Talk:Steven van de Velde: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 17:58, 26 June 2024

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group.

Netherlands

This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Netherlands, an attempt to create, expand, and improve articles related to the Netherlands on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, visit the project page where you can join the project or contribute to the discussion.NetherlandsWikipedia:WikiProject NetherlandsTemplate:WikiProject NetherlandsNetherlands

Crime and Criminal Biography

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

RfC regarding the inclusion of the "convicted child sex offender" in first sentence

Please consider joining the feedback request service.

An editor has requested comments from other editors for this discussion. This page has been added to the following lists:

Biographies
Society, sports, and culture

When discussion has ended, remove this tag and it will be removed from the lists. If this page is on additional lists, they will be noted below.

Should the article include the words "convicted child sex offender" in first sentence ? PrinceofPunjab^TALK 07:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is not his primary claim to notability - he is a sportsman first and foremost. Plus the conviction was a decade ago, when he was just 19 43.224.7.192 (talk) 07:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- He is actually known for his crime conviction. There is no notable tournament he has won. In fact, this very article was created only after he was convicted of the crime. Also, conviction being a decade ago doesn't mean that it is any less notable. Also, WP:SPA PrinceofPunjab^TALK 08:01, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - The Dutch article lists him as winning the Dutch national volleyball tournament numerous years. The fact that this article was created after the conviction can be explained by the anglophone audience being more interested in that than his volleyball career. Glennznl (talk) 08:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - The Dutch national beach volleyball tour is not a notable tournament in the beach volleyball world. Notable tournaments are international ones and looks like he didn't get further than quarterfinals there in the last few years. CatalanSpaniard (talk) 17:43, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - Besides this, his primary notability as a volleyball player can easily be proved, because we don't write Wikipedia articles about any child rapist that hits the news. He is notable for being a professional volleyball player, who also raped a child. --Glennznl (talk) 10:45, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - In the Anglo world he is famous for being a dutch athlete that raped a child yet only one part of that gets mentioned in the first sentence or the lead? AstraIgnea (talk) 16:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it is a part of his main identity. 50.27.41.37 (talk) 11:04, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Added a hidden note to the page indicating that it should be discussed here before adding "child rapist" to the lead. LakesideMiners^{Come Talk To Me!} 12:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@PrinceofPunjab: Why have you gone straight to a full-blown thirty-day formal WP:RFC without (so far as I can tell) trying anything shown at WP:RFCBEFORE, let alone exhausting those suggestions? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 15:23, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Right? Also, all mention of him being a criminal has been removed from the first paragraph and moved to the bottom of the page now. And the post is locked! Is this a PR cleanup? CatalanSpaniard (talk) 17:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE says the first sentence should include the main reason the person is notable. It appears the main reason this person is notable is for being a beach volleyball player. I would have to see a lot more evidence to suggest he's more notable for the conviction. The conviction can be mentioned in the lead of course, but it doesn't belong in the first sentence. Nemov (talk) 16:10, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Does it make any destinctions between language? Because in the Anglo world he is more notable for his conviction but I get the impression that is not the case in the Netherlands. In the UK for example he is only mentioned in mainstream media for his original crime and now that they are being critical of him competing in this years olympics. The fact that in English he has only received media coverage for his crime suggests that the crime should probably go in his first line. AstraIgnea (talk) 16:48, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - AstraIgnea, Nemov is correct. We're the English Wikipedia, not the Wikipedia that only looks at English sources. Drmies (talk) 16:55, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Dutch media reports on this a lot too. Looking at the edit history, the page had something like this on it since like 2016: "Steven van de Velde (born 8 August 1994, in The Hague) is a Dutch beach volleyball player and convicted rapist." — why is it being removed now? CatalanSpaniard (talk) 17:50, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he is a criminal. The rape is what he's known for in professional and amateur beach volleyball circles for the last 10 years. Also, most media about him has been on this, not about his volleyball career. Every other athlete and convicted rapist has this mentioned in their first line: (1) "Darren Mallory Sharper (born November 3, 1975) is an American convicted serial rapist and a former football safety who played in the National Football League (NFL) for 14 seasons." (2) "Dana William Stubblefield (born November 14, 1970) is an American former professional football player and convicted sex offender." (3) "Gary Thomas Brabham (born 29 March 1961) is a former professional racing driver and a convicted child sex offender from Australia." (4) "Felipe Javier Vázquez (né Rivero, born July 5, 1991) is a Venezuelan convicted sex offender and former professional baseball pitcher." Even robbers and other criminals have it mentioned: (5) "Clifford Etienne (born March 9, 1970) is an American former professional boxer and convicted robber, who is currently serving a 105-year prison sentence without the possibility of parole." (6) "Sergio Armando Mitre (born February 16, 1981) is a Mexican-American convicted felon and former professional baseball pitcher." At the very least it should be in the second sentence. Now someone has removed it and moved it to the bottom of the page. Looks like whitewashing or some PR work. CatalanSpaniard (talk) 17:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

context: https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1dovnqu/dutch_volleyball_player_jailed_for_raping_british/ 46.253.187.227 (talk) 17:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Steven van de Velde. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Steven van de Velde is a convicted rapist. 50.101.88.106 (talk) 17:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 *'''Yes''', he is a criminal. '''The rape is what he's known for in professional and amateur beach volleyball circles for the last 10 years'''. Also, most media about him has been on this, not about his volleyball career. Every other athlete and convicted rapist has this mentioned in their first line: (1) "Darren Mallory Sharper (born November 3, 1975) is an American convicted serial rapist and a former football safety who played in the National Football League (NFL) for 14 seasons." (2) "Dana William Stubblefield (born November 14, 1970) is an American former professional football player and convicted sex offender." (3) "Gary Thomas Brabham (born 29 March 1961) is a former professional racing driver and a convicted child sex offender from Australia." (4) "Felipe Javier Vázquez (né Rivero, born July 5, 1991) is a Venezuelan convicted sex offender and former professional baseball pitcher." Even robbers and other criminals have it mentioned: (5) "Clifford Etienne (born March 9, 1970) is an American former professional boxer and convicted robber, who is currently serving a 105-year prison sentence without the possibility of parole." (6) "Sergio Armando Mitre (born February 16, 1981) is a Mexican-American convicted felon and former professional baseball pitcher." At the very least it should be in the second sentence. '''Now someone has removed it and moved it to the bottom of the page. Looks like whitewashing or some PR work'''. [[User:CatalanSpaniard|CatalanSpaniard]] ([[User talk:CatalanSpaniard|talk]]) 17:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
+:context: https://old.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/1dovnqu/dutch_volleyball_player_jailed_for_raping_british/ [[Special:Contributions/46.253.187.227|46.253.187.227]] ([[User talk:46.253.187.227|talk]]) 17:58, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 == Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2024 ==