits on the talk page. Khoikhoi 05:16, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Reverting my Edits

It was quite silly of you to revert my edits on the Assyrian Genocide page without considering why I made the changes. If you examine the actual sources, you'll will note they don't speak of "Pontic Greeks" but "Greeks", not "Pontic Greek Genocide" but "Greek Genocide". If you want them to pertain specifically to Pontus, then please change the sources accordingly. Thank you. Bebek101 (talk) 13:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Re.Gaston d'Orleans

Hello Kansas Bear and thank you for contacting me. Sorry I couldn't reply earlier, but you left your message on my talk page shortly after I went to bed. I see that the article is now fully protected so no further disruption shall occur for some time. Maybe it is now time to discuss with that IP the accuracy (or inaccuracy) of his edits. Because if his edits are deemed inaccurate and lacking sources, he will not be allowed to keep reinstating them in the article, even after the protection is lifted. Regards, Húsönd 13:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe Frania Wisniewska has illustrated 81.159.252.120's mistakes. Also, 81.159.252.120 has graced us on the Gaston d'Orleans talk page with his childish insults[4]. Kansas Bear (talk) 22:52, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

Adnan Adivar

This is totally inappropriate. Please do not make any more uncivil comments like that again. Users who continue to violate WP:CIVIL will eventually be blocked. Khoikhoi 19:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

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Your edit in Russo-Turkish war of 1877-78

You edited a quotation I had provided. There are two sentences from two sources describing the events in chronological order. You appended to the first sentence describing events taking place 10 days later. The original was as follows:

"They turned savagely on the Muslim Turks, whom they started to massacre." "The revolts now spread, leading to the massacre of hundreds of Muslims and the seizure of the main Ottoman forts in the Balkan ports nearby."

You tuned it into the following:

"They turned savagely on the Muslim Turks, whom they started to massacre. But within ten days their revolt was suppressed, with a savagery more terrible, by Turkish irregular forces let loose in revenge." "The revolts now spread, leading to the massacre of hundreds of Muslims and the seizure of the main Ottoman forts in the Balkan ports nearby."

How is the reader supposed to know the time of the events in the last sentence? Your edit is simply out of a bad intent. The events in the part you added is already mentioned in the following paragraph. You claim to be a historian but to appreciate history one has to have a sense of time and chronology. I will correct the article.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 02:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

If you have a problem with the sentence, "But within ten days their revolt was suppressed, with a savagery more terrible, by Turkish irregular forces let loose in revenge.", then you should talk to Kinross. It is a direct quote from the same book, same page and follows the quote that you gave. You simply removed the part you didn't agree with, as usual. I did not add the Shaw & Shaw quote, that follows the Kinross quote. If you are so worried about chronology, then remove your Kinross quote, since it doesn't state when those events transpired. Any changes will be reverted. Kansas Bear (talk) 02:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Kansas Bear, can you please somehow provide (possibly scan) page 509 from Kinross? If we can see the entire page then this will hopefully resolve things. Khoikhoi 02:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

BTW, you've added the following quotes from Kinross:

1. "They turned savagely on the Muslim Turks, whom they started to massacre. But within ten days their revolt was suppressed, with a savagery more terrible, by Turkish irregular forces let loose in revenge."
2. "But within ten days their revolt was suppressed, with a savagery more terrible, by Turkish irregular forces let loose in revenge. Killing in a single month no fewer than 12,0000 Christians."

Are they both from the same paragraph, or even page? Again, it would be helpful if I could see the actual page. Khoikhoi 02:37, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't have a scanner, but go to Amazon.com. Type in "The Ottoman Centuries"(you'll have to have an account), click on search irregular, click on page 509.

In Bulgaria a rebel leader, with visions of himself as a Slave Napoleon, had pledged his followers to terrorist methods. They turned savagely on the Moslem Turks, whom they started to massacre. But within ten days their revolt was suppressed, with a savagery more terrible, by Turkish irregular forces let loosse in revenge. They committed atrocities stigmatized by the British commissioner from Istanbul as "perhaps the most heinous crime of the present century". Burning innumerable villages to the ground, they spared neither age nor sex in an outbreak of indiscriminate massacre, killing in a single month no fewer than twelve thousand Christians. Their orgy of slaughter and arson and rape culminated in the mountain village of Batak. Here a thousand Christians found refuge in a church, to which the irregular troops set fire with rags soaked in petrol, burning all to death but a single old woman. In all, so it was reported, five thousand out of the seven thousand villagers of Batak perished at their hands.

That is where page 509 ends. Italic sentence is Nostradamus1's, bold is mine. This quote, "Killing in a single month no fewer than 12,0000 Christians." was removed by me. Kansas Bear (talk) 02:47, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I do not need to talk to Kinross. My question to you is why did you stop at that sentence. Add the entire paragraph then. I was providing the details of the events which you want to suppress by insisting on a the follow up sentence. This makes the following sentence invalid. You intentionally are altering the context to magnify you POV.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 02:57, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Kansas Bear (talk) 03:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Nostradamus that the quote you added was already basically covered in the following paragraph. I added some additional information from Kinross, but perahps it could be turned into an actual sentence instead of a quote. Khoikhoi 03:38, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Good for Nostradamus. He has a nationalistic agenda. I'm simply trying to keep the article from devolving into nationalistic POV. Kansas Bear (talk) 04:15, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I want the article to be balanced as well, which is why I added the additional info about the village of Batak. Didn't you notice? Khoikhoi 04:40, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

No. Let Nostradamus do as he wants. With "List of Turkic States..." and other ultra-nationalistic articles, he has an agenda and nothing will stand in the way of that agenda. I simply want the information to be backed by credible references without the ultra-nationalistic POV. But ANYONE that edits information that Nostradamus doesn't agree with is POV pushing, regardless if the information is the sentence directly after the quote he just gave. In no way is his "cherry-picking" of sentences chronological or indicative of how real sources are used.

If you don't believe it is chronological or indicative of how real sources are used, can you please clarify and bring it up on the talk page? Khoikhoi 08:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Have you read the paragraph from Kinross? Should I take ONE sentence from that paragraph and pass it off as what was said in that paragraph? This has happened on "List of Turkic States..." as well. Where information contained, usually a sentence before or after one he added, was conveniently "left out"[5]. Where upon he asks for sources/page numbers in an attempt to remove said information that clearly doesn't agree with his nationalistic views[6], yet the sentences were on both pages of both books of the references he supplied. That is distorting references. Kansas Bear (talk) 22:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention his prejudice against Bulgarians and Iranians;

I have been involved in the article List of Turkic states for the past several months. Despite my mediation request half a dozen or so Iranian and several Bulgarian users dominated the article shaping it to their POV. .--Nostradamus1 (talk) 15:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Kansas Bear (talk) 17:47, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

I will be asking one more time where in that source the three Bulgarian dynasties are said to be of 'partial Cuman origin. The sentence you added does not imply that. The rest of your argument above speaks for itself and needs no further elaboration about your motives. The only thing I want to remind you is that when you start accusing others with having ultra-nationalistic agendas you are entering the grey zones. One of these days they will constitute a personal attack. Knowing history does not make people ultra-nationalists. It is you in concert with some others who have been editing these articles and trying to find ways to undo my contributions by including such out-of-context quotations as it is exemplified in this particular case.--Nostradamus1 (talk) 03:19, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"As a consequence, groups of the Cumans and the Tatars settled and mingled with the local population in the various regions of the Balkans."

"To replace Ivailo, the Bulgarian bolyars chose Georgi I Terter, possibly a Cuman in ethnic origin." Kansas Bear (talk) 03:45, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice

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Weird additions

Bonjour Kansas Bear! As I was leaving a msg on Khokhoi's talk page, I encountered a problem with someone editing the page at the same time... It was you. This is what I left on his page:

Several *sculpture* figures are being put in articles related to French historical personnages: princesse de Lamballe, Mme de Montespan, Mme de Maintenon. They do not belong there. Checking the contributors' IP address - all beginning 75.106.192. with last two numbers different - reveals a history of vandalism. Would you mind checking this? Thank you.

The IP addresses are 75.106.192.58 and 75.106.192.39. More may have been added since I last looked. Aurevoir! FW Frania W. (talk) 19:21, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Re

Looks like it's already been taken care of. Khoikhoi 07:19, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

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Famille d'Orléans

i think you will find that the edits that i made to the children of the Régent de France and his wife, were made in order to repair the link to their grandmother Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate who was recently moved to her 'correct' name. as regards to their paternal grandfather, as a fils de france, he was styled as Philippe de France, duc d'Orléans his official name and highest ranking title. i will let you work that out for yourself. 86.164.92.185 (talk) 00:18, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

fils de france

it is not difficult to work out that a son of france (and a daughter) would have been styled X de France!!!!!!!! i fail to see why on many pages your edits regard this obssession of yours. its very dull AND unnecessary....please stop it 86.164.92.185 (talk) 00:23, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I fail to see why you think your "writing" is superior to anyone's. Kansas Bear (talk) 03:00, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

did i say my writing was? 81.159.253.180 (talk) 11:17, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Your juvenile statement, " your edits regard this obsession of yours. its very dull and unnecessary.". Would indicate otherwise. When left to your own devices, the reader would have thought Elizabeth Charlotte was married to "Monsieur" or "Fils de France"!! At the French court, her husband was known by the traditional honorific of Monsieur. None of your assertions have ever been followed by any factual sources, which is why your edits are haphazard and puerile. Kansas Bear (talk) 20:45, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

ahhh...in order to shut up up...i will now source my edits...but then again 'I fail to see why you think your "writing" is superior to anyone's also 86.167.207.8 (talk) 13:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I find your response dull and unnecessary. Kansas Bear (talk) 14:11, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

a mature and predictable response.... 86.167.207.8 (talk) 23:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Which explains why you continue your puerile attacks. Kansas Bear (talk) 12:23, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

i do not give up 86.167.207.8 (talk) 13:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

???

can you not read...? 81.159.253.180 (talk) 11:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

End of summer

Like the French say: "c'est la rentrée" et j'ai l'impression qu'on est reparti pour un tour. Bon courage! Frania W. (talk) 16:33, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, Frania. Kansas Bear (talk) 15:03, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Unsourced Bulk of text

Hi, Kansas Bear! the edit you performed [7] regarding the bulk of text added by user user:90.192.126.127. The text needs to be discussed at the talk space before inclusion into the article. It looks like a copy-vio from another source. The incorporation of large text, without the cited references, is a red tag regarding the violation of wikipedia rules. Besides the text includes very controversial arguments (I plainlu claim wrong) regarding the issues already established in the wikipedia with sources, such as the claims voiced that Ataturk oppose the policies defined by Misak-ı Millî which was signed by the Ataturk himself. Thank your for your care and consideration. You should also look at the Mustafa_Kemal_Atatürk's_leadership_of_the_independence_war#The_mandates_and_National_Pact regarding mandates and its link to Misak-ı Millî --Rateslines (talk) 15:20, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

That's fine. I usually try to keep the article from any vandalism or massive changes. Kansas Bear (talk) 16:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Cyrus cylinder

FYI, I'm going to be working on an alternate version of the Cyrus cylinder page which would limit all the "reviews" and subjective interpretations of the cylinder (negative or positive) to direct quotes fully attributed to their authors. I'll be making an attempt to replace the sections As a charter of human rights and As an instrument of royal propaganda with a Legacy section. It would be made up of two sub-sections called "proponents" and "critics", containing the various views on the cylinder as direct quotes, while leaving the rest of article to a factual description to give readers a neutral presentation of what the cylinder is, as opposed to what it represents or means -- free of spin or speculation. Feel free to contribute to the temporary page at User:Khoikhoi/Cyrus cylinder. Khoikhoi 00:50, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Re. Recognition of the Armenian Genocide

Hello Kansas Bear. I personally oppose Armenian genocide denial, therefore I am not the best admin to perform any administrative action against the disruptive user. Still, it is pretty obvious that Turkish user Runningfridgesrule is attempting to enforce Turkish POV into the article through weasel words. I have now watchlisted this article and will help revert any POV insertions from him. That should suffice to keep him under control. Yet, if more users join his side, which I doubt, this situation will require full page protection and dispute resolution. Regards, Húsönd 14:47, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Kansas Bear (talk) 17:48, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Your opinion

Hi what is your opinion on this:[8]. --Nepaheshgar 18:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

That wiki-politics and frightened editors make me sick. This wasn't an issue, until I pointed out that Farrokh was a doctor in Persian linguistics!! Kansas Bear (talk) 20:16, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Re

Hi, sorry for my late reply. Unfortunately I don't have access to those books. Do you know what they say and whether they support Nostradamus' edits? IMO saying "Turko-Chinese" for some of these dynasties is stretching it, most of the Turks in China became assimilated (excluding those in Xinjiang), so it's hard to tell how much Turkic ancestry these dynasties actually had (correct me if I'm wrong). Also, thanks for the links regarding the Cyrus cylinder. I'll check em out later. Khoikhoi 20:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Left a note on his talk page. Khoikhoi 05:33, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: Insults

Hi, Kansas Bear. I've given the IP a warning for that personal attack he left on your talk page. If he does it again, be sure to let me or another administrator know. Cheers, –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 15:42, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Kansas Bear (talk) 17:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding 24.67.253 203, I've warned him for edit warring on Murad Gumen. Let me know if he continues edit warring, or if he violates WP:3RR. Additionally, have you considered posting at WP:ANI? Cheers, –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 00:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I guess it has already been posted. Thanks anyway. Kansas Bear (talk) 02:19, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Murad Gumen

Hi, I've repeatedly tried to get the Murad Gumen page protected, but for some reason they don't allow it. Do you have any idea what's going on here? E10ddie (talk) 22:13, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Many thanks for your kind comments Kansas Bear. Tasos (Dr.K. (talk) 22:28, 6 October 2008 (UTC))

You are most welcome. Sir. Kansas Bear (talk) 04:15, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

I am honoured. Tasos (Dr.K. (talk) 06:04, 7 October 2008 (UTC))

Content Dispute

You might be interested in the discussion here: [9] --Nepaheshgar (talk) 00:44, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Warning

As I was examining Hudavendigar's editing on Van, Turkey and Armenia–Turkey relations, I noticed that you had on many occasions reverted his edits. Please be aware that edit warring is not conducive to a productive article-building environment, and that it is a blockable offense. In the future, please stick to the mantras of WP:1RR and WP:BRD or request full page protection at WP:RFPP in cases of impending edit wars. Thanks, Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 20:59, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

What is the penalty for removing referenced material from an article? Kansas Bear (talk) 22:24, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I've already blocked Hudavendigar for violating his editing restrictions. In the future, I ask that you refrain from edit warring unless you have a legitimate reason for doing so. Thanks, Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 22:57, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

From my understanding now, there is no reason to revert anyone's edits, as in this one here[10], which is a continued effort to remove referenced material. Along with continued insults[11], which warrant no warning. Kansas Bear (talk) 00:19, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say you couldn't revert; I asked you not to edit war. Edit warring is when parties repeatedly revert each others' edits. It would be appropriate to revert this, since the editor provided an insufficient reason for blanking half the article. The current editing at Messianic Judaism would constitute edit warring, since SkyWriter and Jayjg have repeatedly reverted each other. It looks like these editors are now going to stop edit warring and start discussing on the article talk page, so I'll stay out of that matter for now. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 19:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Your best approach is to continue instructing the user to stop reverting and start discussing. If these efforts prove futile, then you can ask for an administrator to intervene. If he continues, I'll issue a warning. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 04:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Re. John Titor

Hello Kansas Bear and thank you for contacting me. I'm sorry that I did not give immediate attention to your request, but I have been terribly busy lately. I see that the anonymous user has been receiving warnings, I'll additionally warn him against the 3RR. If he makes another reversion please let me know. Thank you. Regards, Húsönd 18:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Problem

FisherQueen already warned him for his overall poor behavior, and I added a {{3rr}}. I added that page to my watchlist. –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 17:04, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:35, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Denial of the Armenian Genocide

I consider this edit a breach of WP:CIVIL and even if you do not accept that it is see meta:Don't be a dick#Calling someone a dick and consider if someone was to call you a "dickhead" (because the meta article does not mean don't be a private detective) whether you would find it easy to work constructively with them on this project? --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 21:56, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

you should not change talk page contributions by other editors (see WP:TALK "As a rule, do not edit others' comments, including signatures. Exceptions are described in the next section."), particularly if you are in dispute with them. It is much better to report such abuse to WP:ANI. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 17:49, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

A simple mistake on my part, where I jumped to far back when I added my reply. Anything else? --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:05, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I appreciate your fact checking. Keep it up. --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 21:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Maybe I need a sanity check. Does my source not support my assertion that Akcam has received financial support from diaspora Armenians? I merely said he has been accused of bias, not that he is. --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 16:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

About Laveol

I don't know if you are from the balkans, and if you know what all stuff is about. But i can't watch Laveol's "Barnstar of National Merit" given to him for replacing every single word "macedonian" with 'bulgarian". You don't know what Macedonia suffers from her neighbours in every single moment. We haven't done nothing bad to them, but they use every moment of they're lifes to hurt us. I dont hate them. But they hate me. Only because I exist and my indentity did not die in so many cetnuries. I still don't know if you understand me, but i hope that some day the world will live us alone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.162.4 (talk) 01:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't justify vandalizing Laveol's talk page. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:04, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I's appreciate it if you didn't vandalize my page and created an account finally. Btw I didn't know you were "centuries old", is this so? Thanks for the revert, Kansas :) --Laveol ^T 09:18, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

No problem. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not vandalizinng. Vanadalizing is Laveol's "enormous contribution to Bulgaria based articles". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.28.166.69 (talk) 00:56, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, your actions are vandalism. If you have a problem with an editor, use the talk page in a constructive manner. Your actions simply label you as a vandal/troll, which will resolve nothing. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Kansas Bear

Like your name!

Warrington (talk) 13:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

You have me at a disadvantage, sir. Do I know you? --Kansas Bear (talk) 06:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes. No. Just passing by. Have a nice day!

Warrington (talk) 09:42, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

RE: Génocide arménien

Kansas Bear: This article was published in the French newspaper Le Figaro on 17 December: http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/2008/12/17/01003-20081217ARTFIG00043-les-excuses-d-intellectuels-turcs-aupres-des-armeniens-.php

It might interest you.

Joyeux Noël & bonne fin d'année!

Frania W. (talk) 18:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Joyeux Noel, Frania! Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Bonjour Teddy... Kansas Bear: Read today this 21 February 2009 article published in Le Figaro:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/lefigaromagazine/2009/02/21/01006-20090221ARTFIG00097--armenie-mon-amour-.php

Cordialement, FW Frania W. (talk) 18:14, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Valide Sultan

Please see Bezmiâlem. Mukadderat (talk) 20:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Which supports the Palmer reference. I've added the Ali Kemal Meram reference as well. --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes it supports; I added it myself :-). I don't like the idea of putting many information into lists, especially if the information is not sure, but let it be if you wish. Mukadderat (talk) 20:43, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

spread of Renaissance

Please read about renaissance in Hungary http://www.fondazione-delbianco.org/inglese/relaz00_01/mester.htm

And read about Hungary in wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Celebration1981 (talk • contribs) 17:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Please give a reference, which will deter future deletions/edit wars. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:57, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

What do you think about Hungarian inventions? were they significant? Hungary science section —Preceding unsigned comment added by Celebration1981 (talk • contribs) 20:50, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Weren't they? Shouldn't historical information be referenced and accurate, regardless of nationality? Unfortunately, scientific history isn't my forte. I'm sure you can find references to back your assertions. --Kansas Bear (talk) 21:00, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Yusuf IV

You mentioned a source for the genealogy in your edit summary, but didn't cite it in the article. Would you mind adding the citation? Or if it's as given in your edit summary, I can add it. Thanks. --Amble (talk) 20:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Re:Thanks

Thanks for the comment, but you've got the wrong person! I changed the stub templates on User:Kansas Bear/Leonine City, but I didn't deal with the coordinates - looks like you got them right by yourself :) BTW, that article looks ready to be transferred to article space. You think it's ready yet? Grutness...wha? 05:30, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Why to delete all my edits?

The article is o.k. up to my latest addition. Even Kansan Bear corrected the missing information before this edit. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Van_Resistance&oldid=269936650 But this revert is not only the latest but all my edits. --Atilim Borlu (talk) 05:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

No it's not. You added massive amounts of information, that is clearly NOT relevant to the article. Such types of massive additions have to be discussed on the talk page BEFORE being added to the article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:26, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Re: Van Resistance

Well, if the information is sourced and conforms to policy, I see no reason why it shouldn't exist. Then again, I'm not familiar with the subject matter, so I may not be the best person to ask. The edit warring seems to have stopped for now, but I've put the article on my watchlist so I can keep an eye on it. Best, –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 16:22, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

So instead, if someone can find information regarding troop movements during WWI and find some reference for it, then it can be added to the Van Resistance article. What about the Armenian Genocide? Shouldn't this same information be added there as well?? The fact of the matter is, what has been added is a side issue that has NO direct relevance to the article. That information should be placed under Ottoman troop movements during WWI or Caucasian Front(WWI). --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:14, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Um

If you're going to use tools, please do read their output:

wikitools 3RR — redirects 3RR

This tool will track down up to 50 of the most recent contributions of a particular user on a particular article within the last 10 days, then output the data in a 3rr-friendly format.

If a particular editor is reverting to a specific version of the page (or something similar to it), specific its revision ID as well to generate diff links to that version as well.

IMPORTANT: DO NOT SUBMIT A REPORT BY COPYING THIS SCRIPT'S OUTPUT IN FULL. This script is only meant for helping reporters in their reporting (as opposed to constant copypasting). YOU MUST TRIM THE REPORT TO ONLY INCLUDE ACTUAL REVERTS OR YOUR REPORT WILL LIKELY BE REJECTED! Article: (e.g. "Some article") User: (e.g. "SomeDude") Add diffs to revision id: (e.g. "11565684" — optional) Link to diff of warning (recommended) HTML output? (optional)

William M. Connolley (talk) 22:44, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Spam in Institute of Turkish Studies

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Institute of Turkish Studies, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Institute of Turkish Studies is blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person that would require a substantial rewrite in order to become an encyclopedia article.

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Institute of Turkish Studies, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 02:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Resisting sockpuppetry

Your name came up in a recent discussion. Please see User talk:Frania Wisniewska#Louise-Françoise de Bourbon. Please feel free to contribute comments there, or to help us edit the Bourbon and Orleans articles which are being repeatedly vandalized with the aid of sockpuppets. Thanks. FactStraight (talk) 10:00, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

No idea if it is our little buddy or a new one, but someone has begun doing the same as last year. He/she usually picks on one editor & reverses his work. Lately, my work has also been reversed. From the Bourbons, I have extended out to the Orléans family, then to the Condé & Conti, methodically trying to edit one after the other, but it is difficult because some little bug barges in, reverses & adds trivia insisting that it is more important than proven historical facts. By the time I go back & correct, hours have gone by & there is no time to take on another subject. Two articles get messed up a lot, which I do not bother touching: they are the last two on my list so I let them go for now. It is tiresome to see articles on French royalty written as Hollywood gossip magazines. In fact, real vandals are much easier to deal with, you just revert & they get blocked eventually.

On another subject: did you see the Figaro link I left a couple of weeks ago at you RE: Génocide arménien above on the stand taken by some Turkish intellectuals toward the Armenian genocide?

Thank you for your concern. Cordialement, Frania W. (talk) 23:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Frania, thank you very much for the Figaro link. I'll try to keep a better eye on the Bourbon/Orleans/Conde/Conti pages. --Kansas Bear (talk) 01:05, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

The Bourbon family is a big load! It would take constant watching to keep up & edit. I am so busy elsewhere that there are days I cannot get involved. In fact, editing an article helps take a break from occupations in real life, but fighting *bugs & buds* is a pain in the neck. Wishing you a nice day. Frania W. (talk) 14:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Kansas Bear: Please go to Gaston d'Orléans talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gaston,_Duke_of_Orl%C3%A9ans, where I left a msg after another mass revert by our little buddy. Frania W. (talk) 17:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

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Mount_Ararat

Some user is vandalizing the Mount Ararat page, deleting entire sections that were there from the beginnings of the page, related to Armenians and images of Ararat from Yerevan etc, and removing the words Armenian Genocide wherever he finds them. Please keep a watch also of this page. Thank you. He is also close to getting 3RR by his vandalism. 76.237.10.140 (talk) 18:10, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

A similar vandalism is going on in Mitanni page, where we provided more than a handful of cited academic sources, that are regarded as scholarly sources, and supported by a user like you, please check the Talk:Mitanni page. This other user appears to be an admin and agrees with me about the "Armeno-Aryan" origins of Mitanni. 76.237.10.140 (talk) 20:56, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process has started; to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months. If you are interested in running, please sign up here by 23:59 (UTC) on 13 March!
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 19:22, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Where we may be in disagreement

Kansas Bear: To much of my regret, there is a subject on which we may disagree: the name of Gaston d'Orléans. In France, he is always referred to as such and, when looking him up in a French dictionary, either Larousse or Petit Robert, one has to go at *Orléans*, where he is found the third one down after Louis, duc d'Orléans (1372-1407) and Charles d'Orléans (1391-1465), as the ducs d'Orléans are listed in chronological order.

However, our dear Gaston is Gaston de France, duc d'Orléans. The only two ducs d'Orléans who were *de France* at birth are him, Gaston de France, duc d'Orléans (L.XIII's brother) & his nephew, Philippe de France (Louis XIV's brother), who started the Orléans branch of the House of Bourbon. Louis XIV's surname is also *de France* as are the surnames for all the kings to follow him, ending with Charles X - the last king, Louis-Philippe, king of the French being Louis-Philippe d'Orléans.

Documents at the Archives nationales, have Gaston as Gaston de France, duc d'Orléans. The following should fall on page 786, a document concerning him, but there are more if you scroll up & down. (Bourbon is highlighted because I was looking for him under Gaston de Bourbon, which, theoretically speaking, should have been his last name as his father, Henri IV, was Henri de Bourbon. (ah, ces Frenchies!)

http://books.google.com/books?id=_hBD_QlmorIC&pg=PA786&lpg=PA786&dq=Gaston+de+Bourbon&source=bl&ots=AYUuhWjt9K&sig=CBsDzJnIffzCpKo5d1zjDOpRfv0&hl=en&ei=-zezSYPUM4qhtwfOl_TEBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

This being done in good humor, I sincerely hope it will not ring the end of our friendly cooperation! Cordialement vôtre, Frania W. (talk) 23:24, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Have I misread what you wrote at Gaston's talk page? It seems to me that you were saying that his name is not Gaston de France. If we are not in disagreement, then all's well! Frania W. (talk) 00:12, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

That was his name. I was referring to the way it was continually used in the edit here[12]. Do you think the current version of Gaston d'Orleans is alright? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh...my... God !!! That's what you were referring to !!! Then forget what I wrote. I get filled with TNT when I see 104's contributions. Have not read the whole version yet, after you reverted; was busy on other subjects. à bientôt! FW Frania W. (talk) 00:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

P.S. Just reread the article, and it looks fine.

Not a problem, Frania. I'm glad you're around to keep me on my toes. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

We'll see what kind of entertainment the new week brings; in the meantime, must get back to the real world. Bonne semaine! Frania W. (talk) 13:13, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Mehmed Talat "mediation"

K.B., I think you should stop making further contributions to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2009-03/Mehmed_Talat page. You are just wasting your time and effort there, as well as giving breathing-space to an editor whose sole aim is to deny the Armenian Genocide. Meowy 22:12, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Understood. I just abhor, historically ignorant individuals. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:16, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Armenians

This IP user "82.12.123.187", keeps changing the Armenians 8 million number to 10 million. Please revert his vandalisms, Thanks. 75.51.174.249 (talk) 22:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

All I can suggest is that you find a current and viable reference that states there are 8 million Armenians. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Right, actually, according to all the sources available, there are an estimated 10 Million (Some 9 Million, but NONE 8 million) Armenians worldwide. Considering I have plenty of reliable sources [13] (Here's an example), does that not make me correct? (talk) 17:36, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:22, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Your list of userspace vandals

I noticed that you listed an IP and User:Ibrahim4048 as vandals of "your page." I looked at the history of your userpage so that I could warn Ibrahim, but I could not find any edits by him. Could you just explain to me, please, why he is included in the list? Tealwisp (talk) 19:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

IF Ibrahim4048 can add the word "alleged" to an article and give NO reliable source(s) for this edit, then any UNWANTED rant by ANY individual on my talk page can and will be labeled as vandalism. Simply put, if that individual can change an article due to his or her personal opinion, then my intrepretation of what is posted on my talk page will receive the same treatment. Any questions? --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Considering the lack of courtesy and civility by this individual towards me and yourself, one would think that you would have something more productive to do with your time. Continued nationalistic rants, threats, and personal insults, by anyone else would have resulted in a permanent ban. If YOU have a problem with what I put on my page, then I encourage you to notify an ADMIN about my activities. In the meantime, take a long hard look and my contributions which range from French royal genealogy to single malt scotch and weigh that against Ibrahim4048's single purpose account. No matter the recourse I'll continue to back up historical facts with references regardless of threats from nationalistic twits or banishments. As my friend Frania says, "Bonne semaine"! --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

I meant no offense, I was just curious, as I thought the list of vandals was for your Userpage. Also, just so you know, he is providing sources. And, by the way, try to avoid calling any edit vandalism unless it is blatantly vandalism. Editors are far more amicable when everyone assumes good faith. Tealwisp (talk) 20:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

So denialists are now regarded as third party sources?? Interesting. Since Lewy contradicted Ibrahim4048's own moronic statement that Armenians were not forcible relocated in Constantinople or Smyrna!! Given time, it will be interesting to see if this "Middle East Forum" is proven to be a reputable source. The only thing that has happened here is Ibrahim4048 has set a dangerous presidence by being allowed to add in anything from a dubious site. Don't worry, I have MANY sources that speak quite candidly about Talat Pasha, and since all that is needed is some dubious webpage as a reference, the sky is the limit. :-) --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:28, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

User:Hucklbarry

Are you aware of the new user Huckelbarry has adopted an almost identical copy of your userpage? It gives the impression that either you two are the same person or that User:Huckelbarry wishes to have a ready made identity. Do you know this editor? Aramgar (talk) 15:22, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never heard of this user. Most likely an angry Turkish nationalist. Have you check his/her contributions? --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:47, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Judging from this person's contributions, I'd go with angry Turkish nationalist. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I suspected that it wasn't you. I think I have delt with this user before as an ip, a number of ips actually. Perhaps you should introduce yourself to him since you have so much in common. :) Regards, Aramgar (talk) 17:14, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

No doubt, we can share stories about Kansas!! LOL --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:10, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

really sorry, i really liked your profile. aramgar; yes im a copier, but what a shame are you. do u want to follow me to my home you rat--Huckelbarry (talk) 12:37, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

No harm, no foul. Just refrain from the name-calling. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:27, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Tealwisp

If you have got an opinion about Tealwisp's mediation activites on the Talat article, please present it here. here. Meowy 20:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

English Tower/Monument Tower

Hi,

I noticed you'd changed the edit of an IP editor on Malvinas Day. The tower, a gift from the UK on the occasion of the Centenary celebrations of Argentine independence, was originally know as the English Tower. After the Argentine defeat in the Falklands War, the Government changed the official name to the monument tower (though the locals still call it the English Tower). You might like to revert your change? Justin talk 10:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

It had appeared to be vandalism. Did I revert it back to another vandalized form?? If it's terribly incorrect feel free to change it. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 14:51, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

In this case it wasn't vandalism, it was correct. I thought I'd let you know before reverting to avoid any misunderstandings over vandalism. Now worries, I'll do it now. Justin talk 15:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

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This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Introduction of Crimes against humanity

Hello, I have seen that you recently reverted my edit regarding when Crimes against humanity were first introduced. However, I'd like to challenge your view of when this was first introduced and would like to point out this source with regards to Leopold's regime in the Congo http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/king-leopold-ii-congo

I'd like to highlight these bits of the text especially "Virtually no information about the true nature of King Leopold's Congo reached the outside world until the arrival there, in 1890, of an enterprising visitor named George Washington Williams." ... "In one of them, a letter to the U.S. Secretary of State, he used a phrase that was not commonly heard again until the Nuremberg trials more than fifty years later. Leopold II, Williams declared, was guilty of "crimes against humanity."

This also took part in international relations as Leopold felt the need to defend himself against other nations such as the UK who had accused him of committing crimes against humanity in around 1907.

Although I suspect the first usage of the term may even go back to the Boer Wars, I'm pretty sure that the massacres in the Congo had introduced the term before the year 1915.

Kind regards.Joebobby1985 (talk) 01:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

From the link you've given, it doesn't appear to be able to pass Wikipedia Verifiability or Reliable Sources. Does one of the listed sources from that link specifically mention Crimes against humanity in International Relations? I don't have anything against a sourced re-write(mentioning King Leopold), but a complete deletion is rather abrupt. I usual have to revert Armenian related issues from Turkish editors deletions. So my revertion was based on the reference supporting that part of the article. It in no way was the article meant to disprove the information you have presented. I appreciate the level-headed message and look forward to working with you. --Kansas Bear (talk) 04:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Hello, I understand your concerns and would like to provide a clearer source in this sense. (http://www.ushmm.org/conscience/analysis/details.php?content=1998-12-09&page=1&menupage=) This specifically states when the first atrocity of "Crimes against humanity in positive international law" was recognised and when the term was used. It gives its first example as the events in the Congo Free State. In the first source I mentioned in our discussion it's possible to come across this (Hochschild, Adam (1998). King Leopold's Ghost: A Story of Greed, Terror and Heroism in Colonial Africa. Boston: Houghton Mifflin.) the author who wrote the official letter to the U.S. Secretary of State.

It's also worth noting that Leopold was already dealing with accusations. While sadly, I don't have any access to the more restricted areas of those websites right now, I'd like to show you this (http://www.nytimes.com/books/98/09/20/specials/leopold.html) where it's evident that Leopold was in a tough situation where he had to deal with charges from all over the world. Especially against the accusations of the UK in which he gaves a response close to "but you killed more than I did".

As you mentioned a complete deletion is rather abrupt in all fairness. Would the sources I just provided be plausible for a re-write?

Kind regards.Joebobby1985 (talk) 11:09, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I ereased your pages in order to get an answer for erasing the Anti-Turkism tags

I ereased your pages in order to get an answer for erasing the Anti-Turkism tags —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saguamundi (talk • contribs) 14:46, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Mods take note, this is a confession of vandalism on an editor's talk page. --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Mr Bear, do you want to put this category up for deletion or shall I? --Folantin (talk) 15:34, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Please, call me KB. You can have the honor of placing that category for deletion. Thanks! --Kansas Bear (talk) 15:43, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Should be here now if I've got it right[14]. (Phew, I hate nominating for XfD!). --Folantin (talk) 16:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Looks good, sir! --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Your ignorance at its limits

The only thing you are doing on wikipedia is finding Turkey realted topics and adding Anti Turkish stuffs.Abbatai (talk) 11:12, 16 April 2009 (UTC)