Talk:William Howard Taft

Not Actually the President?

The sidebar referring to his term in office as President lists Warren G. Harding as President.

Slight confusion

I am a little confused. The article talks about someone named Alphonso Hranchak. He is mentioned in Taft's early years section. Who is this? ~~Kimberly H ~~

Acting President???

In the article it says that when Roosevelt was away Taft was in effect acting President. Wouldn't Vice President Charles Warren Fairbanks have been effect the acting President in Roosevelt's absence. Was Fairbanks absent as well if so the article should make that clear.--The Shadow Treasurer 04:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

vice presidents were nobodies before the 1950s. TR trusted Taft and was setting him up for the presidency. Rjensen 04:35, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Trivia section

Trivia sections on Wikipedia are considered very bad form. All imformation within this section should be dispersed to apropriate places within the article. --The_stuart 18:31, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Here's the thing about trivia, there are some truthful things that occured that are listed in this. Prehaps the term, "trivia" isn't approate, however, this list of facts is something that a reader can skim through and read. I think a decent amount of views come from the fact that he was stuck in a bathtub, not the fact that he was a Supreme Court Chief Justice on a case like US v. Myers (I may have screwed up that order). Yanksox 18:34, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Danny, thanks for adding those tables. The format works great on my Opera browser, and I enjoy using the links the table provides. --Ed Poor

Thanks, Ed. Eventually, I hope to get to adding some information to the articles too. Most of them are pretty scanty. Danny

By providing the framework, you create an inviting and hospitable "home" for others to contribute their "homework" as well. Structure is essential. Ed Poor

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First Lady Helen Herron Taft was originally Helen Herron before marriage to William Howard Taft. Reason of edit: full maiden name appears in most presidential bios. --65.73.0.137

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I stumbled on a piece by Terry Jones which made me realise WHT has a slew of descendants warranting their own articles; cf Disinfopedia on WHT4. 142.177.24.97 16:16, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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The links here (and in other articles) indicate that Bob Taft is Robert Taft II, but the Bob Taft page says he is Robert Taft III, and wouldn't Robert Taft II = Robert Taft Jr.? Maybe I'm wrong, but if I'm not then this is an error in not only this article but several others. :) Tim

Well, since nobody commented in a couple days, I went ahead and made the change, and will try and change it wherever else I can find it, too. Tim 16:22, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

Didn't see this until now. Sorry I didn't comment earlier. Robert Alphonso Taft I's son was just Robert Taft. He is generally referred to as "Robert Taft Jr." for the sake of convenience, but, really, he is not a "Jr.," because his name is not identical to his father's (he didn't have the middle name "Alphonso"). His son is Robert Alphonso Taft II, not III, because he was named after his grandfather. In this case, II does not equal Jr. So I changed this back wherever I found it. Acsenray 15:15, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. Looks like you found all the edits I made. Tim 15:18, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Revert and capitalization...

I stumbled on the fact that the Cabinet box was whacked. I reverted back to the "12:39, 7 May 2005" version and then went back and manually added what had been changed. The one exception to this is that I did not capitalize "armed forces" which I think is a generic term and not a proper noun. If you know better than I on this, feel free to capitalize it. Wikibofh 15:59, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Insomnia

I spent two years researching Taft's sleep problems, but never ran across a mention of post-presidential insomnia. If someone has a reference, that would be great (and very interesting to me), but if not, I would be inclined to strike the phrase about insomnia. July 14, 2005.

• No source I know of. Be bold and go ahead and remove it.  :) Wikibofh 03:45, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

• Great advice - thanks for the tip and the boldness pointer. Revision has been made. July 28, 2005

Question

I am researching any information on a gift of an origional Bronze Remington (statue) that was given to the Secretary of War in 1904, should be Taft or Root. Anyone have information??

Unsigned comment by LouisSexton@Comcast.Net

Clarification on Chief Justice quotes

This article has two sentences which are seemingly contradictory. In the section on Taft's appointments to the Supreme Court it says that Edward Douglass White was "the first Chief Justice to be elevated from Associate". In the section on Taft's appointment as Chief Justice it says "He was also the first chief justice without any prior high court experience." The second sentence would imply that every Chief Justice prior to Taft was elevated from Associate Justice to Supreme Court.

So, which is it? Does "prior high court experience" in the second sentence refer to some other sort of "high court" or "experience"? Dharris 15:59, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Scanning the wikipedia articles of White and the eight Chief Justices prior to White, it's clear that the first sentence is more accurate. Given that "prior high court experience" was not adequately explained by whomever added that, I'm going to remove that sentence. Dharris 16:05, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Your action is correct, that second statement is obviously not true. NoSeptember 16:09, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Fatal error: Call to a member function on a non-object in /usr/local/apache/common-local/php-1.5/extensions/LuceneSearch.php on line 402

what do i do??!!  i really need some help

Last President to have facial hair

Lincoln was the first bearded US President, Grant the first to have both a mustach & beard ,how about Taft the last President to have facial hair (in this case, a mustache). Since Taft every US President has been clean shavened. 25 October 2005

• I agree. Great trivia. Go ahead and insert it. I can even provide a book reference for it. :) Wikibofh 03:40, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Minor Change

Corrected the spelling of "graduated" in "Education" -- NitishP

• Nice catch. Thanks. Wikibofh 15:44, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Chief Justice

I added a chief justice box to make continuing along that path easier. It was really strange to be able to click successor on chief justices and suddenly I had a president successor as my option.

"I don't remember that I ever was President"

Did he say this or write it - the sources I'm finding are split... also, I'd like to nail down a date for this quote. BD2412 T 20:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Skull & Bones

An anonymous user has been insisting today on adding Skull & Bones club membership information to this article on Taft. The information has nothing to do with Taft himself, and it already exists in the Skull & Bones articles. A couple of us have reverted these edits, and I've left a message on the IP's talk page. With luck and reason, this won't continue. I've seen similar debates in articles on other historical figures, and in the end, keeping the historical articles clutter free has won out. However, I welcome any and all discussion and consensus building here. Rklawton 22:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Dubious fact

I removed this item because I cannot find a town or county with these names. Maybe someone else can help correct this.

• The town of Siloam, Michigan was re-named "Taft" in his honor, as was a nearby school. This Losco County town was a flagstop on the Rose City branch of the Detroit and Mackinac Railway.

Taft's First Election

I removed the reference to Taft as "uncharismatic" and softened the phrase about him being politically "inept". Taft was neither inept or uncharismatic, but suffered more than a bit in comparison to TR.Markp6

7th inning stretch--myth

"A second Taft myth had him inadvertently creating the seventh-inning stretch. Nice, but untrue. More than forty years earlier, in 1869, Harry Wright of the Red Stockings wrote to a friend about a local custom: "The spectators all arise between halves of the seventh innings, exent their legs and arms and sometimes walk about. In so doing they enjoy the relief affoded by relaxation from a long posture on hard benches."" from Baseball: The Presidents' Game by William B. Mead 1997. Page 27. Rjensen 23:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The seventh-inning stretch entry contains more information that seems to contradict the Taft story. Perhaps this could be left in as folklore, with the disclaimer that it's just a myth? Markzero 15:48, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

done Rjensen 16:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Schools

* There is an elementary school in Riverside, CA named after him. Taft (William Howard) Elementary.

• There is a high school in Woodland Hills, CA named after him. (William Howard) Taft High School.[1]

There are probably hundreds of WH Taft public schools in the US, why single out and name these two? --NEMT 00:20, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Descriptors

I had added to the initial description in the article's introduction several descriptors that were removed: "progressive conservative" and "staunch advocate of pacifisim". I am not sure why, as they were very accurate. President Taft was not a per se "leader of the conservative wing of the Republican party." He consistently described his political philosophy as "progressive conservatism:" erring on the side of caution but always with a mind toward civic, economic, and social progress. He believed in equal rights for all people, he abhorred discrimination, and he desired the end of Jim Crow, antisemitism, war, and barriers due to social and ethnic concerns. At the same time, however, he believed that refined capitalism and traditional civilization were the best ways to achieve these ends. As such, he was not merely "conservative," but he was (as, again, he described himself), a "progressive conservative." I have reinserted this language and believe that it should remain. As well, he WAS a pacifist. When WWI broke out in Europe, he headed the "league to enforce peace." Just listen to his 1909 speech about the horrors of war, in which he called for the end of war forever. Of course, when WWI did break out he believed in total commitment - not for war's sake, but so that the war could be over as soon as possible and with the fewest casualties and horrors possible. He consistently advocated peace and the worldwide abolition of war. If this isn't pacifism, I don't know what is. I have reinserted this descriptor and believe that it, too, should remain. 65.28.2.172 16:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

"progressive conservatism" sounds odd without explanation. In 1911+ he was indeed the leader of the conservative wing of the party, whipping TR and emphasizing judicial power. He was Secty of War who always called for a powerful military. He (and the pacifists) would have been stunned to hear him called a pacifist. That is very different from trying to end wars. (Addams and Ford were pacifists.) Rjensen 20:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Rjensen, you aren't accounting for WHY Taft called for a powerful military. He only believed in prosecuting a war if it were a "necessity," and he struggled long and hard to come up with reasons that WWI was a "necessity" (promulgating them in a document in which he explicitly refers to himself as a "pacifist." Generally, he summed up his beliefs thusly: "I am willing to admit that war has accomplished much in the progress of the world. I am willing to admit that there are certain crises in the forward march of Christian civilization that perhaps could not have been met than in any other way than by the sword. I am willing to admit that war develops certain heroic traits in men and furnishes a test for the evidence of the highest character. Perhaps too, it trains and disciplines people. But the other side of the picture justifies the prayer of every man, of every civilized man, that war should be abolished and that the suffering, cruelty, corruption and demoralization that follow in its train should be, as far as we can bring it about, lifted as a burden from the human race. It is our duty to take every legitimate and proper step we can to persuade the nations of the world to settle their controversies in some other way." If this isn't pacifism, I don't know what is.

As for "progressive conservatism," TR never referred to himself as a "conservative;" he referred to himself as a "progressive." Taft, however, referred to his philosophy as "progressive conservatism" and "practical reform" so as to distance himself from "conservatism." Taft himself labeled his sociopolitical and judicial philosophies thusly: "I am a lover of the Constitution and a believer in progressive conservatism." (Burton, Taft, Holmes, and the 1920s Court, p. 127). So, to say he headed merely the "conservative wing" carries too much baggage, especially in today's popular sociopolitical clime. Taft was an unideological believer in historical contextualism and rationalism and reliance on tradition, but also believed that sincere progress in the equality of and peace among all men could be derived from changes erring on the side of caution. As he stated, "Substantial progress toward better things can rarely be taken without developing new evils requiring new remedies." (Taft, Our Chief Magistrate and His Powers - 1916). This is his "progressive conservatism," which is a far different thing than mere "conservatism." 65.28.2.172 21:22, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Taft as pacifist--I think it's the wrong word. He was a peace advocate. Most statesmen call for war only when it is absolutely necessay. In 1910 era Pacifists said that peace is absolutely necessary and never called for war. The "pacifists" were numerous and well organized in 1900-1918 and they distrusted Taft and even opposed his arbitration treaties. Taft is not even mentioned in A World without War: How U.S. Feminists and Pacifists Resisted World War I. by Frances H. Early 1997. DeBenedetti says "Tellingly, prewar peace advocates backed President Taft's arbitration treaties with an unsettling ambivalence." The Peace Reform in American History p 89.

so let's call Taft a "peace advocate". Rjensen 22:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Come now, Rjensen, that's ahumanistic. If Taft sincerely believed that he was a pacifist (which he clearly did), who cares what his contemporaries thought of him? Of COURSE prewar peace advocates were uneasy about being on the same side as a Yalie Republican! Taft's party had only recently waged the Spanish-American War, so of course when he, of the same party, comes out in 1909 and says "It is our duty to take every legitimate and proper step we can to persuade the nations of the world to settle their controversies in some other way," I don't blame them for being skeptical. Gandhi's conteporaries decried him as "a little colored man in a loincloth;" does that then become all he was? Hell, Hitler was Time's "Man of the Year" in 1933. What one's contemporaries think of one is not necessarily what one is. The same is true of Taft. The Wikipedia article on "pacifism" defines the topic as, "the opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes. Pacifism covers a spectrum of views ranging from the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved, to absolute opposition to the use of violence, or even force, in any circumstance." Taft believed that international disputes could and should peacefully be resolved and opposed war or violence as a means of settling disputes. In so doing, he called himself a "pacifist." Thus, he was a pacifist. Certainly, include the extra descriptor that his contemporaries may not have accepted him as such, but to say he wasn't a pacifist because his CONTEMPORARIES didn't think so does not seem reasonable. Leave it be as it is. 65.28.2.172 13:29, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Taft?

Since Taft had an LL.D. from Yale (for which he wrote a dissertation), in addition to his LL.B. (what we'd call a "JD" today), and ordinarily people with LL.D.s (or JSDs or SJDs or whatever we sometimes call them today) are called "Doctor", because it's basically a Ph.D. in Law, shouldn't he be Dr. William Howard Taft? Strange you never see this. Perhaps he characteristically downplayed his education. 65.28.2.172 13:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

He was also President William Howard Taft and Chief Justice William Howard Taft. I'm sure Taft thought those titles gave him more than enough distinction; everyone knew what he had accomplished. Only self-important egomaniacs like Idi Amin tend to affix every title they can claim in front of their name (His Excellency President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada). Jsc1973 03:37, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

"Trivial things"

Rjensen, Taft's 1930 New York Times obituary discusses his rowing and wrestling at Yale. Dunn's 1908 biography discusses his father's opposition to Walter Camp's invitation for him to join the fledgling football squad. Yale's archives DO show that he received an honorary LLD in 1893. He DID receive his LL.B. from Cincinnati in 1880. He WAS Dean and Professor of Law at Cincinnati between 1896 and 1900, as Cincinnati Law School's archives show. These events DID happen. They ARE true. They all even are cited to the proper authorities. You are not the arbitrator of Taft's history, nor is Pringle (have you even read Dunn's very comprehensive, pre-presidential biography?). These are not "trivial events." Taft's activities at Yale, his degrees, and his first deanship/professorship are all worthy facts to be included in this biography. Moreover, most of these facts have been in here for months without anyone except you objecting to them. There is no good reason to do away with them. What's more, why de-wikify what you have de-wikified? Spain, the bar, and prosecutor are all proper wikifications. Please provide justificiation for your proposed changes. 65.28.2.218 20:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

a million things happened in Taft's very busy lifetime. The job of Wiki editors is to decide the important ones to include, and which do not make the cut. That means 99% of the events mentioned by Dunn or Pringle have to be left out. Rjensen 16:04, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

You said "we can safely leave out things that did not happen," but those things DID happen! Walter Camp DID want Taft to join the squad, but the elder Taft disapproved (Dunn, chapter 1). Taft WAS an accomplished wrestler and rower (obituary, Dunn). Fine, leave out the stuff about his honorary degree (presidents do accumulate many), but there is no good reason to leave out the information about his Yale activities. Yes, Wiki editors must decide what to include, but you are not the ONLY Wiki editor, Rjensen. This article is not your proprietary page. You are the only one who ever has objected to his Yale activities being included in this article, and they have been there for a long time without any other objection whatsoever. Because you have presented no good reason to leave them out, they rightly should be included. 134.193.247.248 16:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything wrong with including such information. They certainly don't detract from the article that I could see. At the very worse, one can always create another article to focus on that time of Taft's life. The George Washington article is a prime example of this. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 16:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

it's a matter of deciding what's important. If people have 5 minutes to read the article and they get loads of little things they will miss the big picture.Rjensen 16:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the details add flavor to his character, I'm in favor of leaving them in. Wjhonson 17:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Rjensen, these "details" should not be moved to the "trivia" section. The article is in chronological order. You are the only editor who objects to them at all. Because they concern Taft's time as an undergraduate at Yale, they are appropriately placed chronologically in the portion of the article about his time at Yale. Leave them be! 65.28.2.218 00:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Last president to serve in a public office after leaving office?

I believe that the statement that Taft "thus far, is also the last President to hold a public office after his Presidential term ended" may not be correct, depending on the meaning of "public office." See Herbert Hoover#Post World War II. Newyorkbrad 05:48, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

College days

As his official biographer states, with citations: "Taft was not athletic. He was not on the crew. He played neither baseball nor football...."I was urged to offer myself for the crew," Taft recalled, "but my father had other ideas which I induced him to modify with respect to my brother, who came after me, and who made the crew." 17 "[fn = G. W. Burton to Pringle, Oct. 18, 1933. Taft's statement in American Physical Education Review, April, 1916.] The Life and Times of William Howard Taft: A Biography. Volume: 1 by Henry F. Pringle 1939. Page 38. A serious biography trumps an anonymous newspaper obit or popular writer who garbled the story into football (long before Yale played football). Rjensen 18:32, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

"Eaten by wolves"

In a Saturday Night Live piece from 1996, Dana Carvey did an impersonation of Tom Brokaw pretaping news tags prior to a vacation. Doing a whole series on the death of Gerald Ford, he balked when the tag was "Tragedy today as former president Gerald Ford was eaten by wolves. He was delicious." The off camera director tells him "Taft was eaten by wolves." This is the inspiration for recent vandalism. Wainstead 17:33, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

The montage

I downloaded the montage but it seems that it is corrupted, it only plays the first like 20 secs and then cuts out. Any way we can get the original and post it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.200.162.135 (talk) 05:55, 17 January 2kjhbikulhguoyhuohyouiyhy7rf4rsw34ws57t6rf86yutgo9uhjp;oik9u;o89yt78rt76467tygbjhgvytdfgujfgvyihguytfgukytg

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007 (UTC).

Did Lafollete really have a cheese fetish

Wtf?! That seems kinda strange to be true. So I wanted to see if it really was, or just some idiot editing this again. So... feedback please!

Baby Ruth

The trivia piece about Baby Ruth claims that the candy bar was named for Taft's daughter, when in fact the candy bar is allegedly named after Grover Cleveland's daughter. Whether or not Taft was fond of the candy bars or not, I have no idea.

Unsigned comment by lonnold@yahoo.com

Moved here from article

Presidential and Supreme Court trivia

• At 6 feet, and weighing over 350 pounds (159 kg), Taft was the heaviest President, although Lincoln, Lyndon Johnson, Jefferson, Arthur, George H.W. Bush, Franklin Roosevelt, Clinton, Washington, Jackson, and Reagan were taller. Buchanan, Ford, Garfield, Harding, Kennedy, Monroe, and Tyler all were as tall as Taft.
• Taft's weight caused him to become stuck in the bathtub in the White House several times, prompting the installation of a new bathtub capable of holding all of the men who installed it, something the White House denied until the bathtub was torn out years later.
• Taft was the last American president to have had facial hair (in his case, a moustache), as of 2007.
• Taft was an avid baseball fan, but contrary to myth he did not create the seventh-inning stretch, which was a custom decades earlier. He was, however, the first American president to throw the ceremonial first pitch at a baseball game, at Griffith Stadium, Washington, D.C., on April 14, 1910.
• Taft was the first American president to golf as a hobby.
• Taft was the first president to occupy the Oval Office when it was opened in October 1909.
• It is rumored that Taft was so concerned with his appearance that during his term as president he would only wear three piece suits with three buttons on the jacket out in public.
• Taft was the first American president to own a presidential automobile. He converted the White House stables into a four-car garage in 1909.

President Taft's cow, Pauline, poses in front of the Old Executive Office Building.

• Taft owned a Holstein cow, Pauline Wayne, which he let graze freely on the White House lawn. Pauline was the last cow to live at the White House. She provided milk for the president and his family.
• He is one of two presidents buried at Arlington (the other being John F. Kennedy) and one of four chief justices buried at Arlington (the others being Earl Warren, Warren Burger, and William Rehnquist).
• He was the first Chief Justice that did not die in office since Oliver Ellsworth and was the only Chief Justice ever to have a state funeral.

Popular culture

• "Blasting Taft" has become an increasingly popular euphemism for masturbation on certain internet message boards.
• Richard Armour's poem It All Started with Columbus describes Taft as being "as big as two ordinary men, and fortunately named both William and Howard." Armour wrote that Taft tried to stay in the middle of the road, but "was run over by the Democratic machine."
• In The Simpsons episode "Homer the Smithers", Waylon Smithers tells Homer Simpson that Mr. Burns never forgave his mother - aged 122 in 1996 - for having an affair with Taft.
• In a famous Saturday Night Live sketch featuring Dana Carvey as Tom Brokaw, Taft was said to have been eaten by wolves.

Taft is the fucking man!

Taft: can you dig it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.9.151 (talk) 20:58, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Deleting material sourced by tax fraud web site

I am deleting the material regarding the link to the "Sovereignty Education and Defense Ministry" (SEDM), which is actually another "activity" of Mr. Christopher M. Hansen. For those Wikipedia editors who don't know who Hansen is, check this out from the U.S. Department of Justice web site, which shows a Federal court order identifying SEDM as one of Hansen's "tax-fraud schemes" (that's the court's wording, not mine): [2]. See also [3] I have seen some talk in another forum questioning why Hansen apparently has not yet complied with the court order shutting down his activity, but that's another story.

At any rate, one of the basic tenets of Wikipedia is that we must use reliable sources. A web site that has been ruled in a court of law to be part of a "tax-fraud scheme" probably does not fit the bill. Yours, Famspear 03:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)