Talk:Goulburn

Railway

Railway opened to Goulburn before 1886! —the preceding unsigned comment is by Syd1435 (talk • contribs) 13:37, 24 November 2004 (UTC+11 hours )

Citing of sources required

There is no mention that Goulburn is part of the the traditional land of the Gundungara people. It SHOULD say that.

The original version of this article included the text: There is little information available on the local Aborigines. However it is clear that there was, in general, intense and violent conflict over European settlement of the south of NSW until the 1840s and 1850s. On the shore of Lake George, to the south, a group of whites shot a entire tribe and left the skeletons to bleach in the sun. Since that edit the paragraph has been wikified but otherwise unchallenged. I do not think it should remain without sources.--A Y Arktos 07:50, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to add some balance to this section. Grahamec 03:52, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

• The 2nd para of the history section includes the assertion "European settlers, with the assistance of the police, prevented Aboriginals, sometimes violently, from hunting their livestock, in accordance with British law, although there is little evidence of deliberate killings of the indigenous population." Can we please have a source for this assertion - it is not a matter of white armband or black armband points of view or history theories, it is a matter of Wikipedia:verifiability. For guidance, see for example, the section Wikipedia:Guidelines for controversial articles#Attribute facts. My concern is not to deny any events but to get them right, and if we can't get them right we must not make them up. The way to assure ourselves that we have got it right is to follow the various content policies including Wikipedia:No original research:

Wikipedia is not the place for original research. Citing sources and avoiding original research are inextricably linked: the only way to demonstrate that you are not doing original research is to cite reliable sources which provide information that is directly related to the topic of the article, and to adhere to what those sources say.

Wikipedia:No original research is one of three content policies. The other two are Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Verifiability. The policies are complementary, jointly determining the type and quality of material that is acceptable in the main namespace. They should therefore not be interpreted in isolation from each other, and editors should try to familiarize themselves with all three.

I have commented out the assertion until the source is cited. I aplogise for picking on this particular fact, I was well aware that the naming section had been wrong too and had failed to either rectify it or pick up on it. However, since settlement and indigenous conflict is such a controversial topic it needs special care.--A Y Arktos\^talk 21:49, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

• I don't 'not accept' the assertion (or otherwise), I am seeking a reliable source that in the southern tablelands "European settlers, with the assistance of the police, prevented Aboriginals, sometimes violently, from hunting their livestock, in accordance with British law, although there is little evidence of deliberate killings of the indigenous population." It is not appropriate to apply researched history from other areas of Australia to this area, or to any other specific area without references that substantiate that the experience was local. As per above quote from the policy, we need to cite reliable sources which provide information that is directly related to the topic of the article, and to adhere to what those sources say. Key words here include directly related. The general article on Indigenous Australians can deal with the more general issues of settlement and displacement, this article needs to deal witht he specific Goulburn experience. If necessary, rather than delete and leave blank, you can say something like, elsewhere in New South Wales or whatever, xyz was the experience, (cite source) however, there are no references discussing the experience in the southern tablelands and Goulburn.--A Y Arktos\^talk 00:51, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

comment moved from article

Re "there is no conflict recorded from this period" I dont think this should be included. My dad was born in Goulburn in 1886 (older father) and my family were there from 1830 and there was tremendous deeds done against the Indigenous people in that area as in most areas. That these arent recorded is how it is as who would record it. By deleting this phrase no insult is paid to the Indigneous people. The phrase is a 'whitewashing' one. Using it feeds into the coverup of genocide.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.54.9.106 (talk • contribs) 00:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC+10 hours)

• I understand, but can you help with reliable sources. It is not the intention to cover up killings, deaths, or genocide, or to whitewash - the intention is to have reliable sources to substantiate assertions. We don't want to be held up to ridicule as per William deane and Keith Windschuttle, where the gist of what Deane was saying was lost because he hadn't got it quite right --A Y Arktos\^talk 22:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

George Augustus Robinson

That a 'Protector of Aboriginals' (George Augustus Robinson) was appointed for an area that included the Monaro and Southern Tablelands and the Canberra and Yass regions, as well as other areas to the south indicates there was some need that existed that his appointment was addressing.

Robinson's papers are found at 'George Augustus Robinson Papers', re his journey through these areas on appointment in 1844, CY Reel 442, A 7040 part 2 (Database no.38) State Library of NSW.

It would be handy to attach here a brief outline of Robinson's success at saving the Tasmanian Indigneous people prior to him taking on his next appointment in the area noted above. People get another appointment when their previous one has been successful - dont they. There are different ways of going about things. Once people on the dole were listed as unemployed if they worked less than 16 hrs week. Now only those who work less than an hour week are unemployed but if you do an approved activity (go for a Job Network interview that atkes an hour) you are working. Little wonder the jobless rate has fallen. Giving out blankets is helping the Aboriginal people - isnt it?

I was just reading the returns by the various Protectors of Aboriginals for the districts. The Aboriginal people would be encouraged to come in to a central point, their numbers tallied then they would be given a blanket each. Each year their numbers lessened through diseases such as smallpox.

In 'The Atlas' newspaper online at 'Australian Newspapers NSW' in whatever era required, there will be references to killings (but not having happened for at least 10 years or in the never never), for this area. Also in other early Australian newspapers that can be accessed from The Atlas site, or via the Ferguson Collection online. The Ferguson Collection can be found under 'The Australian Cooperative Digitization Project' on google. Another source perhaps are the NSW Supreme Court Historical Records that are online for the 1830 era. There is a specific Aboriginal section in those records. The court transcrips can be read.

I've deleted some unbalanced comments Grahamec 05:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

"Particularly long main street"

What is its length? Nurg 09:03, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Origin of name

I have removed the reference to Sir Walter Stevenson and substituted the GEOGRAPHICAL NAMES REGISTER EXTRACT Grahamec 07:07, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

NSW cities

The New South Wales cities template is on both the shire and the town site. Is this a problem? Grahamec 00:37, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Dead link

Footnote 3 ("Goulburn may soon use Recycled water") is now dead, and should be fixed or removed. 86.143.52.96 16:48, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Updated text to reflect more current information and a new citation. - Fordan (talk) 03:48, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Outdated section

The "Climate" section is entirely made up of outdated and "future" plans. Recent rains have rendered such plans obsolete.

DermottBanana (talk) 05:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)DermottBanana

Toilets

Do we really need a shot of the toilets at St Brigids?

Agamemnone (talk) 09:11, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Buildings in Goulburn

Do we need this many photos of buildings in Goulburn? Are all these buildings significant? If so then perhaps the creation of a new article for Buildings in Goulburn. CamV8 (talk) 01:07, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Requested move 3 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 06:40, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

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Goulburn, New South Wales → Goulburn – This is the only place name, no need to clarify. 219.79.181.149 (talk) 06:19, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

• Support, no need to disambiguate.--Grahame (talk) 23:55, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose, because all towns are normal introduced as "Town, State". It is required for both recognisability and consistency. This town may be unusual in being a particularly large and famous non-capital city populated location, but to a general audience, Goulburn is the name of foreign politician who never even visited, after whom a large number of things were named, including the confusingly unrelated Goulburn Valley and Goulburn County. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:30, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose As per WP:PRECISE it is acceptable to disambiguate a geographic name when not required if it produces a more natural title. In general, I think it is better if small towns/suburbs/localities have a geographic identifier such as the larger city or state in which they are located. Accordingly, I oppose this move. Shadow007 (talk) 06:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Per the above reasons. peterl (talk) 05:50, 10 March 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 4 May 2022

Goulburn, New South Wales → Goulburn – WP:COMMONNAME, in line with other Australian regional cities; Albury, Cooma, Dubbo, Wagga Wagga etc. Airtone22 (talk) 02:14, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Steel1943 (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

@Airtone22: This is not an uncontroversial request given the previous failed move proposal at Talk:Goulburn, New South Wales#Requested move 3 March 2018. A new move discussion would be needed in this case. DanCherek (talk) 02:24, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

@Airtone22 and DanCherek: Courtesy pings. Steel1943 (talk) 06:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

• Support. No need whatoever to add the state. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:58, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Same as previous. Helps no reader. Reduces recognisability. Creates confusion with Goulburn being a politician who never even visited. It’s standard in Australia for places to use comma state naming, except for the large amount of surreptitious sneaky moves that occurred in the past. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:08, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support. No need for disambiguation. Henry Goulburn is a forgotten politician and is easily distinguishable by first name.--Grahame (talk) 08:55, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
• Support, clear WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, rename per WP:NCAUST. As to the 'large amount of surreptitious sneaky moves that occurred", there was a similar RM in the last 12 months for Brewarrina, which resulted in a consensus to move. Colonqu (talk) 04:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)