Wikipedia talk:In the news

Discussion on prevalence of athletes at RD

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Main Page § Recent deaths. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 21:18, 27 April 2021 (UTC)Template:Z48

India's Covid surge

FYI, some statistical background: While India leads the headlines, Mexico, with one-tenth the pop., has logged more Covid deaths – 215,547 vs. India's 201,187. Per capita, India has one of the lowest rates in the world, showing 17 deaths per 100K pop. vs. Mexico's 228. Thus, Mexico has 13 times the incidence of Covid fatalities as India.
— This is offered just for perspective, not to dismiss or belittle India's misery. – Sca (talk) 14:34, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

The ITNC thread you linked was closed with no consensus to post. Was there something more that was relevant to discuss here?—Bagumba (talk) 14:42, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

I know what happened to the nomination. I'm just offering background to users who might not be familiar with the relevant statistics. Is there something WRONG with that? Must we be so censorious? WP:AGF.– Sca (talk) 14:56, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

@Sca: It seemed to me to be a straightforward question. I was not involved at the ITNC thread. I neither deleted your post here, nor archived the discussion. I apologize if the question still came off as "censorious".—Bagumba (talk) 02:03, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why not, since it's keyed to a recent, but closed, ITN nomination. – Sca (talk) 15:08, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Broadened understanding. – Sca (talk) 15:30, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

If this isn't the place to discuss matters pertaining to ITN candidates then I'm not sure where is... I don't always agree with Sca's posts, but I see no issue with this one. There doesn't have to be drama associated with absolutely everything here 😉  — Amakuru (talk) 15:40, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

If editors !voted on the basis of the official figures reported at COVID-19 pandemic in India (and I guess they have to), they may not realise that the official figures are widely assumed to be wild under-estimates. The authorities count only those who die from COVID in a hospital. Those who die at home and go straight to the cremation sites are not counted. Yes there is a short section in the article about "Undercounting of cases and deaths". But the BBC today reports that daily figures could be as much as 20 times worse. Would editors !vote in the same way if they knew it was actually 20 times worse? Rant over. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:02, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Would you like me to add a meaningless strike-through of my meaningless comment above? You needn't read it. <non sarcastic fingers here> Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:26, 28 April 2021 (UTC) (p.s. I assumed they might not know as it's not in the article and they might not listen to the BBC)

Sorry I brought it up. I hate it when people, especially admins, haughtily refuse to discuss things in a collegial manner. Anyway, it does seem from this article that, as Marty noted, the official data for India may be seriously underreported – which militates against my original point. So let's just drop it. Have a nice day – if that's allowed anymore. 'Bye. – Sca (talk) 17:23, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

• Note: I have removed my comments from this thread, as they were distracting from the discussion unnecessarily. They were inappropriate and Sca and Martinevans were correct to be insulted by them; I had no right to make them. I apologize for doing so. I apologize directly to you Sca for being so dismissive of your concerns, and for belittling you. It was insulting of me to do so. I apologize directly to you Marinevans likewise for insulting them with my curt and sarcastic reply to their justified concerns here. I should not have done so, and again it was insulting for me to do so. I apologize to others who had to read this while it was on this page. There is no acceptable justification for my actions here. I have no expectation that either of you will accept my apology, because I have done nothing to deserve it, but I offer my unqualified apology because it is the right thing to do. I am sorry. --Jayron32 18:18, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

  Well, that's as full-throated an apology as I've seen pretty much anywhere. —valereee (talk) 18:39, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

  Hey Jayron, apology fully accepted. That is a model of collegiality. Don't worry, I really wasn't really insulted, only surprised, by your curtness. Thank you very much for saying that anyway. I'm not sure the world really knows yet how bad things are in India. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:52, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

• Although, it's fairly clear that India's fatalities have been significantly suppressed by the Government, in the same way as they've suppressed social media comments on the crisis, (i.e. [1] [2]. There was an interview on the BBC over the weekend where 10 deaths had appeared in a certain location though there had been 89 cremations. Black Kite (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment it was a long shot nom, it went about as I expected but was worth a shot. It's not just cases or deaths or some other metric -- I picked one to blurb -- but the WP:RS news was highlighting India for days as a country in crisis. Not just "more lockdowns" but police escorting oxygen tankers, hospital staff shortages, hospital bed shortages, basically a country in crisis. I may be biased by first hand accounts from one of my co-workers there, but looking at Google and Bing news, at the time I nominated it, the story was trending. I do wish we'd get past this "we don't post updates" mentality and the disaster porn. In the grand scheme of things the Iraqi hospital fire is completely irrelevant and has a limited impact on the country as a whole compared to the national crisis situation in India. I didn't expect much, I didn't get much, but to try is to hope right? --LaserLegs (talk) 20:41, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
• Comment – Jay, I'm amazed. Thank you. In the future I hope we can work together congenially at Wikipedia, a great public resource. All the best. – Sca (talk) 13:06, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

  I enjoy seeing happy endings. WaltCip-(talk) 22:48, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

  I'm in tears. The humanity. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 08:25, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

April 2021 central asia incident

How does one nominate, since the Israeli stampede made it? Bokoharamwatch (talk) 19:52, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Have a look at WP:ITNC. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 20:15, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

Video game awards and competitions versus The Oscars

There should be a renewed discussion on how ITNR is completely void of awards and competitions that some amass 100 million viewers every year, while decaying "established" awards are well below 10 million. I know that e-sports have been rejected many times, but I still have a hard time understanding that continued shunning, while Gaelic football and other minor not-really-woldwide competitions, together with what is now clear to be awards that are bleeding interest and viewers continue to be on ITNR. They are all commercial private events: former ones are on the rise (relevant to younger readers of wiki) and the latter ones are on the decline (increasingly irrelevant to same readers). 2601:602:9200:1310:4092:825C:31ED:3628 (talk) 04:02, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

If you have a specific tournament in mind, you should individually propose that for ITN/R. AllegedlyHuman (talk) 04:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

The last time this came up, I looked into a few eSports series. This was a few years ago, but the problems I found were: game turnover is fairly fast, and the "Super Bowl/World Cup" for a particular game is not clear. Some games build astonishingly large followings, but that following dwindles after a few years when new games, or even new versions of the same game, come out. For a particular game, there is often many tournaments, and no clear ITNR candidate. I could maybe support including a Star Craft and/or Counter Strike tournament for ITNR, because those seemed to be the most "stable" and had very large (1 million+ USD) prizes. For the more ephemeral games, the best route would be a blurb that highlights the notable points: "$X million in prizes in won in...", "The ... tournament receives a record X million viewers".130.233.213.199 (talk) 05:04, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

It's an important discussion to have, though please keep in mind the above comment: e-sports remain somewhat "fluid" in what can be referred to as an identifiable structure. Are you able to point on one "World Cup" which has been around long enough - and promises to remain for long enough - that we can consider it for ITN/R? I do take the point about the Oscars etc. If Wikipedia is to retain existing editors, but also attract younger ones from across the world, we need to be aware that the world has moved away from lavish set-pieces and into the e-sport arena. How we handle that depends on all of us working together, and not just assuming that e-sports have to be added because they're currently trendy, or indeed that they shouldn't be added because they're youthful. Let's find a way to identify how to work with any potential nomination. doktorb _words^deeds 08:29, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

List_of_esports_leagues_and_tournaments We do have an article on that. The problem is generally that competitions are either game specific - and so once the game is out of favour not suitable for recurring inclusion, you looking at max a 4-5 year cycle for a game at the top of its popularity and earning/prize money. Or they are organisations who operate lots of competitions, and have done for quite awhile, but no single result for ITNR because of the issue with the game play cycle. Its a lot better when it comes to awards, the Golden Joystick Awards have been running for nearly 40 years, and the BAFTA Game Awards have been running since 2003 (although they were included since 1998 when they were under the Entertainment award umbrella rather than an awards ceremony in their own right). Either of those are certainly ITNR (if they arnt already, I have not looked.) The former for public recognition, the latter for industry recognition. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

I would have suggested the BAFTA Game awards if not for the fact it's already hard enough to get a consensus on the BAFTA TV awards. On ITN/R, an order of preference for awards would be sports -> classical arts -> film -> TV and then nothing, so any gaming awards at all would probably not pass muster. Kingsif (talk) 11:17, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh I have no realistic hope that anything for Gaming will get on ITNR unless a good portion of the people who currently gatekeep it die off or are otherwise unable to contribute to any inclusion discussion. The idea that Badminton gets ITNR but the premiere awards in Gaming do not is absurd. This isnt to mean that Badminton shouldnt be on ITNR, but like most other areas of Wikipedia, selection is driven by editor attendence and preference rather than a reflection of what the more general readership want. Only in death does duty end (talk) 11:36, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

To be very fair, there's no "premier awards in Gaming" that I could find. The only place I've ever heard of BAFTA Game Awards is here, and to my eye it only has relevance because it's associated with a legacy media award show. I just looked at the most recent BATFA winners, and the categories are ripped straight from Cinema/TV award shows: "Best performer in a leading role", "Game of the year", "Best animation", etc. If games really are a discreet medium, separate from other performing arts, the BAFTA doesn't get that point across at all. Other awards evaluate games more "as they are", but are definitely smaller in reach and don't have the weight of an Academy behind them: Penny Arcade, Escapist, Steam Awards. It's a tough subject, and I don't think it's fair to lay it at the feet of "ITNR gatekeepers".130.233.213.199 (talk) 11:59, 6 May 2021 (UTC)