Talk:Captain America

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Death

Shouldn't someone write something in here about his death?

Yes. For example, he'll be back soon, Steve Rogers cannot be dead for too long.

i wrote about it the day they "killed him" on March 7th. but apparently someone reverted it back to its original state. --Mclover08 17:16, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, the death is described in two sections in the entry: the Publication History, and the Character Biography.--Galliaz 20:44, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's been said that Captain America might return, but Steve Rogers is going to stay dead.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.101.206 (talk • contribs)

In general shouldn't someone be commenting on the lack of manliness of comicbook superheroes since the 1940s? The Human torch routinely burned the flesh off of japs and germans alike. Why do superheroes today have a "sissy girl" approach to enemy infestations? Cap, and the others should be in the middle east exterminating the infestation. I imagine Stan Lee will create a gay Captain America with a young chicken assistant Bucky Barnes for his NAMBLA fans.

Super serum

super serum has given him many super human traits ( surviving icy colds and in supended animation plus more) one over looked factor is healing factor that is not up to the par of the wolvrine but effective none the less. 202.142.190.245 07:55, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

He doesn't have a healing factor. It should also be noted that since the Streets of Poison storyline, Cap's lost his powers and now has to constantly train and work out in order to keep himself in top form.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.126.60 (talk • contribs)

Healing like Wolverine no. But he does heal faster then normal feats like recovering from a beating from Namor, to taking a bullet to the shoulder as Cap states I heal quickly because I'm built that way. To his immune system blocking a foreign agent that affected everyone else in marvel, to even healing from a bullet to the head as a Doctor pronounced him dead in the Cap/Falcun solo series. The Poison storyline he did lose the SSS but then he regained it.Sage99

Google Streets of Poison and Captain America and you'll find plenty of links to use as a citation.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.73.126.60 (talk • contribs)

The above editor's unsigned comments were followed by him editing the section. His edits were reverted for being simply more verbose, more of an issue style summary, nd for removing a Cite needed, instead of providing a cite, which should not be happening whiel adding even more info. ThuranX 05:23, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Massive Reference Section Revision

I am going to do the hard work of reformatting the references using the: ==References== <div class="references-small"> <references/> </div> & <ref name="refnamegoeshere">{{cite web| url=http://www.urlgoeshere.com|title=titlegoeshere}}</ref> format. I hope nobody has problems with that. I am going to fix the Bibliography section and turn that into references, and the references into external links. I'll have to take a closer look. Anyone have comments or wants to help? (Bjorn Tipling 20:12, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

Okay I am about to begin. I will save once per edit so it wont interfere with what other editors are doing, or as little as possible. If it ends up looking bad, we can always revert, but at least we'll have something to compare it too. This will go a long way to getting this article into featured status I hope. For more info check out WP:Footnotes. Also I am adding a template message saying major revisions are being done. (Bjorn Tipling 21:07, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

afraid to edit the page while you're working on it, but in regards to your question about:

Current revision (22:21, 9 August 2006) (edit) Btipling (Talk | contribs) (→2000s - ref for ca 1 2002 - different comic?)

It's Cap Vol 4, issue 1 for nick fury recruiting cap. cap reveals he's steve rogers in issue 3. the prologue of issue 7 refers to him moving to Red Hook. Impulse 22:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I'll edit that now. I am going to take a break before I tackle alternate captain americas, because that's going to be a lot of work. I'll take the massive edit tag down while I rest.(Bjorn Tipling 22:38, 9 August 2006 (UTC))

While you're resting i'll see if i can supply any missing dates from my cap collection, i see some issues i have Impulse 22:45, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

You're quite right about those New X-men links being off, Khaosworks, but the origin story refers to the 1940s version (vita-rays were a retcon), so someone can link a more relevant origin referance if they find one before me, i've got to take off shortly Impulse 01:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It's probably either from the Tales of Suspense origin or the John Byrne retelling in the 1980s. I'll check those references up when I get home. -khaosworks (talk • contribs) 03:23, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I added the Adventures of Cap'n A for now, i skimmed through it and it was a pretty modern origin retelling, but if you see any ToS issues that are better and earlier fits, by all means! =D Impulse 03:29, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay I am ready to get started again, I'll just work on the alternate captain americas section, and not put one of those tags up again for the whole article. I don't really see many references for the TV sections and what goes after it. Thanks for all your help impulse, those dates look great, and yeah that was supposed to be civil war 1-7 not 77. Thank you also Khaosworks. I better get busy. (Bjorn Tipling 03:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Btipling, let me be the first to say you've done an excellent (and lengthy!) job formatting the article too, before today I hadn't a firm idea on how to do citations, but all those referance links really make the article come together. Impulse 03:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey no problem, I enjoy doing it. I appreciate your help. I wasn't sure people would like the changes, I am glad you do though. I really have a desire to see this article attain featured status. It probably has a way to go, but you guys have been doing great work on this article, I am just formatting it. I don't really have the specific knowledge of the character, I have just always liked it though. (Bjorn Tipling 03:46, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Also I wasn't sure I could use a self closing tag for second instances of references, or if that was smart if an earlier instance of a reference is later removed, but it did feel like duplication. (Bjorn Tipling 03:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Okay I think I am done. I don't see too many more places where there are clear references. I think it might be possible to make that references section two columns, and if you like I think we can decrease the size of the bibliography section to make it look more like the references section. (Bjorn Tipling 04:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

looks very sharp, i look forward to tighting up specific referances in the days to come. I was just looking at how Batman was a feature article the other day and thinking "hmmm, if that pointy eared guy is a FA, Cap should be an FA" =D Impulse 05:11, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Exactly, we can still beat Spider-Man, but wait a second, that article could use some reference section cleaning. I might have to jump in on that when I have some more time. (Bjorn Tipling 05:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Spidey is a lot more disorganized, but I suppose they are trying to work in a lot more storylines. 4-5 ongoing series will do that, cap's history is relatively uncluttered next to him. I wouldn't mind seeing the Webhead get FA either though! Maybe we could propose CA as the collabration of the month, might speed along the process Impulse 05:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Seriously, what's the point? Due to the out of control "retcon" nonsense, any character can be created, uncreated, cloned, resurrected, ripped from the timeline, have their gender changed, etc. There is no continuity anymore and no rationale, save that of whoever happens to be working on the project at the time, and whatever stunt they think will generate sales. The whole gwen stacy mess was really the last straw for me. And, Cap's history is clouded with silliness such as Falcon being a street hoodlum- another retcon that made no sense. The resurrection of "bucky", and the tacked-on crap that he was this ultimate commando, defies the whole storyline. So kill Cap, clone him, give him laser beam vision, who gives a crap? Whats the point?

A

Article Size

I notice the size of the article is about 23kb higher than suggested, ideas how how to shorten it? Maybe make Cap in other media a sub-article, as unlike other comic characters, Cap has always been more well known on the printed page than in movies. other opinions? Impulse 05:17, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that's more of a recommendation, but I am not sure. I noticed that a few FA are pretty big, but I guess the ideal is to have it shorter. Changing passive voice sentences to active voice generally gets rid of a lot of extra words. It can probably be tightened up a bit more. (Bjorn Tipling 05:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC))

Change to televison sections

An unregistered user changed the televison section to say the cap of the series was the son of the 1940's cap. I'm not familar with it myself, but I just wanted to check that this was accurate. Anyone know? In the first film, the new Captain America was the son of the original Captain America. In the second one, he was the original Captain America, released from his ice prison. Impulse 02:26, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

In the 70s, there were two made for TV pilots about Captain America. The first involved how Steve Rogers gained his powers (which were like the Six Million Dollar Man)... his father during WW2 developed a "super-steroid" which he used, and battled people during the war. His enemies called him "Captain America" and killed him. After Steve Rogers retired from the marines, he was offered the serum developed by his father for tests. He refused, but when a bad guy nearly killed him, the serum was administered. He gained super-strength, agility, and eagle vision as a result. The government rebuilt his motorhome along with a secret compartment to hide his suped-up motorcyle, complete with his shield (bomb and bullet proof) windshield. He fought the enemy's and won as a new Captain America

The second pilot "death too soon" involved Rogers investigating a town which is both unfriendly, and hostile. As it turned out, the town was hostage to an aging compound which was first administered to the town Rogers visited. Rogers found out about it, and as Captain America obtained the antidote. In the second pilot, Roger's uniform was much more close to the comics than the original one.

GA Failing

• Fair use - all fair use image should have a Fair Use Rationale, see WP:FAIR for more information. To add a fair use rationale to an image, edit the page, and add {{Pokefair}}, details of how to implement this template are on the talk page.

• Lead - The introduction should be 2-3 paragraphs long. Please see, WP:LEAD.

• Refs should be laid as such -

<ref> [www.example.com Example title] ''Example.com''. URL Accessed [[September 16]], [[2006]].</ref>

<ref> ''Example Magazine'', pg (number). Example Publisher; Release date. ISBN example.</ref>

• • Refs should be after the full stop, and commas, like this -

.<ref> [..... 

,<ref> [..... 

• • Not -

. <ref> [.....  

</ref>. 

</ref>, 

• Other issues
  • There are no references from Novels to the end of the article
  • All game and comic names should be italicized.
  • "Appearances in other media" is somewhat under referenced.
  • As is "Alternate Captains America".

• Not a failable issue, now, but the article seems to have not enough third party neutral references, mainly since nearly all of the references are either comics or Marvel.com. It's not something I will fail it purely on, but people will bring it up at FAC. Just to warn you.

• The content overall, is good, but there are some stylistic errors, and some referencing issues in the later half of the article. Work on the points, then re-apply. Hppy editing, Highway ^Daytrippers 09:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay will work on it, thanks. (Bjorn Tipling 06:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC))

Irish people?

Can we have a cite for Cap's Irish ancestry? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 02:01, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Missing, please add

• Publication history from November 1964-present
• Character biography - very good, but probably needs at least one issue number every paragraph, serving as a cite, and some info belongs in Pub. history rather than character biography

nerdy

hasnt the capt. america picture been on this site for 3 years now.... i guess it is hard to get copyrighted material — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.12.117.5 (talk • contribs)

What about the golden age Cap?

Having had almost all of the original Timely comics, I was willing to fill it in, there being NOTHING about the golden age Timely appearances of Captain America or his REAL history in the 1940's (instead of all the stuff invented about him from the 1960's onwards.) I had done one piece and was ready to do more but noticed that my earlier information has been deleted. Obviously wiki has no interest in the golden age so it'll have to remain Captain America from 1960's onwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.12.141.234 (talk • contribs)

Ultimate Cap weight debate

OK, three different editors presumably looking at the same comic are somehow reading (and writing) two different things. Can a couple of other editors pick up this issue and see what's going on? Is it:

1.(he was shown bench pressing 545 lb in Ultimates 2 #4)
or
2.(he was shown bicep curling 545 lb in Ultimates 2 #4)
or
3.(he was shown bench pressing 1245 lb in Ultimates 2 #4)

--Tenebrae 00:27, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Intelligence

My understanding of the supersoldier formula was that it evolved Cap's abilites to peak human condition. Does that also include his intelligence, as well? Captain America is often referred to as one of the greatest tacticians in the Marvel Universe, this article cites due to his training, but have there been any references to a change in his mental prowess due to the serum? The Protocide artice cites Rogers having his intelligence increased by the serum, I was wondering if there is any written material to back that claim.

66.109.248.114 23:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Captain America Comics #1 (March 1941):

"Observe this young man closely...today he volunteered for military service, and was refused because of his unfit condition! His chance to serve his country seemed gone! Little does he realize that the serum coursing through his blood is rapidly building his body and brain tissues, until his stature and intelligience increase to an amazing degree!"

"Behold! The crowning achievement of all my years of hard work! The first of a corps of super agents whose mental and physical ability will make them a terror to spies and saboteurs!"

(The second statement was reiterated in Captain America vol. 1 #176 [August 1974])

Young Men #24 (December 1953):

"There! It is done! Now, we must wait for the reaction... the serum is coursing through your veins right now! It is building body and brain tissues... increasing your stature and intelligience to a supernormal degree!"

Captain America vol. 1 #109 (January 1969):

"He (Cap) personifies the ideal of -- mens sana in corpore sano -- a sound mind -- in a sound body!"

- Marikina

End of civil war

Reverted the vandalism, as per the notice on the civil war talk page Cactusrob 20:53, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Nomad, The Captain, "Expatriate"

Something that I feel is sorely missing is better coverage of Roger's alternate identities (Englehart's Nomad, Gruenwald's The Captain and Waid's Expatriate - I am not sure about this last one). The Captain is a significative concept that somehow managed to avoid adequate description so far. Nomad is better, but it still deserves some improvement. And to the best of my knowledge there is no reference to Waid's concept at all. BTW, the current version of the article makes it look like Jack Monroe got better and took over the Nomad identity about eight years earlier than the actually did... Luis Dantas 21:06, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Jack Flag

I realize he has his own page, but can we get anything about Jack Flag on Cap's page? Could we also consider a list of Cap's sidekick's? Not that Cap's page needs to be added onto or anything. I also went onto Bucky's article, and it had two things involving him and 'sidekickiness'. Would one more thing hurt it? (The two things involving Bucky and 'sidekickiness' were a list of sidekicks, and a category saying, 'Fictional Sidekicks'.) So, just a thought. IronMan54 16:20, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Did he die?

From what I have seen in recent new articles, Captain America died in the latest issue of the comic books. Can someone confirm this?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.28.62 (talk • contribs)

It's nothing -- lead characters "die" all the time in comics. Remember "Superman's deathy"? Cap's been "shot and killed" at least once before -- there was even a memorial service with casket in Jack Kirby's classic #112 (April 1969). Companies don't throw away corporate assets. --Tenebrae 16:50, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Confirmation at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17499797/ (RossF18 18:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

CAP IS NOT DEAD

Please. This is a standard publicity stunt, just like "Superman's death" and the "deaths" of Reed Richards, Nick Fury, etc., all of which were stretched out several months. Cap himself even "died" before (see immediately above).

We cannot report his "death" as an encyclopedic fact. We can't even say Sharon Carter shot him -- her memory might be real or it might be implanted.

We don't even know that it's really Captain America who's been shot. Nick Fury is involved, so this might very well be a Life Model Decoy.

Before putting something into an encyclopedia, which people look to for incontrovertible fact, let's wait and see what significance this may have other than as a typical plot twist. --Tenebrae 17:24, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

He's not dead. When he lost faith previously with his country he donned new costumes such as Nomad, or The Captain. I would speculate that he will be the new Ronin character, since technically he is now a samuraii (soldier) without a master (USA). Jamal7322002 17:30, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Cap's death is sufficiently believed in http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17499797/ the story. Editor in Chief confirmed it and the original writer was very displeased. While Cap may be resurected, not saying that he was shot or killed is like leaving out the resurrecting part out of Jean Gray's article. (RossF18 18:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC))

The issue in which he dies is reportedly on the stands today. We have confirmation from several news sites: http://www.wsmv.com/entertainment/11192918/detail.html http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=2930749 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/07/state/n103706S66.DTL We even have reporting from the Editor in Chief of Marvel, saying that he's dead. We should report it, and leave the current event tag up. To0n 19:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps though, due to the nature of Comic book death (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book_death) we should mention that the story is ongoing, and that the death may not be final (with a link to the article I provided). 64.218.89.101 19:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Of course he won't stay dead. But we cannot state in the article that his death may not be final. That's speculative. Report the facts and let them speak for themselves. Leave the readers to make their own inferences. Doczilla 12:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Methinks that Cap is like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail AndreasKQ 15:08, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Maybe there should be a link to the comic book death article while saying that for the moment at least he is definitely meant to be dead 80.47.8.246 17:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No. We don't know what is meant. Don't link it to the comic book death article because that's about characters who die and come back. He hasn't come back from this death. Heck, he only died yesterday. Doczilla 18:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure that "on a personal note" should be included on a wikipedia article, so I am going to remove it. If you think I am mistaken. Please comment here and explain why. Well, nevermind someone got it.Stetsonblade 21:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

If you notice when marvel talks about captain america's death they say "Yes,Captain America,Steve Rogers,is dead" Notice the fact that they specify that it is steve rogers.Meaning there could be a new Cap on the block.I think we should add this to the article.Why did someone take out the quote anyways. Parralax 23:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

We're making this a lot more complicated than it has to be. Marvel Comics says that Captain America is dead so, until they say otherwise, the guy's dead. Its Marvel's official position on the matter, so what's the problem? When and if more info is given concerning this from Marvel and/or in various comic book issues in the coming weeks and months, then the article can be adjusted appropriately.Odin's Beard 00:10, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

This is where keeping the Publication info and the fictional bio becomes especially important. Any comments by Marvel Comics employees belong in the former; what is known from the stories themselves belongs in the bio. CovenantD 02:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like a real good way to do it. For Publication info, it is a verifiable fact that Marvel has claimed, in press materials, that the company has killed "Captain America, Steve Rogers."

I believe the fictional bio, however, needs to specify that someone or something that appeared to be the Steve Rogers Captain America was shot (and was he formally pronounced dead?). That it's an LMD or a clone or some other impostor is a distinct enough possibility, historically, that it may not be Steve Rogers. --Tenebrae 03:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't know, it makes it sound like that Marvel has killed him off but then again they haven't. Stating that he's dead in the publication info and hinting that he might not be dead in the fictional bio section is conflicting. Also, coming up with a scenario to explain why he may not be dead is pure speculation at this point. Marvel has stated that Captain America is dead. They can always revive the character whenever they please but, for the time being, if Marvel says he's dead, then the article should reflect that and not two conflicting statements. Odin's Beard 04:06, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a tough one, all right. Even today's NY Times is saying (paraphrase), "Marvel says it has killed off Captain America, but he's not really dead and they're going to bring him back." Oy, why can't the dead stay dead?!   :-)   --Tenebrae 04:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I just took a line-edit pass and the Pub hist section, with details in edit summary. Didn't change any facts or footnotes, just made the writing a little more formal and less magazine-y. What does everyone think? --Tenebrae 04:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The comics has been out for less than 48 hours, so I think it's a little too soon to be treating it like old news. Neither do I think putting it in it's own section with a spoiler in the header is a good idea. It seems to place too much emphasis on a very recent events. CovenantD 05:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Kudos to my colleagues! Just want to say, the way the article is right now (at least at this particular moment!) seems pretty good: States things in a straightforward fashion while taking the particular conventions of comic-book deaths into account. I'm feeling pretty proud of all the Comics Project members' work to make it it read this well -- at least, as I said, at this particular moment! --Tenebrae 00:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

You can't kill a spirit. Captain America has always fought against the forces that threaten the liberties and freedoms of the United States. Rogers is immortal in spirit, he served in war and in peace, and always stood by the ideals of America. Sure he was Nomad for a time, but that was because of a high-level betrayal of the spirit of America. As to who is worthy to his legacy... well, he has a HUGE reputation to live up to. I'd like a novice Captain America, trained by Taskmaster (if they can get him). The shield is probably military classified, but I think if they want to reboot Captain America, they need an independent. I figure a few screw-ups by the military and the shield goes into civilian hands with somebody who knows how to use it.

Not Really Sure how Editing the Wiki goes...but I adde something new to the death section cna someone modify it and make it look better?

Wow, you all are acting like this can never be changed or updated or anything. The official position as of now is he was shot and is dead. It comes from primary sources. That is that. This isn't going to be printed or anything, it is just going to be here and able to be edited in a heartbeat if he comes back to life, or info about his funeral, or if his dog commits suicide because it can't take the loneliness, or .... 198.133.139.5 13:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Steve Rodgers is dead. Captain America will live forever. Captain America is the spirit of America... he fights the forces that threaten the liberties of America... free speech... free religion... free press.... he represnted everything America tries to represnt. He died for it. There is no better way for a hero to die than dying for the values he most stongly valued. Rogered died the way he wanted to die. We should honor his soul by thanking his sacrifies and willingness to both live and die for his country. And yes... he was not unwilling to die. When faced with a choice between his shield and uniform... he picked the values he lived by. He was willing to say to his country that there was something more. He surrendered his weapon and his costume... with honor ... he said they were his country's not his. Captain America 332 was the greatest issue ever. Rodgers picked his soul over his costume and weapon.

1602 Cap

The 1602 Cap (Rojhaz) didn't suffer from amnesia. He got dropped into the New World before the Europeans arrived and lived with the Native Americans because he didn't have another choice. When the Roanoke colony was founded, he chose to keep his identity as a Native American in order to protect Virginia Dare while not revealing himself as a time traveler or directly interfering with the molding of the country. He was quite aware of what had happened and what he was doing when he was confronted by Clea Strange on the deck of the Virginia Maid. Dyinath 20:53, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

picture in the spoiler section

seeing as that whole business is flagged as a spoiler, would it not be prudent to leave it without a spoiling image complete with spoiling caption? either that or just not have spoiler tags at all seeing as the news is all over everywhere anyone with eyes can see...80.47.8.246 17:41, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

er yeah, and if it's still in spoiler tags, isn't it even stupider to call it 'the assassination of steve rogers'?80.41.34.174 17:58, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarism

I was disappointed to read this page right after reading a story on ABC news and recognize whole sentences lifted directly. Article is here: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2934283&page=1

And at the very least, this entire bit is lifted: "was gunned down by an assassin in "Captain America Vol. 5, No. 25." The "Sentinel of Liberty" was perhaps at his lowest point — he had become an outlaw while fighting and ultimately losing a war against his fellow superheroes to protect the civil liberties of all Americans. At the time of his death, he was facing a life sentence in prison."

There's perhaps more, but I'll leave it to the Wikipedia-addicts to find. Still, I thought it was important to mention.

The plagerized passages have been removed. CovenantD 22:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Reaction to Death

With several news outlets responding to the "death" of Captian America, I think there should be a section dedicated to the mainstream media's reaction to this event. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.246.173.235 (talk) 23:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC).

That's not a bad idea. Maybe a smattering of quotes, like in the "Reception" section of movies (e.g., X-Men: The Last Stand#Reception. --Tenebrae 00:31, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Caps powers

The article says that captain America has no powers but is at peak physical condition, which is currently true but he originally had powers namely super strength it was not until the nineties ( I think) that he lost his superhuman abilities. The series avengers forever is the most recent mention of it I can think off. 63.3.21.1 03:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Fallen Son: The Death of Captain America

A head's up. An article I created. Do with it what you wish. WikiNew 17:55, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews

Captain America's death is current, on going event. An encylopedia should report it dubiously, and leave wikinews to it. Mathiastck 19:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but... it's not a real world event, it's a comic. Some version of the same problem, although usually without the media coverage, applies to many of Wikipedia's articles about ongoing comics and their characters. I'm sure that the same issue applies to many TV articles - especially anything dealing with current soap operas. Although we can't comment on the outcome, Captain America #25 has been published and isn't an ongoing event - I think we can certainly comment on that, on Marvel's statements regarding that, on the media coverage it's attracted and (with suitable caveats) on Marvel's announcements about what happens next. --Mrph 20:25, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

More to the point, we update real world people's bios when they croak, and tag them appropriately to reflect that it's a fluid situation. The media has been all over this (as you can see by my post at the bottom of this page). At the very least, the media's reaction should be documented. Jeffpw 08:27, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Reason for reversion

I've reverted the "grammar and clarity" edits (which actually went a lot further than that) since saying that something "appears" to contract something else is an interpretation, and Marvel's statement that Ms. Marvel's comment "isn't exactly what it seems" (my emphasis) conversely says its partly what it seems. I think it might be better to just report the indisputable fact, that "dialogue between two characters in another Marvel comic released the same day...indicated that Captain America was still alive."

Ms. Marvel didn't seem to indicate that. That's precisely what she was indicating. We don't know how true or not that is -- all we know, factually, is that Marvel's issue press statement in response and here's what it said. --Tenebrae 05:29, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, Joe Quesada has already said it's not true, and it will be revealed in future issues of "The Initiative" that Ms. Marvel was lying to attempt to confuse and sway Spider-Woman. However, until that's actually printed in an issue, it's not really something we should be throwing onto the page, I figure. So we'll wait for her lie to be outed before we cite it. --Bishop2 09:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, Tenebrae. As I see it, the fact worth reporting in the entry is simply that Marvel issued a press release to clarify the ambiguity introduced by 2 characters talking about Captain America in a second title. The sequence of what happened was that readers noticed the ambiguity, and Marvel reacted (almost immediately) by issuing an unambiguous statement. I apologize if you perceived that my "grammar and clarity" edit went beyond it's advertised scope; it wasn't my intention to obfuscate or mislead. One last stickler-ish grammatical point: a press release can't actually "say" anything. A press release states something, or an individual comments in one (although quoting the one cited here is difficult, since the individual commenting is not identified). A release clarifies something, conveys information, or contains certain information.--Galliaz 13:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, apparently people are going to keep on editing the article to add the "Ms. Marvel says that Cap isn't dead" information until we finally stop them from doing it permanently. So in response, I've finally added my own version which cites the Quesada interview where he said it was a lie. That should stop the madness for the time being. --Bishop2 18:01, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey, Bishop! I actually think we ought to hold the line on this one. However, I made the change before commenting here, though, so if you feel strongly the other way, let's replace the information.--Galliaz 20:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I fear that without it, people are just going to keep on adding the bit about Ms. Marvel claiming he's alive. However, we can wait and see. If it happens again, I'll go ahead and re-add the info. Until that occurs, however, I'll defer to your judgment and leave it out. --Bishop2 21:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Captain america in the 21st century

CovenantD removed a few lines I had added. Perhaps the format of the post was slightly off but what I stated was factual. >>>In a television interview with ABC News Joe Quesada stated "I don't think it (the Marvel Universe)is going to be without an Captain America, the question is who will become Captain America?"<<<

Is a fact. I have seen the interview. It is up on youtube if you want to look. >>Leading fans to speculate that a new character will take up the costume.<< another fact - fans are speculating that.

I would like you to either restore my post in a format you think would be more appropriate, or prove me wrong.

User: Wordforge(82.42.51.139 19:51, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

You need to provide more information about the interview; when it aired, at the very least. I don't know what licensing arrangement ABC has with YouTube and a link to that clip wouldn't be appropriate unless licensing were known. It could be a copyright infringement otherwise.

Fans speculate, on the other hand, is almost never an appropriate entry in this encyclopedia. Read up on attribution for more on that. A relative handful of people on some message boards somewhere doesn't rise to the level of a Reliable Source.

Finally, even if you did have appropriate sources, you've been placing it in the wrong section. Fictional biography is for what is known from the comics. Publication info is for what people in the real world have said or done about the character. CovenantD 20:09, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is the link to the interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQO9xk7bxNk

It is about 2 thirds in. I don't know how to get the date from it but I would apreciate it if you could find out and then put my Joe Quesada quote back in the appropopriate section. Thanks(82.42.51.139 20:22, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

No additional edit is necessary, I think, because this information is already present in the Publication History section of the entry. Here's the relevant paragraph: Marvel Entertainment Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada commented, however, that a Captain America comeback wasn't impossible. The character's death came as a blow to co-creator Joe Simon, who said, "It's a hell of a time for him to go. We really need him now."--Galliaz 21:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

>>No additional edit is necessary, I think, because this information is already present in the Publication History section of the entry<<

The difference is that my quote explicitly says that someone else will become Captain america. The above quote merely states that a comeback is not ruled out. (Wordforge 23:53, 11 March 2007 (UTC))

Heroes Reborn

Sorry if I've missed a discussion of this, but with all the attention on Cap's latest death some mention of the previous one, facing Onslaught, would seem relevant. Granted it was undone not long after but was surely the most significant CA story of last few years prior to recent? Happy to put in but wanted to pitch first. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ravcasleygera (talk • contribs) 01:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Assassination/"D.O.A."

"He is declared DOA after being taken to a hospital." I removed this sentence from the Assassination section because nowhere in Cap 25 does anyone, doctor or otherwise, declare Steve dead, nor is it indicated that he was dead on arrival. I am being bold with this edit but honestly this sentence is just false. STFmaryville 15:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

You're right, so I've got no problem with the edit, but I added a sentence describing what occurs in the hospital. Here's Brubaker's own description [1] from the script:

And in a room in the ER, Steve Rogers lies on a gurney, one arm hanging down, his Captain America glove visible on its hand. A white sheet has been pulled up to cover him, and blood soaks through the sheet from his belly and chest. We just see part of his face, where the sheet didn’t totally cover him up, and we see one eye, empty of life.--Galliaz 18:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Shield edit

I just added a small edit to the description of Cap's skill with his shield, mentioning that he could also perform boomerang throws with it. If it is deemed that this addition is unnecessary then kindly remove it with my apologies, but I thought I should mention the change here for completeness's sake, esp. with all the other talk going on here about the recent "death". 64.218.89.104 17:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Punisher Info

When a comic in which the Punisher dons the mask appears in print, then it'd be appropriate to add the information. Up until then, it's speculative — even though Marvel itself is the entity making the Punisher/Cap promotional art publicly available. (My reasoning being that sometimes what's inside a comic can be radically different from what is depicted on the cover.)--Galliaz 19:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree. We have no context for that costume right now. For all we know, it's an outfit Frank dons in tribute to Cap as he goes out and attempts to kill the people responsible. Doesn't mean he's going to start calling himself Captain America. All we've got is one piece of art and the text "Is this the new Captain America?" Which is a far cry from saying "This IS the new Captain America." --Bishop2 19:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

With the recent Punisher War Journal, Frank has apparently adopted Captain America's name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.121.145.234 (talk) 20:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

So did Johnny Walker (now USAgent). While Castle is a worthy wartime Captain America, Captain America always stood for the rights Americans have, like due process. Castle's history precludes it.

Castle is a good man... he had a troubled life though. His wife and children were murdred. His life is now dedicated to stopping people who destroy the lives of others. He can't kill his own pain except by taking revenge at other killers. He wants his life back! And I think he deeply wants to be Captain America. He's dead inside... but he wants to fight for what is right! Captain America is his ideal! He's also the Punisher... but he would give anything to have his life back... and be Captain America... a hero who fights for the right thing... killing is very easy... justice is hard.

Media storm

Should there not be mention in this article of the media storm that erupted upon the news of Captain America's death? It is not every comic book superhero who has his obituary published in the New York Times, and articles about the meaning of his life and death published in newspapers around the world. His death was even a newsflash on CNN. The media (and public) reaction to this tragedy (however manufactured) certainly seems worthy of mention in this article. Jeffpw 13:45, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Describing the assassination

The current description is:

Orchestrated by the Red Skull, the assassination involves Crossbones deployed as a sniper.

In addition, Dr. Faustus, posing as a S.H.I.E.L.D. psychiatrist, has manipulated Sharon Carter and implanted in her mind a hypnotic suggestion that she believes caused her to shoot Rogers at the crucial moment.

The first sentence seems unnecessarily non-direct. Under orders from the Red Skull, Crossbones shot Cap. Why not just say so? Granted there was apparently more to the plan than just Crossbones shooting him, but why the soft "involves Crossbones deployed as a sniper"? Makes it sound like maybe the sniper never actually fired. He was just deployed.

In the second part, has it been established that Carter's shooting of Cap is just her belief? As I read it in the latest issue of CA, after the assassination Carter remembers that she was the one who pulled the trigger. Perhaps it will turn out that this memory is false, but from what we've seen so far Faustus manipulated Carter into shooting Cap, not into just thinking she did. -- Sean Martin 17:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The paragraph preceding the one you quote actually provides the info that CA has been shot and killed; the one you quote informs the reader who organized the plot, and who was deployed as the shooter. So, I think the sentence works as it's constructed. The Sharon Carter sentence construction is admittedly a bit awkward, with the "she believes" insertion breaking the flow of the sentence. There's discussion of this point in the "Reason for the reversion" section of this Talk page.--Galliaz 20:45, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

But WHY did Marvel kill him off?

That's an issue that the article could and should address IF appropriate sources can be found to back up a given explanation, such as an interview with one of the writers (Brian Michael Bendis, ideally). My personal view is that Bendis and the other writers at Marvel painted themselves into a corner with Civil War and then offered up a Big-Time Death as the only way out. Being assassinated is (in some ways) better than rotting in prison for the rest of your life, which is what Rogers was heading toward. I mean, look at what being assassinated did for JFK in the popular imagination. My guess is that powers-that-be at Marvel will allow Steve Rogers the dignity of remaining dead, rather than having him dragged before a judge and hauled off to prison (after all, that's been done -- with Daredevil -- already). RobertAustin 12:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

That's fine, but after the first sentence this is original research and essay speculation that doesn't really belong on this talk page. --Tenebrae 14:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

In comic books, there is ALWAYS a way out. I give you to the count of 10 to name 5 Villians who have escaped from the Vault. Count up? Thought so! Rogers actually turned in his costume and shield, as well as his back-pay as a solider in the classic 332.

Heroes die forever... Villians find a way out of death. Captain America noted it once. However... Steve Rodgers is dead. However, the spirit of Captain America is always alive. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'd like to see Peter Parker - Spider-Man take up his title. He is a worthy replacement. Frank Castle is Captain America at war. Spider-Man hates violence and war, but will fight for what is right.

Request for comment: "Purported deaths of CA" section

As per Wikipedia dispute-resolution policy, User:Tenebrae is asking for a formal Request for Comment regarding rvs and returns of section created by 194.46.22.91 on March 27 in Trivia section, moved by Tenebrae to its own section on April 3.

Statements by editors involved in dispute

• Numerous editors have created, maintained and agreed on the validity of this section, which adds historical subtext and necessary perspective to worldwide-reported news of Captain America's death. To general public unfamiliar with comics' stylistic conventions, this puts his death/"death" in context. Other editors who have worked on it include 69.156.48.250, User:UltimatePyro, User:Sean D Martin, and User:Galliaz. Only one editor has disagreed with this consensus. --Tenebrae 03:29, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

• If we are going to start about every time a marvel character dies, then we are going to have to put it in ever single page liek that, which is going to be alot of space. This is the marvel U, people(at least they did) die and come back to life ALOT. I will agree that we do need something about the part with world wide media coverage, but going down a list about every time he has died it just wastefull.Phoenix741 17:51, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

COMMENTS

• The section seems worthy of inclusion, to me. (I just wish we had citations to issue numbers for each occurrence.)--Galliaz 10:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
• The section is worthy of inclusion. In fact, I wanted that very information just a few days ago and wish it had already been in the article then. It helps put the current death into context. It can always be removed later when Cap's death is no longer a current topic, but we can't look into that crystal ball right now. He's dead right now. This is relevant right now. Doczilla 19:03, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
• The section should be dropped. Some of these 'deaths' are admitted deceptions instigated BY Cap, and others are simple cover hypes. If we include this here, we'd have to include one for every character, and that gets crufty fast. Those 'deaths' which are notable are demonstrably so, as seen in external media coverage, or by a long-term in-universe belief that the character is dead (Jean Grey in the 70's, for example.) To include every single time cap may have 'died' for a panel, or appeared to die in the last panel, only to hop up on page 2 of the next issue, is absurd. Marvel's revolving door of death's ridiculous. Even Uncle Ben and Bucky are back. Count me as opposing the section as non-notable cruft. The entire section could be summarized as 'Although Cap has appeared to die in previous issues, none of theese earlier deaths has stuck, being revealed inthe next panel, page, or issue as a trick of some sort.' ThuranX 03:07, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
• Why the HELL is this section still here? As said above, it sets precedent and is insane to include deaths that were undone on the subsequent page or the 1964 death which was a retcon death proven false in the SAME ISSUE.

Cause the majority of the people who voiced their thoughts wanted it to stay, if more people said to remove it, then it would be gone.Phoenix741 22:46, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Adventures of Captain America

I've noticed that some of the information is referenced to the Captain America: Sentinel of Liberty mini-series. However, the Marvel Continuity Project, and many fans actually don't accept this series as within the general continuity of Captain America as it contradicts information found elsewhere (and yes so does Winter Soldier, and most accounts of how Cap got frozen, but that's by the by). So should this mini-series really be being cited for proof of things in the generally accepted continuity?

82.35.186.27 16:30, 13 April 2007 (UTC)JGN 13 April 2007

Yes. At the time of release, AOCA was not solicited as being out of continuity (unlike DC comics' Elseworld titles). There is an ample amount of conflicting information found in the entire history of Captain America (e.g., Winter Soldier as you have already mentioned) and most comics, which is unfortunate, but fan outcry generally not prevent this from happening or remedy past mistakes. The responsibility falls on the writer, in my humble opinion, to carefully examine continuity and to have a certain level of respect for the title he/she is working on, predecessors (i.e., authors) who have contributed to the character and of course, the fans. If Winter Soldier can be used as a proper reference, so too can AOCP. Since when is "by the by" a valid excuse for breaks in continuity?

--ArmsHeldOut 19:54, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Screm them. Steve Rogers is the real Captain America. Despite his being born of World War 2 he hated violence. His weapon was a shield... an instrument of protection, not a weapon of violence. He was the true spirit of America.. he hated war but was willing to fight because good people have to sometimes go to war. He hated war. He was just very good at it...

Fictional artists

A big part of cap's idea was that was was a scrawny art student who turned super solider. Also he did try to do art in the NA Civil War arc. And there were ideas that he drew his own comic book. Wouldn;t that mean he is a Fictional artist, and thus he needs to be in the cat?Phoenix741 00:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Marvel Milestone

The thing is, we don't know which is the original cover, or if, like Marvel Comics #1, there were two covers. (MC1, an original copy of which I had the privilege to hold in my hand and look through a few months ago, had two printings, one dated Oct. 1939, one Nov. 1939.)

The cover of Cap #1 comes from an unknown source. (See here.) Unless someone who owns a copy scanned it in, there's no way of knowing if this is an original cover or, more likely, that of a reprint itself. I've seen scanned covers of Fantastic Four #1 with no police officer in the background -- yet the comic itself, which I own, and other copies of which I've seen, does have a police officer in the background. Scans of covers are tricky things.

The big point is the official postal indicia inside the Marvel Milestone comic. It says it was reprinted from issue #000. Marvel Comics is in a better position than anyone to know how that first issue was registered, and since it wasn't uncommon for early comics publishers to release an issue without a number on the cover (like Marvel Comics #1, or the first issue of The Human Torch) so that it can could then gauge demand before publishing another.

The Milestone Edition may actually be the real cover, and until collectors and historians can definitively say which — or both — both possibilities need to be in an encyclopedia entry about Captain America. --Tenebrae 13:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted this out. Until someone can definitely debunk the given first edition cover, this reads more like bad bookkeeping on Marvel's part, with regard to the milestone edition. It's inclusion smacks of Original Research, because we're making assumptions about the images and our comparison of the image with the interior text of the reprint. I'm not faulting anyone, nor accusing, like it's crazy conspiracy OR, it's just simple unverifiable OR. The best solution is to validate the ORIGINAL cover image, and go from there. a lot of those Milestone edition type things are more or less promotional pieces, run from time to time as novelties, not as major collectables, and the dept. handling that sort of promo is less likely to pay full attention to it. Certainly, they didn't ACTUAALLY number it 000, but rather, if anything it was 'unnumbered' or 'unenumerated', so to call it 000 seems like some sort of redactive numbering system. Until we can be clear about the differences and document them, this has elements of OR, and probably TRIVIA too. ThuranX 05:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I think the Marvel Milestone edition may actually have gotten it right — just as Marvel Comics #1 came out cover-dated Oct. 1939 and had a second printing dated Nov. 1939 (I once held a copy of the latter in my hands, and leafed through it — an incredible thrill), it's quite possible that the cautions Goodman released an unnumbered issue of Captain America to test the waters, and then a "#1" issue when he'd committed to an ongoing series.

The postal indicia is too specific, and Marvel too big a worldwide conglomerate with a vast legal department, to assume they'd make such a glaring error. Where did the Milestone cover come from, after all? It's unlikely someone at Marvel deliberately went in to remove the "#1" and make other changes.

The reasonable conclusion isn't that all those lawyers and editors and art directors all made the same series of mistakes somehow, but that that was the original cover — and that creates an historical distinction that can't go unaddressed in a reference source. --Tenebrae 17:16, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually, drawing such conclusions is a definite violation of OR. Like I said above, I'm not looking to lay blame, break AGF or anything. I simply believe that there is enough problem here that we need some better citation to solve this. Like I said above, the Milestone imprint is a reprints gimmick, and is the sort of place where such foul-ups would occur. I also note color changes between the two in the banner. the 'original'(presumed) has blue stripes, the 'reprint' (Milestone) has all red. To my mind, it's much less likely that they'd have retooled the cover back in 1941, when the industry was smaller, and costs for such things higher. (I am aware the same argument works in reverse, vis-a-vis storage of plates and so on), and more likely that in order to avoid confusion about the date of issue of the reprint, that was obscured in the reprint. I'm going to try to find some info on this to settle this either way. (I'm not particularly rooting either way, but I want anything we put up there to be clear and unambiguous.) I'd ask you to try for the same. I'll leave it up for the time being, but if we can't find anything supporting your contention by Sunday evening, I ask that you accept my taking it down. This gives both of us about 5 days to work on solving this with citation. ThuranX 21:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

That's cool, and I can appreciate the request for substantiating documentation. I don't believe it's OR since we're citing published postal indicia that's factually at odds with established information, but what you ask for is certainly reasonable, as is the timeframe. You're very good to work with, and I'll all for handling this the way you suggest. Cool collaborating with you, man! --Tenebrae 21:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Good to work with you too. Here's what I've got thus far:

• A fan site image which includes date. (But could easily be our image source, so may be moot?).

• This Marvel publication challenges the 'Marvel knows best' idea, or at least their consistency. (also, not our source.)

• This auction house image has a fully graded sealed version, with blue stripes and date on cover.

That's three with some google time. Thoughts on these? ThuranX 22:44, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

My thoughts? I'd love to have an 8.5-grade Captain America Comics #1!

Good finds; that's part one of the search, confirming the blue-and-white cover with the month and issue number. I still need to nose around and see if there's an authoritative source anywhere for that being a second printing. It may very well be as you said — a reprint screw-up on the cover image. That indicia, though ... if I were Ralph Dibney, my nose would be twitching...!

Thanks for your time and effort so far on this! --Tenebrae 02:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Glad to, I'm going to leave this in your hands for that part, my Real life's going to be full for a few days. And did they do much second printings back then? ThuranX 02:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

All I know for sure is Marvel Comics #1, but then, record-keeping for what were considered the equivalent of Bazooka Joe bubblegum comics were spotty at best!

And indeed, I've found nothing about two printings at the [Grand Comics Database], The Unofficial Handbook of Marvel Comics Creators, or the [Jack Kirby Museum page for Cap Comics #1. This follows your thinking, though I'd like to check out some print sources, too.

Oh, I know about taking time from Real Life. My Real Life's threatening to never speak to me again if I keep Wiki'ing....! --Tenebrae 02:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Toys

Why is there no mention of Mego Captain America? If I'm not mistaken, this was the first toy of him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haven13 (talk • contribs)

It's probably worth mentioning, but we'd need a citation. The character was popular for years before MEGOs though, and might not be the first. ThuranX 02:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Ultimate Cap Picture

This has annoyed me for awhile now, I'm not sure why a picture showing Ultimate Cap looking his most 616-like was chosen but is there any way we can get a new picture? Personaly I vote for a picture of Cap jumping out of that chopper to go beat up pym or perhaps a picture of Cap walking away from his fight with Pym victorius both of which are from Ultimates 1 vol. 2. Whatever replacement picture is chosen is perhaps an argument for another time but the current picture just wont do imo. I mean the picture thats up right now isn't even of the mask-helmet variety which is what we see him in most, its the plain mask variety. Aside from the missing head wings you would think your looking at a picture of the 616 cap, The picture thats up should better convey the visual differences between the two. I'll give it 3 or more days if no one objects im just going to change it myself. Bushido Brown 07:34, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Irony:

The irony of the transformation of an art student into a Nordic Übermensch fighting Nazism and Fascism, may have not been obvious to 1940s readers.

While I agree that irony exists, I'd like a citation for demonstration that the creators knew it, and then we can avoid the specualtion about reader awareness. For now, I'll leave it in, but can we get to work on this? It's the sort of speculation WP avoids, and could help get this article up to GA. ThuranX 21:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Finally laid to rest

I have the news that Captain America is buried in Arlington National Cemetery. An issue of his funeral, called Fallen Son, will be released the day after the 4th of July. To find out more, click on this link: Captain America to be buried at Arlington. Man, it has taken a few months to come up with a burial scene not unlike the Anna Nicole Smith case, right? --Angeldeb82 19:18, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

citation for use

regarding the film: http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?id=41910

ThuranX 15:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Done! --Tenebrae 15:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

I'm moving this here unless someone is able to properly intergrate this. This article is very good: let's not spoil it. Alientraveller 21:09, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

• Peter Fonda's character in the 1969 feature film Easy Rider is nicknamed Captain America. According to the "making of" feature on the DVD edition of the film, director Dennis Hopper described the two motorcyclists of the film to actor Robert Walker, Jr., who said "they sound like Captain America and Bucky", and Hopper liked the name.
• In the 1997 film Men in Black, Will Smith's character refers to an overzealous Army lieutenant as "Captain America".
• In Armageddon, Rockhound refers to Colonel Sharp as "Captain America", saying: "Captain America here blew the landing by 26 miles!"
• In Master of Disguise, the title character punches the main villain at the end of the movie while disguised as Captain America.
• In Jingle All the Way, Jamie's bedroom wall holds a mural of Captain America deflecting bullets with his shield.
• In The Pursuit of Happyness, actor Jaden Christopher Syre Smith carries around a MEGO Captain America doll for the majority of the film.
• In Cannonball Run II, Victor Prinzim/Captain Chaos (played by Dom DeLuise) impersonates "Captain USA" in the film, but in the blooper reel during the credits calls himself "Captain America".
• In Talladega Nights, a young Ricky Bobby wears a Captain America T-Shirt.
• In Fun with Dick and Jane, Jim Carrey is seen wearing a Captain America T-Shirt while at a buffet.
• In Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker, scenarios entertained for the Joker's return include "suspended animation due to floating around in a frozen block of ice," an homage to Captain America's method of revival.
• On Stephen Colbert's show The Colbert Report he has a replica of Captain America's shield behind his desk.

Music

The phrase "Captain America" has been used to refer in various ways to American patriotic values, especially in rock music.

• The 1978 Kinks song "Catch Me Now, I'm Falling", about the ailing U.S. economy in the late 1970s, refers to "Captain America calling".
• The jam band moe. composed a song called "Captain America" which deals with Captain America as an authority figure.
• Jimmy Buffett recorded a song in 1970 titled "Captain America," offering a tongue-in-cheek tribute to the hero, replete with a kazoo solo and the phrase, "He wears a mask, his clothes are weird, and some folks call him hokey. But he is hip, he just cannot dig the Okie from Muskogee."
• The Guns N' Roses' song "Paradise City" also contains a reference to Captain America ("Captain America's been torn apart, now he's a court jester with a broken heart.").
• The Roadrunner United album features a song titled "I Do not Wanna Be (A Superhero)" written by Michale Graves & Matthew Heafy. It contains the line, "They came from sea and they from the sky, Captain America is going to die."
• The 2003 album Cyclorama by the rock band Styx features a song called "Captain America"
• Down By Law recorded a song "Superheroes Wanted" on their WindwardTidesandWaywardSails album, which opens with the line, "Captain America, can you come clean up this place?" and ends with the line, "Steve Rogers, where are you?"
• The blink-182 song "Feeling This" from the band's 2003 self-titled album opens with Captain America saying "Get ready for Action!"
• The MU330 song "Captain" on the band's 1994 album Press relates the return of Captain America from retirement to battle the Red Skull.
• Daniel Johnston references Captain America in much of his artwork and early recordings.

Other

• Early Doonesbury strips have Zonker Harris referring sardonically to B.D., captain of the football team on which they both play, as "Cap'n America sir!"
• Mike Towle's 2002 biography of Roger Staubach is entitled "Captain America", as this was one of the Hall of Fame quarterback's nicknames while playing for the Dallas Cowboys.
• The Marine Recon unit in Evan Wright's 2005 nonfiction bestseller Generation Kill derisively referred to their overzealous commander as Captain America.
• Comedian Bill Cosby discussed his old automobile, with "Captain America" proudly written on its side, in his recorded routine "$75 Car".
• In DC Comics, the hero General Glory is an analogue to Captain America.
• During the Nevermind tour Kurt Cobain sometimes wore a Captain American shirt. On the UK tour, the band Eugenius, then known as Captain America, opened the shows.
• In The Tick series, there have been several Captain America archetypes, including American Maid for the FOX Kids animated series and Captain Liberty for the FOX live-action series.
• In the Wildstorm universe, the superhero team the Americans, a pastiche of the Avengers, were led by the Commander, a Captain America analogue.
• Jason Acuña (Wee Man of Jackass) wears a Captain America outfit in the Jackass movie and in some episodes of the series.
• When Rob Liefeld left Image Comics to found Awesome Comics, he created the character Agent America, nearly identical to Captain America. When Marvel threatened legal action, Awesome Comics purchased the rights to the defunct Harvey Comics' 1950s character Fighting American, another character that bore a striking resemblance to Captain America and was created by the same team, Joe Simon & Jack Kirby.
• On Oct. 12, 2004, following the death of Superman actor Christopher Reeve, the New York Post ran an editorial cartoon tribute with Captain America, Batman, and Spider-Man at Reeve's graveside.
• In South Park's episode "Hell on Earth 2006" one of the Satan's servants wears a Captain America costume.
• On Dec. 7, 2006, NFL Network commentator Adam Schefter referred to Tony Romo, quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys football team — nicknamed "America's Team" — as Captain America.
• Steve Davis is referred to as "Captain America" by Aurora in the second episode of University Place, in reference to his all-American looks.
• Mixed martial arts fighter and Ultimate Fighting Championship Hall of Famer Randy Couture is sometimes referred to as "Captain America."
• Professional soccer player Claudio Reyna was nicknamed "Captain America" during his time in England, due to his status as captain of the United States National Team.