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Earls of Desmond: numbering

Hi all, a few years back a debate was started (at Talk:Gerald FitzGerald, 15th Earl of Desmond) on the possibility of renumbering some of the Earls of Desmond according to the published sources available. It remained unresolved at the time.

I've gone through some of the public domain sources that have become available since and created a proposal (or three) on how the numbering might be changed. Anyone with an interest is welcome to discuss. See Talk:Earl_of_Desmond.

KerryMuso (talk) 16:50, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Irish Language

User Taoiseach has been populating county & provincial articles with a new Irish language section. He was having some problems with in-line citations. Users Rashers assisted him to overcome this difficulty. See County Antrim as an example. Anyway, the in-line citation goes to a doc that is only in the Irish language to prove its point. Is this acceptable for the English language wiki? Should we insist on a version that has been translated into English? On a slightly different point, and rather ironically, user Taoiseach has difficulty is applying the plural for Gaelscoil, favouring the non-existant Gaelscoils over Gaelscoileanna. Laurel Lodged (talk) 20:05, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Nothing at County Antrim. Edits at County Tipperary apply. RashersTierney (talk) 21:38, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The information is reasonable for inclusion in Wikipedia and there is no requirement that a source be in English. However it is not of any great interest except in an article specifically about schooling of Irish see WP:Relevance of content#Interactions between subjects. So it should be removed from the various individual articles. Dmcq (talk) 20:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I would say that it would need to be English text. But I also think that a statement of statistics which in itself has a finite duration, is usually read in the infobox. I’m not sure what context this particular stat gives to the article. A more balanced statistic could show the CSO number of Irish speakers from the last census compared to the county population, or even the breakdown of languages in the county. Or perhaps show the number of people in school attendance v Irish schools. DubhEire (talk) 20:34, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

The stuff would be better suited to the Irish language article, and can be presented in a nice wee table. Mabuska ^(talk) 20:43, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Removing correctly cited material because it is not in English would fly in the face of current practice. There is no requirement that all sources must be in English. It would be utterly daft to expect every reliable source relating to use of the Irish language to be written bilingually. RashersTierney (talk) 20:49, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Dmcq that the information is not very relevant to the subject. The content is good though and would be suitable to Education in the Republic of Ireland and Education in Northern Ireland. I would agree too that gaelscoilleanna is preferential.

There is no great issue with citing non-English souraces. However, English-language sources are preferred if they are of equal quality.

I've notified Taoiseach of this discussion. --RA (talk) 21:04, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) But unless I'm missing something, this doesn't seem to be a source at all. It's a Microsoft Word document with tables of figures but no indication of its provenance. Sorry, I now see that the link points to gaelscoileanna.ie, but it needs to be better attributed. I think this particular information would fit better into a section about education in the county than about the Irish language, in the lack of any other information about the language in Co. Antrim. ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 21:06, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd have no problem about this line being moved to the education sections. RashersTierney (talk) 21:17, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

There's nothing particular about education in the individual counties. About the least that could make something like this of interest at a county level is if there was a gaeltacht area there. As to education I'd have thought one might perhaps want the number of schools of various types in a county but not the exact breakdown of all the subjects they teach and how many students there are in each. Dmcq (talk) 10:37, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Since no education sections yet exist the material would seem to be fine where it is. The stats in question relate to the use of Irish in areas specifically outside the Gaeltacht areas. In fact, the present sections could be expanded to show the ebb/flow decline/revival of the language on a county by county basis. The historic census data specifically included the parameter, so reliable encyclopedic info. should be easy enough to collate. This from the CSO as just a random example. In any case, we've come a long way from the initial spurious objection. RashersTierney (talk) 13:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Respect please Rashers. Firstly it was raised here as a discussion point, not an objection. Secondly, other editors happen not to agree with your opinion on the question; that does not make their opinions spurious. Laurel Lodged (talk) 14:07, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Aisling

It seems to me that this is an article that could perhaps do with some help, but unfortunately I'm not in a position to provide that. Also, can anyone advise whether the claim in Róisín Dubh (song) that the song is an aisling is accurate? I would have thought not, but perhaps I´m misunderstanding the parameters of the genre. ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 02:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't see any such claim at your link, but these apparently reliable sources indicate, that in at least one iteration, it is, or at least 'deriving from that tradition'. RashersTierney (talk) 03:08, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

(ec) Thanks RT. I was actually wondering, after I posted this, if Mangan's version - which you can read here: http://www.bartleby.com/101/664.html - might have been behind this. It seems to me somewhat closer to the aisling genre, insofar as it seems more obviously dreamlike. But I don't think it is as well known as the original these days. That link, as you say, describes it as "deriving from the aisling tradition", rather than as being an aisling. My understanding is that the definitional aspect of an aisling is the appearance of the persona of Ireland to the poet in a dream, which isn't really what is happening in Róisín Dubh. Maybe I should hunt down Ó Buachalla's book... ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 03:19, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, link above to Róisín_Dubh_(song) wasn't working for some reason. This one does - on preview, anyway... ComhairleContaeThirnanOg (talk) 03:21, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Proposal for a meet-up - all very welcome!

... I get the good ideas.

I am reluctant to give money to Wikipedia, as I donate already loads of time and quite some photos to Wikipedia. But I would be interested in a Fundraising Dinner. It would be a great way to raise funds for Wikipedia and get the missus happy again.
A bit of a hotel has nowadays Wifi, so the addicts can sneak away without going really missing. And and advantage of keeping the night in a hotel is that you can drink (and don't have to drive) and the babysitting service that most of them have.

What do you guys think about that? Night of the Big Wind _talk 05:30, 10 January 2012 (UTC) As former hotelfoolemployee, I have some nice contacts with an hotel in Spanish Point, County Clare.

I'm generally on for a meet-up. There's a noticeboard thingy around here somewhere for them. The when and the where are usually the issues. Spanish Point sounds...bracing...but why not, if the price is right. RashersTierney (talk) 05:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'd would be up for a meet up as well. There were a number of very good ideas on the Wikimedia Ireland mailing list during the year. However (without physical contact) they tend to die a death. Spanish Point sounds good too, if others are on for it.

The meet-up noticeboard for Ireland is here, but WP Ireland is probably the better trafficed board. So let's build agreement here first. --RA (talk) 08:58, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Any suggestions for a month or even a date? Night of the Big Wind _talk 15:44, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

The sooner the better as far as I'm concerned. Circumstances don't allow me to commit too much into the future. RashersTierney (talk) 15:49, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

<extremely worried mode on>It sounds a bit that you have appointed me to Official Organizer of the Wikipedia Fundraiser Dinner and Ball 2012. True?<extremely worried mode off> Night of the Big Wind _talk 17:38, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

'If the cap fits...' Hope we get a bit more feedback here soon. RashersTierney (talk) 18:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd be able (as you know) to make it to a meet-up in Dublin but Clare is a bit iffy, and if at the weekend would mean giving up my gigs. However, keep me in the loop. If a more sizeable group than last time can take part, I'll do my best to get there. And I'll notify a few other Irish Wikipedians about this page. Hohenloh ⁺ 22:17, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I have never seriously suggested to keep the Fundraiser in Spanish Point, only that I have my contacts there. Far more reasonably from my point of view/living, will be Ennis or Limerick. At least they have a train station and a connection to a motorway. Spanish Point is extremely convenient for me, but difficult for almost everybody else

Anyone an idea how I can message everybody of this project then personally and manually spam their talkpages? Night of the Big Wind _talk 09:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

More serious: somewhere in Limerick and as dates 18 or 25 February? (11 February us unsuitable because of high room prices and romantic obligations towards the missus that most of you guys will have) Night of the Big Wind _talk 10:09, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Fine by me. RashersTierney (talk) 12:06, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd have an interest, but I wouldn't be able to make a weekend. I'm also Dublin based. DubhEire (talk) 10:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Dublin is handier for me too, but willing to travel if there is a major surge in interest for a 'provincial' venue. Weekday or weekend makes no great odds. RashersTierney (talk) 15:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

I meant to say that I couldn't do a weekend away, but could do any evening in Dublin. Sorry. DubhEire (talk) 19:08, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Discussion continues at Wikipedia:Meetup/Ireland#Possible meet-up early 2012. RashersTierney (talk) 01:51, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Website clone

Any opinions what to do next. I cleaned up this article as it was not encyclopaedic, but rather a version of the website. However, shortly afterwards it was reverted by an anonymous ip. If I revert again, I'm sure it will be reverted by the ip and I'd be accused of an edit war. I already made an entry in the talk page. Any ideas what to do now. DubhEire (talk) 20:24, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

What is this a clone of? It may be a copyvio. Do not be confused by mirrors of this wiki. ww2censor (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

sorry, I should say it appears to be an extension of the website with wording and structure that you would typically find about courses and enrolment. DubhEire (talk) 20:36, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

If the problem persists from IP-only or newly-registered accounts, the page could be semi-protected. The content before you cleaned it was clearly WP:SPAM. --RA (talk) 20:48, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

yep, that's the one. I must get more familiar with the correct terms again. Thank you. DubhEire (talk) 20:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Categorizing Irish politics by year

There has been a request at Articles for creation to create categories Category:1970s in Irish politics and so on. For all other countries which have a categorization scheme along these lines, the categories cover only a single year (eg Category:1997 in American politics) and are directly placed in Category:Years in American politics or its analogue, without "decades" categories. Is there a reason for Irish politics categories to have "decades" categories, or should we make the Irish categories conform to the usual scheme as well? Huon (talk) 02:21, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I could be talking out my hat here, but for smaller states, maybe a decade range would be more suitable. How many articles are expected to be in each year? Maybe it would be more suitable to have fuller categories by decade rather than sparser categories by year? Even looking through the American example, the contents of some of the categories are quite sparse.

(Maybe there is a worth in the question of moving the entire categorisation of these topics to decades rather than years as present?) --RA (talk) 09:10, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

America is big, Ireland is small. Are you suggesting there should be more categories than necessary? Ireland is unlikely to have even one election/major political event for every year in its history, never mind several each year for their own category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.96.203 (talk) 10:20, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Example, Category:1970s in Irish politics, which you mention, currently contains 18 articles, hardly enough at this time for a category for every year of that decade. Even if they were evenly spread there would only be one for each year and a second for only eight of the ten categories you are proposing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.96.203 (talk) 10:36, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually I'd suggest that some articles currently so categorized don't belong in any "Irish politics by year" category at all: The political magazines. Anyway, America isn't the only example; Category:Years in British politics and Category:Years in Canadian politics are organized along the same lines. Canada isn't that much bigger than Ireland if we go by population. Besides, I expect there won't be entries for some of the years (1971 seems to have no significant events, for example), while others will be more populated. And from 2007 onwards we do have categories for every single year, but we still have Category:2010s in Irish politics. That should be resolved one way or the other; we surely don't need both years and decades. Huon (talk) 13:18, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

You're suggesting then that there are less articles to be categorized but that there should be more categories? Category:2010s in film, Category:2010s in fiction, Category:2010s in science, Category:2010s in radio, Category:2010s in video gaming, Category:2010s in television, Category:2010s in sports... so what exactly is wrong with politics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.105.93 (talk) 17:07, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I was merely following the precedent of "years in politics" categorization. If it is determined that decades are sufficient for Irish politics, I won't object, but I'd still say that we don't need both decades and individual years. That seems unnecessarily redundant. How about decades up to the 1990s and individual years from 2000 onward? That's a rather arbitrary cut-off, but it would retain all the individual years we currently have. Huon (talk) 17:14, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

One liner heat

Got flagged for what I thought would ba an ok one liner. Any help with amendments as per rules on Cosgrave Property Group. One does forget that not everyone is Irish or related at least once removed. But I'm sure can be forgiven for thinking so. DubhEire (talk) 21:51, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

House of Prayer, Achill

I've nominated House of Prayer, Achill to be POV-checked, but the nomination, along with a multiple-issues tag, were deleted by User:FluffyRug, who seems to be a WP:SPA. I had previously reverted edits by this editor on the grounds that they were WP:POV, but this was reverted shortly afterwards. Not wishing to get into an edit war, I instead nominated the article for a POV check and noted issues to do with sources. These tags were subsequently removed by User:FluffyRug. What would you suggest?Autarch (talk) 20:49, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

This article has been hijacked by User:StPhilomena and User:FluffyRug (both SPAs). It now reads as if it was written by Christina Gallagher. I suggest taking it to WP:ANI. Snappy (talk) 22:05, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

There would appear to be strong NPOV issues since these contributors began (and a one-time user WiseOldChinaMan). Compare before and after. Also of concern may be StPhilomena's related contributions to Gerard McGinnity.

I don't know if ANI will be of any help. I don't know if there have been any "incidents" yet. Maybe more eyes on the article and a discussion with the two editors on the article talk page, pointing to the relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines, would lead to a a more positive solution? --RA (talk) 23:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Have just reverted edits by FluffyRug, who dropped back to make more edits.Autarch (talk) 23:38, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I think if you have discussed the edits on the article talk page, and alerted the editor on his or her user talk page, and if the editor fails to engage with you, then it's time to take the next step. Scolaire (talk) 23:54, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

How can an article about the House of Prayer, Achill be hijacked by someone providing more factual information about it which is backed-up by multiple relevant and independant publications. Information which is widely known! The article has been amended to comply with Wikipedia policy and yet you continue to take it down . FluffyRug (talk) 14:29, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Ian O'Doherty

This article has suffered some POV-pushing in the subjects' favour in the past - I've edited to take out some of that, but it probably needs more work. One issue - is Youtube an appropriate source for a WP:BLP? I would have thought that it fell foul of WP:BLPSPS.Autarch (talk) 18:49, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Marc Coleman

This article is short on sources (inlined ones, anyway) and has been subject to POV-pushing in the subjects' favour in the past.Autarch (talk) 18:50, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Irish school up for deletion

It seems that no one saw fit to notify the project that Template:Infobox Irish school is up for deletion for some reason. Discussion here. Please contribute. Fmph (talk) 08:58, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm disappointed in the lack of involved from those who setup the proposal to remove it and the fact that they have already removed it without any decision made. DubhEire (talk) 10:37, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that the Infobox Irish school is catered for in the Infobox School. I don't believe we would be losing anything in any school article. I am disappointed in the lack of involvement, but I can see where the enthusiasm came from. DubhEire (talk) 21:52, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, I once used the Irish template in pref. to the generic one because it had an additional parameter that was appropriate. Can't now think what it was, but it appears to have been rectified since. RashersTierney (talk) 22:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Cat re-name proposal.

The Category:Catholic sexual abuse scandal in Ireland has been listed for discussion on WP:CfD Laurel Lodged (talk) 11:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:LAU-1 authorities in the Republic of Ireland

Category:LAU-1 authorities in the Republic of Ireland, which is under the purview of this WikiProject, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 23:48, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Townland infobox

I've just created a new infobox that can be used on townland articles. It can be found at Template:Infobox Townlands. It could do with a fancier looking presentation but it gets the information out and suffices the infobox criteria geographical location articles require. Should it be added to the IMoS? Mabuska ^(talk) 13:12, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Ireland will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Ireland's history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 21:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Irish local government councils

Category:Irish local government councils, which is under the purview of this WikiProject, has been nominated for discussion. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 13:04, 2 February 2012 (UTC)