Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment: Difference between revisions
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=== Statement by TomStar81 === |
=== Statement by TomStar81 === |
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When this case was initially heard there was some semblance of peace in the greater Horn of Africa region. Accordingly then, the case itself was understood by both me and others writing with regards to it as being the nations explicitly mentioned above, which lie to the west, south, and southeast as the greater Horn of Africa region. Now, however, we are beginning to get articles on military action such as those described at [[Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war]]. These actions, and the base for them, lie to the North of the Horn of Africa - specifically the [[Red Sea]] and [[Yemen]] (at the moment), although the [[Gulf of Aden]] and or [[Saudi Arabia]] could eventually be drawn into this as well. Given that the ruling for the Horn of Africa arbitration case never explicitly took up the matter of the northern region of the Horn of Africa, I am seeking clarification from the committee as to whether or not the authorized discretionary sanctions may be reasonably construed as including the two major bodies of water (Red Sea and Gulf of Aden), and whether or not Yemen and Saudi Arabia could be reasonably construed under the current definition of the authorized sanctions as "adjoining areas". I point out that the committee already has ARBIA cases on which it has ruled, but to my knowledge the committee has never officially dictated what extent if any its ruling should be applied to adjoining bodies of water. |
When this case was initially heard there was some semblance of peace in the greater Horn of Africa region. Accordingly then, the case itself was understood by both me and others writing with regards to it as being the nations explicitly mentioned above, which lie to the west, south, and southeast as the greater Horn of Africa region. Now, however, we are beginning to get articles on military action such as those described at [[Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war]]. These actions, and the base for them, lie to the North of the Horn of Africa - specifically the [[Red Sea]] and [[Yemen]] (at the moment), although the [[Gulf of Aden]] and or [[Saudi Arabia]] could eventually be drawn into this as well. Given that the ruling for the Horn of Africa arbitration case never explicitly took up the matter of the northern region of the Horn of Africa, I am seeking clarification from the committee as to whether or not the authorized discretionary sanctions may be reasonably construed as including the two major bodies of water (Red Sea and Gulf of Aden), and whether or not Yemen and Saudi Arabia could be reasonably construed under the current definition of the authorized sanctions as "adjoining areas". I point out that the committee already has ARBIA cases on which it has ruled, but to my knowledge the committee has never officially dictated what extent if any its ruling should be applied to adjoining bodies of water. |
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:{{ping|SilkTork}} Weighing the two matters as they relate to the region, and taking into consideration the already existing WP:ARBPIA rulings which impact the middle east articles we have I would suggest that the committee approach the request by clarifying that for purposes of the HOA ruling, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are not to be considered part of the greater Horn of Africa ruling as these nations currently come more directly under the [[WP:ARBPIA]] ruling. This clarification would define the region as independent and as a result not covered by the Horn of Africa case. For the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, I would suggest clarifying that incidents related to these bodies of water - such as piracy in Somalia - may be designated as under the Horn of Africa case if the belligerents are from or based in one of the countries to which the HoA case applies, or designated as under ARBPIA if the belligerents are from or are based in one of the countries recognized as part of the Middle East (in this case, Yemen and Saudi Arabia). I would also clarify that while incidents on the Red Sea and/or Gulf of Aden may be reasonably construed to be under the jurisdiction of either ARBCOM case, admins should avoid preemptively attaching DS related tags to such articles unless there is a good reason to do so, and that in the event that both cases could be reasonably construed as applying to an article admins and editors should be encouraged to develop a consensus for which case a given page's CT topic designation should come under if a CT designation is judged to be needed. In the case of Somali piracy, for example, if the pirates are HoA and the Saudi Government secures there release, I'd defer to HoA since that would be the belligerent nation, but if a ship was attacked by Somali pirates and IDF forces fought them off, I'd me more incline to to lean toward ARBPIA for CT degination if it were judged needed. In the case of the example article ([[Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war]]), that seems more geared toward ARBPIA since the belligerents are based in Yemen, while the [[Maersk Alabama hijacking]] would be more geared toward HoA since that was entirely a result of action by Somali pirates. As for any disruption or edit warring in the region, I have seen none - yet - however I am concerned that Hamas's attack on October 7th and the resulting conflict in the region is causing more and more groups to commit either resources to the region for defense of personnel for military action. Since the committee has approximately 5 different cases that may be obtusely construed to apply here in some way, shape, or form (HoA, ARBPIA, Iran, India-Afganistan-Pakistan, & Islam) I feel it important to clarify which case for which region here and to provide guidance on how to approach naval actions related to these regions. [[User:TomStar81|TomStar81]] ([[User talk:TomStar81|Talk]]) 06:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC) |
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=== Statement by {other-editor} === |
=== Statement by {other-editor} === |
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Revision as of 06:48, 6 December 2023
- recent changes
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| Request name | Motions | Initiated | Votes |
|---|---|---|---|
| Anachronist | 16 June 2024 | 0/5/0 | |
| Rio Grande 223 | 19 June 2024 | 0/0/0 |
| Request name | Motions | Case | Posted |
|---|---|---|---|
| Amendment request: Ireland article names | Motion | (orig. case) | 2 December 2023 |
| Amendment request: Horn of Africa | none | (orig. case) | 5 December 2023 |
| Motion name | Date posted |
|---|---|
| Block of Rp2006 | 18 June 2024 |
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Amendment request: Ireland article names
| Motion enacted. firefly ( t · c ) 17:45, 2 December 2023 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Initiated by Crouch, Swale at 22:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Crouch, SwaleThe likes of Template:IECOLL-talk and Template:Editnotices/Page/Talk:Ireland state that discussions relating to the Ireland articles must take place at Wikipedia:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration but should it not instead link to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ireland Collaboration as the project's talk page not the project its self is where discussions for issues/improving articles generally take place. The current linking to the project page rather than its talk page is confusing and has lead to things like this given it suggests the project page and not the project talk page is the required location for discussion. Changing to say the project's talk page would save this confusion.
Statement by ScolaireI support Izno's proposal to return the discussions to the article talk pages. Fifteen years ago there was so much traffic at both Talk:Ireland and Talk:Republic of Ireland from people demanding or opposing name changes that it was impossible to get anything else discussed. Nowadays, there are only a few requests a year (one so far in 2023), and the discussions are short. I think that the requirement to discuss article names at IECOLL should be ended, and the notice at the top of the talk pages removed. Scolaire (talk) 15:33, 29 November 2023 (UTC) Comment by GoodDayPerhaps it's time to retire WP:IECOLL. -- GoodDay (talk) 16:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC) Statement by Thryduulfre: SilkTork. I've searched the post-2009 arbitration archives for "Wikpedia:WikiProject" and I've not found any other live remedies or amendments that direct comments to a WikiProject page. Thryduulf (talk) 19:00, 29 November 2023 (UTC) Statement by {other-editor}Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information. Ireland article names: Clerk notes
Ireland article names: Arbitrator views and discussion
Motion: Ireland article names - Required location of move discussions rescindedThe two Ireland page name move discussion restrictions enacted in June 2009 are rescinded. Enacted - firefly ( t · c ) 17:39, 2 December 2023 (UTC) Support
Oppose Abstain Discussion |
Amendment request: Horn of Africa
Initiated by TomStar81 at 18:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- Clauses to which an amendment is requested
- "This case request is provisionally resolved by motion as follows: Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages relating to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes) for a trial period of three months and until further decision of this Committee."
- List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
- TomStar81 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (initiator)
- Information about amendment request
- "This case request is provisionally resolved by motion as follows: Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages relating to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes) for a trial period of three months and until further decision of this Committee."
- I am seeking clarification of this case as it relates to other cases concerning the middle east to determine how this should be interpreted as effecting northern regions within the framework of the existing Arbitration cases that have been ruled on to date.
Statement by TomStar81
When this case was initially heard there was some semblance of peace in the greater Horn of Africa region. Accordingly then, the case itself was understood by both me and others writing with regards to it as being the nations explicitly mentioned above, which lie to the west, south, and southeast as the greater Horn of Africa region. Now, however, we are beginning to get articles on military action such as those described at Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war. These actions, and the base for them, lie to the North of the Horn of Africa - specifically the Red Sea and Yemen (at the moment), although the Gulf of Aden and or Saudi Arabia could eventually be drawn into this as well. Given that the ruling for the Horn of Africa arbitration case never explicitly took up the matter of the northern region of the Horn of Africa, I am seeking clarification from the committee as to whether or not the authorized discretionary sanctions may be reasonably construed as including the two major bodies of water (Red Sea and Gulf of Aden), and whether or not Yemen and Saudi Arabia could be reasonably construed under the current definition of the authorized sanctions as "adjoining areas". I point out that the committee already has ARBIA cases on which it has ruled, but to my knowledge the committee has never officially dictated what extent if any its ruling should be applied to adjoining bodies of water.
- @SilkTork: Weighing the two matters as they relate to the region, and taking into consideration the already existing WP:ARBPIA rulings which impact the middle east articles we have I would suggest that the committee approach the request by clarifying that for purposes of the HOA ruling, Saudi Arabia and Yemen are not to be considered part of the greater Horn of Africa ruling as these nations currently come more directly under the WP:ARBPIA ruling. This clarification would define the region as independent and as a result not covered by the Horn of Africa case. For the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden, I would suggest clarifying that incidents related to these bodies of water - such as piracy in Somalia - may be designated as under the Horn of Africa case if the belligerents are from or based in one of the countries to which the HoA case applies, or designated as under ARBPIA if the belligerents are from or are based in one of the countries recognized as part of the Middle East (in this case, Yemen and Saudi Arabia). I would also clarify that while incidents on the Red Sea and/or Gulf of Aden may be reasonably construed to be under the jurisdiction of either ARBCOM case, admins should avoid preemptively attaching DS related tags to such articles unless there is a good reason to do so, and that in the event that both cases could be reasonably construed as applying to an article admins and editors should be encouraged to develop a consensus for which case a given page's CT topic designation should come under if a CT designation is judged to be needed. In the case of Somali piracy, for example, if the pirates are HoA and the Saudi Government secures there release, I'd defer to HoA since that would be the belligerent nation, but if a ship was attacked by Somali pirates and IDF forces fought them off, I'd me more incline to to lean toward ARBPIA for CT degination if it were judged needed. In the case of the example article (Houthi involvement in the 2023 Israel–Hamas war), that seems more geared toward ARBPIA since the belligerents are based in Yemen, while the Maersk Alabama hijacking would be more geared toward HoA since that was entirely a result of action by Somali pirates. As for any disruption or edit warring in the region, I have seen none - yet - however I am concerned that Hamas's attack on October 7th and the resulting conflict in the region is causing more and more groups to commit either resources to the region for defense of personnel for military action. Since the committee has approximately 5 different cases that may be obtusely construed to apply here in some way, shape, or form (HoA, ARBPIA, Iran, India-Afganistan-Pakistan, & Islam) I feel it important to clarify which case for which region here and to provide guidance on how to approach naval actions related to these regions. TomStar81 (Talk) 06:48, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
Statement by {other-editor}
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
Horn of Africa: Clerk notes
- This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).
Horn of Africa: Arbitrator views and discussion
- For me, piracy off of Somolia would clearly be covered by this contentious topic scope. So some expansion into waters feels well with-in the scope. Yemen/Saudi Arbaia feels outside of the scope in the abstract but I reserve the right to feel differently in a specific situation where more factors can be considered. Barkeep49 (talk) 19:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with Barkeep. Izno (talk) 19:34, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- I also agree with Barkeep. KevinL (aka L235 · t · c) 20:23, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- TomStar81, as you drew the Committee's attention to the disruption in 2020, and through your knowledge and experience of the area and the disruption, pretty much defined the scope, I think I'd like to be advised by you as to where you feel the scope should currently lie. As you seeing disruption or inappropriate editing in some of the northern regions? Could you point us to some of the concerns you have? SilkTork (talk) 02:23, 6 December 2023 (UTC)