Talk:Mohamedou Ould Slahi

2012 edits

I'm going to be revising this article from the current sources up. Any help or input is welcome. Mnnlaxer (talk) 16:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

The first major issue is what to do with the Schmidt-Furlow report. The source should be used, and the topic "Allegations of torture" must stay, but the table of individual charges from S-F is too unwieldy for the article. IUt could be part of a new page or incorporated somewhere else. I prefer a summary of the individual charges in a narrative paragraph. There are other reports that need to be included in summary form as well : the Senate Armed Forces report and FBI IG report being the most prominent. Mnnlaxer (talk) 16:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

2013 Feb 11 Atlantic article

this is an article in the atlantic. Sorry dont have a moment to form it up so nicely. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/02/imagine-the-worst-possible-scenario-why-a-guantanamo-prosecutor-withdrew-from-the-case/273013/3/ ( Martin | talk • contribs 18:36, 12 February 2013 (UTC))

Thanks, I saw that and it will prompt me to work more on Slahi's article. It needs it. Mnnlaxer (talk) 19:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Memoir book launch

Slahi's memoirs, which he wrote in Gitmo after he relented to the torture and said he would cooperate, will be released by the end of this month. The article could be vastly improved by then and I'm going to do as much as I can. If anyone else wants to chip in and/or discuss on this Talk page, please speak up. Mnnlaxer (talk) 15:01, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

The best of intentions didn't help me. The memoir is now serialized at the Guardian which has several supporting articles as well. The book launches on January 20. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/16/-sp-guantanamo-diary-mohamedou-ould-slahi Mnnlaxer (talk) 03:41, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Germany Section

The section title is not ideal, as the material covers a time period rather than a location. I will wait for others to join the discussion on how best to outline the material and name the sections best.

Parked paragraph:

Slahi graduated from the university (renamed Gerhard Mercator University in 1994) with a degree in electrical engineering in 1995. The next year, he sought an unlimited visa and work permit to remain in Germany as well as landed immigrant status in Canada.[ref name="habeas opinion"] (p. 12) Slahi obtained landed immigrant status in Canada in September 1998.[ref name=wsjcsrt /]

I can't find a source for the degree in 1995 and the info on Canada is not very relevant. Mnnlaxer (talk) 03:38, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Allegation of torture Section

This section needs the most work. The Schmidt-Furlow Report, was a preliminary internal Army investigation. It has been superseded by the Senate Armed Forces Committee report. There are also several reports by human rights groups that document Slahi's case. But, this is good information. It can live here until someone wants to use it. Mnnlaxer (talk) 04:39, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

date	page number	notes
July 3, 2003	21	Interrogators submit a request for a "Special Interrogation Plan" for Slahi to the Office of the Secretary of Defense. The request was approved on August 3, 2003. According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report "Interrogation logs indicate that the techniques were never implemented because the subject of the second special interrogation plan began to cooperate prior to the approval."
July 17, 2003	24	The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated: "...a masked interrogator was used to interrogate the subject of the second special interrogation. The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated the masked interrogator told Slahi: "that he had a dream about the subject of the second special interrogation dying." "Specifically he told the subject ... that in the dream he 'saw four detainees that were chained together at the feet. They dug a hole that was six-feet long, six-feet deep, and four-feet wide.'" "Then he observed the detainees throw a plain, pine casket with the detainee’s identification number painted in orange lowered into the ground." "...his dream meant that [Slahi] was never going to leave GTMO unless he started to talk, that he would indeed die here from old age and be buried on 'Christian… sovereign American soil.'" The Schmidt-Furlow Report concluded that the "... dream story does not rise to the level of a threat."
July 20, 2003	24-25	The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated the masked interrogator told Slahi that his family was “incarcerated.”
August 2, 2003	26	The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated: "...the Special Team Chief, while impersonating a USN Captain from the White House, told the subject ... that he had a letter indicating that the subject’s family had been captured by the United States and that they were in danger. The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated that the letter didn't contain an explicit threat. The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated: "...the Special Team Chief indicated that prior to the 'threat' to detainee the subject of the second special interrogation he cleared the proposal and the letter with the senior judge advocate who approved the technique as a 'deception.'" However, during their first interview with the Senior Judge Advocate he claimed no recollection of the letter. During their second interview with the Senior Judge Advocate he chose to exercise his right to protect himself from self-incrimination. "The Special Team Chief also indicated that both JIG Chiefs in charge during the promulgation of the Special Interrogation Plan12 were also aware of the threat letter." "The first JIG Chief has retired and was unwilling to cooperate with this investigation." "The second JIG Chief indicated under oath that he was unaware of the interrogation events discussed above." "Finally, the Commander (Geoffrey Miller) denies any knowledge of the existence of the threat or the letter. He does not recall ever discussing the issue of threats with the interrogators. He is aware that this is a prohibited practice and would not have permitted it if he had been aware of the plan."
August 2, 2003	25	The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated that Slahi was visited by a "messenger", with a "special message" that stated: “Interrogator’s colleagues are sick of hearing the same lies over and over and are seriously considering washing their hands of him. Once they do so, he will disappear and never be heard from again. Interrogator assured detainee again to use his imagination to think of the worst possible scenario he could end up in. He told Detainee that beatings and physical pain are not the worst thing in the world. After all, after being beaten for a while, humans tend to disconnect the mind from the body and make it through. However, there are worse things than physical pain. Interrogator assured Detainee that, eventually, he will talk, because everyone does. But until then, he will very soon disappear down a very dark hole. His very existence will become erased. His electronic files will be deleted from the computer, his paper files will be packed up and filed away, and his existence will be forgotten by all. No one will know what happened to him and, eventually, no one will care.”
Summer 2003	22	The Schmidt-Furlow Report confirmed Slahi's claim that he was subjected to extremes of heat and cold. The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated: "This technique was officially permitted under 16 Apr 03 SECDEF Memorandum – Environmental Manipulation." The Schmidt-Furlow Report stated: "There is no evidence in the medical records of the subject of the second special interrogation being treated for hypothermia or any other condition related to extreme exposure."
Summer 2003	22-23	According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "The subject of the second special interrogation alleges that female military interrogators removed their BDU tops and rubbed themselves against the detainee, fondled his genitalia, and made lewd sexual comments, noises, and gestures." According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "The interrogation logs for the subject of the second special interrogation indicate that on a number of occasions female interrogators used their status as females to distract the subject of the second special interrogation during the interrogation but there is nothing to corroborate the allegation of the subject of the second special interrogation."
August 2003	23	According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "The subject of the second Special Interrogation Plan alleges that in late summer of 2003 he was hit by guards and an interrogator 'very hard' and 'with all their strength' he was hit 'all over.'" According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "The interrogation logs contain no reference to any physical violence against the subject of the second Special Interrogation Plan. His medical records indicate that in August 2003 the subject of the second special interrogation reported 'rib contusions' from an altercation with MPs when moved between camps. During this examination the physician also noted an 'edema of the lower lip' and a 'small laceration' on his head. There are no other medical entries of any other physical injuries. There are no indications of swelling or contusions to support a conclusion that the subject of the second special interrogation was hit 'very hard all over.'"
August 2, 2003	23	According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "The Special Team Chief impersonated a USN Captain assigned to the White House during interrogation of the subject of the second special interrogation. According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report: "...in an effort to convince the subject of the second special interrogation that he needed to cooperate ... presented a letter to the subject ... which indicated that ... in conjunction with authorities from the country of origin ... would interrogate the mother of the subject ... Plan. The letter further indicated that if his mother was uncooperative she would be detained and transferred to U.S. custody at GTMO for long term detention." According to the Wall Street Journal, interrogators stressed to Slahi how dangerous it would be for Slahi's mother to be the only female captive in Guantanamo. According to the Schmidt-Furlow Report, Major General Geoffrey Miller confirmed he was aware of the impersonation plan, but was unaware of the letter, or the threats to Slahi's mother.

Canadian appeal Section

This section is not relevant enough for the article. It is also based on one source, moved to the end for reference. Mnnlaxer (talk) 04:47, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

Appeal for the release of evidence through the Canadian Justice System Mohamedou Slahi and Ahcene Zemiri appealed through the Canadian Justice system for the release of classified documents about them, as both were former Canadian residents. Both men had been interviewed by Canadian security officials before leaving Canada for Afghanistan. Their lawyers argued that the notes from the Canadian interviews would have been relied on by the United States when its agents built their own dossiers against the two men. The attorneys requested the Canadian evidence in order to make the case for the men's freedom in the US justice system.

In February 2009 Justice Edmond Blanchard ruled that since the men were not Canadian citizens and their connection to Canada was "tenuous", the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms did not apply to them. Slahi is married to a Canadian, and had once been granted Permanent Resident status in Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada has ruled in another case that the Canadian government should publish classified documents which the Americans had shared about the Canadian citizen Omar Khadr, who was released from Guantanamo and returned to Canada in 2012.

Nathan Whitling, one of the detainees' Canadian lawyers, predicted that their United States habeas corpus cases will be heard before a planned appeal of Blanchard's ruling takes place.

"Gitmo detainees lose bid to access Canadian intelligence information". CBC News. Canadian Press. February 16, 2009. Retrieved August 12, 2014.

Lead Section

The lead is too long right now. But I am going to concentrate on getting the article body finished first. Use this space to discuss what should remain in the lead. Mnnlaxer (talk) 22:32, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

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Lede too long; disorder

The lede section remains too long, despite this being identified as an issue in 2015. I found the order very hard to follow with the torture and Habeas Corpus case being broken out into separate sections. There is no discussion of why the District Court never held any hearings after the Court of Appeals decision in 2010. Also there's no clear connection to the Joint Review Task Force​ section which discusses what happened to him between 2010 and his release in 2016. Mztourist (talk) 04:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

"turned himself in"

I have removed from the lead the claim that Salahi turned himself in on Mauritanian authorities, along with claims that the subsequent questioning related to the millennial plot. Both of these points are not supported by the source.

Due to the possible significance of such an act, I wanted to bring attention to this in case there is other sourcing that was not correctly added, alternatively this may be an attempt at vandalism to alter the narrative.

I'd also note that this detail is not included anywhere else in the article.

In any case, this is a significant detail so its inclusion or omission should be taken very seriously.