Talk:Europe

Europe a "peninsula"

How is Europe a peninsula? Is Australia an island? Is Africa a peninsula because it's surrounded on 3 sides by water? Or cand you call America an island? Europe is a continent from a geographical point of wiew. It might be a good idea to remove the "peninsula part". 46.97.177.247 (talk) 09:54, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Europe is a peninsula, Australia is an Island, Africa is a peninsula, The Americas is an island, and Europe is not a real continent, it's an arbitary separation. Glad to be of help Jamesman666 (talk) 14:55, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Indeed, Africa is a continent and Eurasia is a large peninsula that is part of it. Largoplazo (talk) 15:05, 11 December 2022 (UTC)

Afro-Eurasia is one landmass Jamesman666 (talk) 23:46, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

A better map of modern Europe would add a lot to this page

I find the map of modern Europe that the page contains incredibly frustrating to use. I think I am speaking for the majority of users that when looking at a map of modern-day Europe one of the first things, the most basic things, I'd expect to see are the country borders clearly delineated (along with major cities, major rivers, too).

But the political boundaries are given short shrift at the benefit of information that seem clearly secondary (like highways)

If there is too much information to include in one map (which is easy to believe) then how about adding one more map, the sort of typical High-School textook type with the nations of Europe shown in different colors (again, like several of the historic maps)

Instead, on this map, which I'm sure someone thinks is very clever, they are essentially impossible to make out. The hard to see purple lines that are used to outline countries are very difficult to differentiate from the only slightly narrower purple lines used to define local state boundaries.

The final impression is that it's just one big Europe with France sort of indistinctly "around here, roughly" but seamlessly blending into Belgium "over there".

And using this map it is virtually impossible to see the shape of France, Germany or any other nation at a glance, and what counties it borders, and other things like that.

It would be nice if someone worked to put a more basic politcal map of Europe into this article, so that it would be useful to, for example, showing to a 10 year old to discuss where all the World Cup teams are from. As it stands: it completely fails at that.

The modern map that fails to make political boundaries visible (perhaps an ideologically driven decision? It is here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Map_of_populous_Europe_%28physical%2C_political%2C_population%29_with_legend.jpg/1024px-Map_of_populous_Europe_%28physical%2C_political%2C_population%29_with_legend.jpg

ZeroXero (talk) 00:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Peninsula?

Europa has quite a big landborder with Asia. Unlike most peninsulas, there is no clear boundary between it and the landmass it's connected to. Why is Europe called a peninsula in this article instead of a subcontinent, or just a region in Eurasia? Wikifan153 (talk) 16:52, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

This isn't the first time I've seen Europe described as a peninsula, and there is a source cited (https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/europe-human-geography), although I've been dubious about that classification for the same reasons you are. (It would be a more reasonable description IMO if the border of Europe ran from the Azov to the White Sea; I've seen historic maps that do that, using I think a combination of rivers to mark the boundary, but that's not the modern definition). The Peninsula article also contradicts that claim by saying that the Arabian Peninsula is the largest peninsula. Is there a definitive definition or list of peninsulas that we can consult? Failing that, would it be better to say that Europe "has been described as" a peninsula, rather than that it is one? 14:36, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

If always find this tricky. When does something ceases to be an island (is the entire Eurasian continent an island), how narrow does an isthmus have to be to allow for a peninsula - and can we truly call the thousands of kilometers along the Ural narrow?? In fact it would almost make more sense to call South America a peninsula of North America connected through rather narrow Central America isthmus (but that never seems to be suggested for some reason). The given source national geographic just states, without any explanation or source, that Europe is a peninsula. As sources go I find such an unsourced, unexplained statement rather thin (even if from a respectable popular scientific journal). So in any case I think some additional sourcing would be needed. Arnoutf (talk) 21:09, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:51, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Add Cyprus on the map

Though Cyprus is included as a European state, it is absent (coloured grey rather than Green) on the map of Europe. Can a tech-savvy editor correct this? Politis (talk) 23:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

The map is based on traditional geography, not geopolitics, hence why only half of Russia is green etc. CMD (talk) 01:38, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Can you expand with links to justify this one? ___ Politis (talk) 22:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Different meanings of the work Europe are covered in the article. CMD (talk) 02:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

I think the article covers a number of possibilities and it justifies both your and my perception. It opens with,

"Europe is a large peninsula conventionally considered a continent in its own right because of its great physical size and the weight of its history and traditions".

According to the first part of the introduction, as a peninsula Cyprus, Malta etc are indeed excluded from Europe. But according to the second part, as a place of 'history and traditions', they are included in Europe. The more recent definition of Europe - and the article clearly tracks its shifting borders - includes Cyprus and Malta, as highlighted in the EU report for their membership (I do not have the report at hand just now). Politis (talk) 12:07, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

The Cyprus topic has nothing to do with being an island like Malta, it has to do with the geographic borders that existed most recently, before geographers moved on from the concept. There is no shifting border that included Cyprus, Cyprus became included due to the cultural conception of Europe, not the geographical one (culture obviously not lending itself to mapping in the same way). The way the maps in the article are set up is quite good at showing these, noting the geography as the base, but including places like Cyprus and Armenia in lists and labels. CMD (talk) 12:26, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

The maps are not that clear cut. In the map 'Köppen-Geiger climate classification map for Europe', Turkey in Europe is excluded from Europe. In the regional map Europe#/media/File:Grossgliederung Europas-en.svg, Cyprus is included as part of, Southeast Europe while Turkey in Europe is excluded. ASO. Malta is explained as, "Malta was considered an island of North-western Africa for centuries, but now it is considered to be part of Europe as well". But it is now mapped mostly as part of Europe. There is clear inconsistency. I have no objection to your definition but could you edit the article so as to have greater consistence? Just a thought. Politis (talk) 12:46, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

You're not wrong about the Köppen map, that's a weird one. The Grossgliederung Europas map though appears to be from a specific organisation, and so reflects that viewpoint. That seems reasonable in concept, although I don't know if that particular viewpoint is more due or not than other potential cultural divides. These are all vague human concepts, so even if we mostly describe the most common geographical boundaries, there will be some variation in the maps people produce. CMD (talk) 12:59, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

No religions in introduction?

The introductory paragraphs do a good job of synthetising the history of Europe, but they don't mention anything about religion, and especially of the shift from Paganism to Christianity and, in more recent times, the spread of more secular worldviews. Christianity in particular, while born in Asia, has had a pivotal importance in European history and still is extremely relevant on a cultural level. 79.30.92.106 (talk) 01:20, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Total Area of Europe is less than total area of Russia

Why is the measure of total area of Europe indicated to be less than total area of Russia ? If there is a mention of the area of Europe excluding the area of Russia that is not easily apparent. Solo-man (talk) 22:27, 6 March 2023 (UTC)