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::I agree that this section needs to be removed. [[User:Entropy1963|Entropy1963]] ([[User talk:Entropy1963|talk]]) 19:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
::I agree that this section needs to be removed. [[User:Entropy1963|Entropy1963]] ([[User talk:Entropy1963|talk]]) 19:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
:::Update: just after posting my comment, I received a message from user Tryptofish that on this page [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Genetically modified organisms|https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Genetically_modified_organisms]] a huge discussion already exists related to this wording I mentioned in my post.
:::Only for this reason this section needs to be removed from the article about Denialism for denying, or challenging, ambiguous concepts is not Denialism but a healthy standpoint.
:::I will remove it myself tomorrow believing that it's better to discuss here whether to include this section than to remove it. [[User:Entropy1963|Entropy1963]] ([[User talk:Entropy1963|talk]]) 06:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)


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Revision as of 06:36, 21 June 2023


Reference troubles and an underlying concern

As far as I can tell, Reference 1 is a newspaper book review of Reference 19, which is itself a journalist's account. Therefore, this article does not actually appear to cite any standard "psychological" definition of denialism (I have searched in vain for such a thing). While there are clearly an array of examples of organized prevarication and/or overeager, self-serving credulity that can be gathered under some generic heading, how do we proceed if "denialism" is effectively a pseudoscientific claim in itself, or just a popular meme, rather than a formally documented, diagnosable behavior or tendency? If one follows the chain of references far enough, most of the concept is ultimately based on blog posts by the brothers Hoofnagle (e.g., Refs 12 and 34), each of whom has impressive credentials —— just not in psychology or sociology, as might be expected. Alas, some of them even loop back to this Wikipedia article. Anekeia (talk) 01:39, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Deny, deny, deny" (defense strategy, politics)

Denial as a political and defense strategy is both IRL widespread and non properly covered on Wikipedia ifaik. Trump, but also Biden, Macron, Putin, all use it to spread doubt event when solid observables (=facts) are presented. The communicative, political, strategic side of denial deserves better coverage. Yug (talk) 🐲 11:26, 29 September 2021 (UTC) (Note: I keep this article creation in mind for myself as well but I'am already loaded with other articles)[reply]

Genetically Modified Food controversies more genuinely controversial than presented here

Food, agriculture related ecology and dietary health are more complex topics than the suggestion in this article that opposition to GMOs is denialist implies.

Evidence of recent findings concerning the impact of varied diet on human microbiome diversity and consequent health outcomes implies an emergent and relevant area of knowledge. GMO cropping systems seem likely to come under this developing area of scientific scrutiny. Application of the precautionary principle until more is known can't impartially be described as 'denialist'.

Some of this food impacted gut biome emerging research is linked here: [1]

The article on Genetically Modified Food Controversies: <ref> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetically_modified_food_controversies <ref> seems more impartial.

Therefore, this section of the denialism article doesn't appear to belong here, as if it remains, inclusion will reasonably be considered controversial until a wider consensus can be achieved.

Unless a persuasive argument for keeping this section appears in response, I will attempt removal of this section. Copsewood (talk) 11:54, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The article already says, There is a scientific consensus [..] that each GM food needs to be tested on a case-by-case basis before introduction. The article you linked says nothing about GMOs in general, it does not even contain the words "GMO", "genetic" or "modified" in any combination, so there seems to be no contradiction or even relation to the fact that resistance to GMOs is denialism. --Hob Gadling (talk) 15:26, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment is correct but not persuasive.
Only the fact that “each GM food needs to be tested on a case-by-case basis before introduction” is enough to get this example away from the article about Denialism.
You may want to check this unbelievable case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls) to understand what “needs to be scientifically tested” means.
I agree that this section needs to be removed. Entropy1963 (talk) 19:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Update: just after posting my comment, I received a message from user Tryptofish that on this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Genetically_modified_organisms a huge discussion already exists related to this wording I mentioned in my post.
Only for this reason this section needs to be removed from the article about Denialism for denying, or challenging, ambiguous concepts is not Denialism but a healthy standpoint.
I will remove it myself tomorrow believing that it's better to discuss here whether to include this section than to remove it. Entropy1963 (talk) 06:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Current example

Herbalism / Traditional Chinese medicine / alternative medicine - Millennia of experimentation, sheafs of studies, but it gets shut down a lot by some Western (for example) cultures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.19.167 (talk) 04:26, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is not an example of denialism. If anything is scientifically verified & medically useful, it's just "medicine." — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 15:11, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]