Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey

Draft capitalization

I moved a few pages like 1991 NHL dispersal and expansion drafts to lowercase, but then noticed there are a whole bunch of different lines of NHL articles with Draft capitalized. Are any of these consistently capped in sources? Dicklyon (talk) 22:05, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Was an RM held to have those pages moved? GoodDay (talk) 22:30, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I reversed your unilateral page move there & the one concerning the CFL & MLS. Please, if you want such sports related pages moved? go the RM route. GoodDay (talk) 22:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

Are you saying that you think those are better capitalized? Or just don't want to see over-capitalization corrected without wasting a whole bunch more editor time? Dicklyon (talk) 23:03, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I do believe (at least concerning sports pages) that you were asked to not make unilateral page moves. Open up an RM at NHL Entry Draft, including all kinds of NHL related Drafts. Open up an RM at CFL Draft, including all kinds of CFL related Drafts. Open up an RM at 2014 MLS Expansion Draft, including all kinds of MLS related Drafts. It's not that difficult to do. GoodDay (talk) 23:10, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

"sport related", "NHL related". Something missing? Tony (talk) 03:57, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@Wordsmith:, @Amakuru: What's your view? Should the RM route be taken? GoodDay (talk) 23:14, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

We already had a noconsensus at the Amateur Drafts pages, so it was clearly not an uncontroversial move. To proceed as if it was does not appear genuine, unless it was forgotten about, which is possible I suppose.18abruce (talk) 23:31, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't recall that one, and can't find it, but maybe there was. Anyway, I wasn't going to jump on the NHL Entry Draft without more discussion. Currently, in hockey it's just 1991 NHL dispersal and expansion drafts that I moved and that GoodDay reverted. I don't see how that could be considered a proper name, nor can its parts "dispersal draft" and "expansion draft" which are mostly lowercase in sources. I think he just likes to see RM discussions for some reason, so I guess we'll do that. Dicklyon (talk) 02:07, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

I went ahead and started that RM discussion that GoodDay wanted, at Talk:1991 NHL Dispersal and Expansion Drafts#Requested move 17 March 2024, on 14 NHL article titles. Dicklyon (talk) 02:35, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

@GoodDay: I haven't studied the evidence, but there's been enough controversy over this type of thing lately that I definitely think an RM is permissible and probably advisable. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:29, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

In light of all the consensus to lowercase "draft" pretty much everywhere (though we haven't talked about "Entry Draft" yet), I leave the KHL Draft and other outlier articles up to y'all. Here's the relevant background where all the issues have been hammered out over and over and over:

• Talk:CFL Draft#Requested move 27 March 2024 – Lowercase Draft, Expansion Draft, Dispersal Draft, Global Draft? Result: Lowercase
• Talk:2024 NWSL Expansion Draft#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; lowercase "expansion draft" and such? Result: Lowercase "expansion draft"
• Talk:1991 NHL Dispersal and Expansion Drafts#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; lowercase "expansion draft" and such? Result: Lowercase
  • Talk:AAF QB Draft#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; more lowercasing of draft? Result: Lowercase
  • Talk:2001 WUSA Supplemental Draft#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; lowercasing of "supplemental draft"? Result: Lowercase
  • Talk:MLS Supplemental Draft#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; more lowercasing of "supplemental draft"? Result: Lowercase
  • Talk:NHL Supplemental Draft#Requested move 17 March 2024 – Multi; more lowercasing of "supplemental draft"? Result: Lowercase
• Talk:USFL Draft#Requested move 13 February 2024 – Lowercase "Draft" (multiple articles)? Result: Lowercase
• Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Capitalization of NFL draft article titles – "NFL Draft" vs "NFL draft" in article text and titles. Result: Lowercase draft; and move the 400 or so affected articles.
  • Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive359 § Close review of Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Capitalization of NFL draft article titles – Result: Close endorsed.
• Talk:Major League Baseball draft#Requested move 18 January 2024 – Capitalize "Draft"? Result: Lowercase retained.
• Talk:American Football League draft#Requested move 18 January 2024 – Capitalize "Draft"? Result: lowercase
• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 49#MLB Draft or draft? – Is "Draft" part of a proper name? – concluded lowercase

Similarly with all the conference finals; I leave KHL Conference Finals to y'all. Dicklyon (talk) 21:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

I won't oppose lower-casing to "Conference finals" & "KHL conference finals". GoodDay (talk) 03:10, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

But you did oppose before, so now will you help fix? Dicklyon (talk) 03:55, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

If you recommend those pages being moved at required board? I'll second the recommendation. GoodDay (talk) 04:16, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm recommending it here. Go ahead and make it happen. Or leave it as a monument to obstruction. Dicklyon (talk) 16:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: Are there any future articles you're looking into? The KHL stuff can be fairly easy to switch. Conyo14 (talk) 03:47, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, plenty, among them other groups of capped "Draft" article titles. See User:Dicklyon/Entry Draft for some. I also have a file of "WP to fix" stuff off-wiki, with many thousands of articles worth of things to work on eventually. Many of these are things like over-capped table headings, each in hundreds of articles, that I can't really work on without semi-automated tools. Want to help? Dicklyon (talk) 03:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: I don't have time to be passionate about that kind of capitalization. I was just curious. Conyo14 (talk) 04:12, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

Understood. Caps are not something to get passionate about. If you'll help with KHL, that'd be appreciated. Dicklyon (talk) 04:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I've opened up RMs at KHL Conference Finals & Conference Finals. -- GoodDay (talk) 16:14, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

If you want more input, list those at WT:MOSCAPS#Current. Dicklyon (talk) 23:15, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

2. Divisioona, II-divisioona or Rautaliiga

The Finnish 4th tier of ice hockey, which is formally referred to as "II-divisioona" or 2. Divisioona" has an another name, which might be even more common than those previously mentioned. The league is often called "Rautaliiga" (Finnish for "Iron League"). Should we change that name or do we keep it as it is now. For example Liiga is called Liiga here because thats the common name, even though it is supposed to be SM-liiga.

Here's some links where the term Rautaliiga is used: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5] – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 10:14, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Article Class for seasons

The 2021–22 Seattle Kraken season is rated as a Stub–class article. However, the 2023–24 Seattle Kraken season is rated as C–class. Should it be this way? There needs to be some consistency for this. I personally believe that they should be C–class. Thank you. XR228 (talk) 01:40, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

I have reclassified both as start-level. Both articles are lacking siginificant prose to explain the lists and charts. Flibirigit (talk) 02:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Just curious, do mean when you say that they need "significant prose?" They are just charts with standings and games, and they are cited. Should there be a few more lines at the top to get the article to a higher class? Thanks. XR228 (talk) 04:28, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Season articles rarely get past "Stub/Start" simply because the article has the schedule, stats, transactions, placement in the standings, and draft picks. It does not go into detail what happened throughout the season, why trades were made, how the this seasons' team made an impact to the world. It simply collects the details of the season of the team. The Class system is described here: Category:Ice Hockey articles by quality. Conyo14 (talk) 04:49, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

United States women's national ice hockey team

Hi all, I have started a discussion on Talk:United States women's national ice hockey team regarding the Topscorer / Most Points Stats for the US women's team. Could somebody help to clarify? Xgeorg (talk) 07:52, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

List of NHL statistical leaders

Need some eyes at List of NHL statistical leaders, as IP is making updates. Not certain if their attempt updates are accurate or timed correctly. GoodDay (talk) 01:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like they've stopped. Conyo14 (talk) 02:37, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Universidae in stats table

I was adding a stats table to Akane Shiga and I wasn't sure whether to include the FISU World University Games in the international stats table. Elite Prospects categorizes it with minor international tournaments, such as the Hlinka Gretzky Cup, which is usually included here, and the World Junior A Challenge, which is sometimes included here. I would have just added it to the table, but as an under-25 tournament it doesn't fit neatly into our scheme of totaling junior and senior competitions separately. It feels weird to add it and not include it in either total, and incorrect to add it to either the junior or senior totals. The other options would be to leave it in the medal table (it was already there for Shiga) but omit it from the stats tables, or to remove it from the medal table. Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 19:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

EYOF and Olympic Qualifiers

Simple question: should the European Youth Olympic Festival and Olympic qualifying tournaments be included in stats tables? Sometimes they are (e.g. Lenni Hameenaho and Sanni Vanhanen), but in most cases they are not.

In a similar vein, is there anywhere where it is expressly written that youth statistics are trivial? I want to remove them from Vanhanen's article but I anticipate pushback from the creator of the article Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 19:30, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

Nebraska Night Owls

Came across this nonsense: Nebraska Knight Owls - trimmed some outright CRYSTAL and falsehoods, it should probably be nuked but maybe someone else wants to take a crack at it. Echoedmyron (talk) 14:10, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Considering their addition of “Cody Taylor” as GM, this appears to be the same user as SpeakingConsequences, who was banned a few months back for inserting made-up content into articles. I’m gonna PROD the article (there’s nothing in it that justifies a separate article from Potential National Hockey League expansion) and open an SPI. The Kip 14:38, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

SPI has been opened at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/SpeakingConsequences. The Kip 15:45, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Ah, good catch - you know I thought "Cody Taylor" sounded familiar but couldn't place it, now I'm remembering the prior hoax additions. Echoedmyron (talk) 17:14, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Turns out our pal here is a notorious sockmaster with 38 confirmed socks, and hockey’s just his latest target. Both accounts have been blocked. The Kip 03:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh my, this is definitely someone looking for a regional ban at this point. Conyo14 (talk) 15:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Opened up an LTA case/file at Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/ProTaylorCraft. The Kip 05:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Ultras draft

I invite everyone who knows anything about ultras groups in ice hockey to contribute to Draft:Ultras (ice hockey) – Poriman55 - Meddela mig! 15:40, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

IP Vandalism at Jack Hughes

IP editors (likely just one person) keep removing the paragraph stating that Jack Hughes is Jewish. Should we keep just reverting it or should we take other action? Wheatzilopochtli (talk) 18:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Keep reverting, I'd say. It seems like the same editor, so WP:RPP isn't necessary. I will check for evidence and report to WP:AIV if applicable. Wracking ^talk! 18:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

An OT situation we didn’t plan for.

Well, the seemingly impossible happened - the Wild pulled their goalie in OT, got scored on, and forfeited the loser point as a result. Believe it’s the first time it’s ever happened.

It officially goes as an OTL for them, but our standings template automatically counts an OTL as one point - what do we do here? The Kip 22:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh that's odd. I guess our incredibly rare circumstance requires a change in the standings procedure to allow for this to occur. Perhaps, we can manually change the points if such a thing were to happen again? Conyo14 (talk) 23:27, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Actually looking back, this exact scenario has happened twice prior, but both were before Wiki hockey made the standings table auto-update: 4/7/2000 EDM vs VAN, and CBJ vs LAK on 3/25/2003 Conyo14 (talk) 23:30, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay so the official NHL standings do not have it in place to consider an overtime loss in this scenario to not include the 1 point either. Some poor web dev is going to have to manually change their script too. Conyo14 (talk) 23:46, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I looked this up in an NHL Guide and Record book and confirmed it with the league's record site and in cases like this the two previous times this happened the games were counted as a regular loss. Deadman137 (talk) 00:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Much appreciated, wasn’t actually aware of that. Guess we won’t have to do much after all, haha. The Kip 00:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The only thing on our end is making sure that Vegas doesn't get credit for a regulation win. Today's result still counts as an overtime win for Vegas for the purpose of tiebreakers. Deadman137 (talk) 01:01, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The league's main website has the error present on the 1999–2000 Canucks and the 2002–03 Kings records and point totals. On the records site the information is correct for those two situations and the league is now listing today's game as a loss for the Wild. Deadman137 (talk) 02:28, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Marty Walsh

@SecretName101: recently moved Marty Walsh (ice hockey) to Marty Walsh (ice hockey player), with the rationale that he is ambiguous with Marty Walsh, the leader of the NHLPA. This move goes against Wikipedia:Naming conventions (ice hockey), which says to use year of birth. Any objections to moving it to Marty Walsh (ice hockey, born 1884)? -unsigned comment by User:Flibirigit

@Flibirigit: No objection. SecretName101 (talk) 21:19, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Sounds good Conyo14 (talk) 21:22, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I implemented the change. SecretName101 (talk) 21:23, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Reliability of The Hockey Writers

Figure WP:Ice Hockey might be able to give some solid input at this discussion on WP:RS. The Kip 00:48, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Aside from whether anything factual may be sourced to them if they're deemed an RS, I find the writing to be pretty amateurish and it's pretty much a fan site with silly opinions, and I don't take it seriously at all. My two cents. Echoedmyron (talk) 23:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

2024-25 NHL season & related pages

We use Czechia for the IIHF tournament articles. Shall we start using Czechia for other ice hockey articles, too? GoodDay (talk) 22:44, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

There was a whole RfC about the use of Czechia vs Czech Republic, which resulted in a No consensus. In the view of the IIHF, there was an RM for specifically the Czech Republic men's national ice hockey team that resulted in the same outcome. My view is still the same that Czechia is WP:COMMONNAME, but I suspect that a lot more may disagree. Conyo14 (talk) 23:44, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it would result in the change that you desire at this point. This is likely something that will change in the future and if it was just a hockey decision it probably would've already been done. Sometimes change is glacial around here. Deadman137 (talk) 01:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

Disruptive edits at Montreal Canadiens-related pages

Just want to inform everybody that an IP editor has been going against various policies/guidelines on Montreal Canadiens-related pages. I have already reported that editor at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Disruptive editing by User:47.54.146.218, but so far no action has been taken. – sbaio 13:45, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

2023-24 NHL season page, not functioning

I've tried for two days, to update the stats at 2023-24 NHL season. The updates show in the boxes separately. But, won't show on the full page. GoodDay (talk) 02:10, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

This kind of stuff could be raised to the meta wiki. The programmers may have released something that f'd up something else. Conyo14 (talk) 03:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Potential Arizona Coyotes relocation

Something to keep an eye on. Lots of chatter among the national hockey writers, and also the Coyotes own beat writers, that the Coyotes will be moving to Utah over this off-season (specifically, that the league plans to announce things on this sometime after the last Coyotes regular season game).

Now, we can look back at the Jets / Thrashers relocation in 2011, and see articles and statements from Bettman and other league execs denying the relocation as late as May 25 (the sale and relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg would become official on May 31).

Also of note, it looks like the NHL might be willing to grant Coyotes owner Meruelo a "five year window" in which he can basically get the right of first refusal to another Arizona NHL franchise. This might be something like the Browns / Ravens situation from the NFL, where the Browns players and front office were moved to Baltimore in 1995, but the Ravens were deemed to be an "expansion" team, with the Browns records and history staying in Cleveland (the Browns were put into a period of "inactivity" for a few years, resuming operations in 1999). Canuck^{89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page} 20:38, April 12, 2024 (UTC)

It could, but given how the league usually does things the franchise history would most likely stay with the relocated team. Either way we'll deal with it. We will need to see when the official relocation date is as that will have implications on the current and upcoming draft and transaction articles. Deadman137 (talk) 02:56, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

I can't rememember if the Trashers / Jets did any transactions (trades, signings, etc...) in the time between the move was officially announced (end of May 2011) and the end of the league year (end of June 2011). Will have to see how things go for how to assign things to Arizona or to Utah. We do have the picks of the 2011 NHL Draft (held June 24) as belonging to Winnipeg. Canuck^{89 (Converse with me) or visit my user page} 09:31, April 13, 2024 (UTC)

Why not wait until something actually happens? This looks like a lot of unsourced rumors, which is not the goal of Wikipedia. Flibirigit (talk) 11:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

The executive committee has voted to approve the relocation. Assuming the full board of owners will vote on the move sometime in the next week (to get the official announcement out just after the end of the regular season). News article Canuck^{89 (Converse with me) or visit my user page} 19:53, April 15, 2024 (UTC)

Just to answer your previous query Canuckian, the last trade Atlanta made in 2011 was at the trade deadline. They did not sign any free agents after the trade deadline or during the relocation phase and no trades were commenced by the Jets until the second day of the 2011 draft, which for our purposes was already the next league year.

Once this becomes official the future draft pick trades that Arizona has been involved in will have to be reworded but that won't take long to fix though there are trades that go into 2027.

Are there any objections to calling the relocated team the Salt Lake City NHL team until the new name becomes official? Deadman137 (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn’t be opposed, though Utah NHL team might be a more concise alternative. The Kip 21:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I've had the same thought about Utah as well. I figured that a quick straw poll (don't care which way it goes) for a temporary article would be the best idea until the permanent name is announced. Deadman137 (talk) 21:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

I believe that team is required to use "Utah" instead of SLC, as per a state law about accessing public funding. Also, @Deadman137:, it appears somewhat likely that the NHL is going to grant Coyotes owner Muruelo what is effectively a 5 year period for a "right of first refusal" regarding another Arizona NHL team, and the Coyotes name, logo, records, etc... will be left behind in Arizona. So, we might have a Browns / Ravens situation, where the NHL considers Utah to be an "expansion" team with no prior history, and the Coyotes get "deactivated" for 5 years to give Meruelo time to get his situation in Arizona all sorted out (like how the Browns were also rendered "inactive" for a few years in the late 1990s). Canuck^{89 (Speak with me) or visit my user page} 21:37, April 15, 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Sebastian Aho (ice hockey, born 1997) § Requested move 12 April 2024

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Sebastian Aho (ice hockey, born 1997) § Requested move 12 April 2024. Wracking ^talk! 22:54, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

The Cody Taylor vandal has returned

As seen here. Already taken to SPI. The Kip 15:31, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

How many accounts need to be blocked for them to get the point? Conyo14 (talk) 00:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

At least 77, apparently. The Kip 21:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

RMs opened for NHL Entry Draft & related pages

RMs opened at NHL Entry Draft, KHL Conference Finals & Conference Finals, btw. GoodDay (talk) 02:46, 14 April 2024 (UTC)