Talk:Ukraine

Change "occupied/annexed territories" to "occupied/disputed territories"

Please change the image label "Location of Ukraine (green) Occupied/annexed territories prior to the 2022 Russian invasion (light green)" to "Location of Ukraine (green) Occupied/disputed territories prior to the 2022 Russian invasion (light green)" as it's the conventional way . PadFoot2008 (talk) 16:57, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

It's pretty evident that the territories are disputed, there isn't a need to respell that out. CMD (talk) 03:01, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Yeah so correct it. PadFoot2008 (talk) 17:49, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Whether they are "occupied" or have been "annexed" is the dispute, using occupied/annexed makes that clear. A simple "disputed" would also be acceptable. The form "occupied/disputed" seems weird to me. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 00:39, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

"occupied/disputed" is either redundant or suggests Ukraine doesn't dispute the occupied territories. Neither is great. I do prefer "occupied/annexed" to a plain disputed, another alternative is the simpler "uncontrolled territories". CMD (talk) 01:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 May 2022

Include history and presidency of Volodymyr Zelenskyy 92.0.43.10 (talk) 18:15, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 18:23, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 May 2022 (2)

Add period from 2017 to 2022 including history and presidency of Volodymyr Zelenskyy 92.0.43.10 (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

The history section here is already too long - perhaps you could add the info to History of Ukraine? Also it would be great if you could suggest changes to shorten the history section. Chidgk1 (talk) 18:50, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Still looking for someone to shorten the history section

As discussed earlier it is three-quarters the size of the main article, whereas I think it should be less than half.

Anyone needs a challenge and has time? Chidgk1 (talk) 19:11, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 June 2022

Since the map keeps getting switch between the Globe and Europe view as it was done yesterday, can somebody add this? A switcher between the two so this can stop happening. --Aaron106 (talk) 02:15, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

 Done. Aidan9382 _(talk) 14:20, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

@Aidan9382: Thank you, this map is probably more better to use in Globe rather than the other one people were using. Do you think you could replace it with this one? --Aaron106 (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Also  Done. Looks more inline with the globes of other country pages. Thanks for suggesting these! Aidan9382 _(talk) 16:14, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Location map in the infobox

The map of Ukraine within Europe shows the separatist entities in the east in a lighter shade of green. The globe map does not. Both are viewable with the radio buttons though the globe view is shown by default.

Is there a consensus on whether these separatist entities should be shown on the map in the infobox? I can't be bothered to go through the history to find out how long the separatist entities have been shown on either of these maps, but obviously they should be consistent.

If it needs to be restored here is the version of the "map of Ukraine within Europe" without the separatist entities highlight: File:Europe-Ukraine_(disputed_territory).svg.

Thanks,

Rob984 (talk) 17:31, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

There is a long-standing practice that areas out of a state's control should be depicted differently on introductory maps, to not give the impression the powers of a state extend somewhere they do not. This is for various types of a lack of control, be it another state (eg. Crimea, bits of Kashmir) or a separatist body (eg. DPR, TRNC). CMD (talk) 02:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Ongoing armed conflicts this seems not to be the case, see Syria, Libya and Yemen. Though countries with long-standing ceasefires such as Moldova and Azerbaijan have rebel-held areas indicated. I don't know if there was ever a long-term ceasefire in Ukraine? Rob984 (talk) 22:58, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Corruption

Mellk, there is an updated perceptions index in the body of the article (second sentence of Ukraine#Economy). The lead summarizes the body. That goes for the citations, too. The version you reverted to also uses Transparency International's corruption perceptions index but it is one that's two years old. They use the verb "rank" in both years. It's a synonym for "rate". Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 22:44, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Sure, it can be updated, but using the wording that it was rated the second-most corrupt country (based on CPI data) is highly misleading, because the CPI does not measure corruption (which is not possible), it measures perceived corruption in the public sector. Also, why is this not under a new section? Mellk (talk) 22:51, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Who said anything about measuring corruption? The perceptions of the degree of corruption — as seen by business people and country analysts — are scored on a scale of 0–100, from 0 for absolutely corrupt to 100 for absolutely clean of corruption. Transparency International then ranks the countries 1–180th according to the number of points scored, 1 indicating the country with the highest score (i.e., the lowest perceived corruption), 180 indicating the country with the lowest score (i.e., the highest perceived corruption). The wording you used (rated 120th out of 180 in the Corruption Perceptions Index for 2021, the second-lowest result in Europe after Russia) is unclear. It's actually the second lowest score for "clean of corruption" and the second highest perceived corruption ranking in Europe. "Second worst" fits both, second worst score on the 0-100 scale as well as second worst ranking in Europe on the 1-180 country list. Space4Time3Continuum2x (talk) 14:10, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

OK, if you think that wording can be improved there, feel free to improve. As for the lead, you changed the wording to, was rated the second-most corrupt country in Europe.[1] This is not supported. Simple. Maybe it might be better to include the ranking in the CPI instead in the lead, I don't have an opinion on this. Mellk (talk) 17:44, 7 June 2022 (UTC)