Is this article under construction? I did a vandalism rollback and when I was thorugh noticed that the second half of the article has virtually no refs, while the first half has many. It sure would be nice if every para had at least one ref. [[User:Jeffpw|Jeffpw]] ([[User talk:Jeffpw|talk]]) 15:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Is this article under construction? I did a vandalism rollback and when I was thorugh noticed that the second half of the article has virtually no refs, while the first half has many. It sure would be nice if every para had at least one ref. [[User:Jeffpw|Jeffpw]] ([[User talk:Jeffpw|talk]]) 15:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
== Babur nominally a Mongol? according to who ==
Babur himself wrote, with his own pen that he was a "Turk", if he was a Mongol he would have wrote that he was a Mongol.
There is no case left for arguments over his ethnicity when he himself directly tells us what he is.
This is a primary historical source. He was a Turk, his mother-tongue was Turki, he openly states this yet somebody feels no shame in distorting his words and writting, Babur was nominally a Mongol...no he wasn't a Mongol, he didn't know Mongolian and didn't identify as a Mongol.
[[Torke]]
Revision as of 00:01, 20 February 2008
Babur was one of the History good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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Afghanistan and Western Pakistan are not part of the Indian Subcontinent so this statement "was a Muslim Emperor from Central Asia who founded the Mughal dynasty of India(Indian Subcontinent)" is not correct. 198.7.249.10123:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Pakistan is considered part of the extended "Indian subcontinent". And since Mughal rule and identity is strictly linked to the Indian subcontinent, the current version of the text is correct. Besides that, Pakistan and Afghanistan did not exist at that time. Tājik00:47, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Even though Afghanistan and Pakistan(Balochistan not part of subcontinent) did not exist at the time, the Mughals did rule over the land that is now called Afghanistan and Pakistan. How can a article on Babur, who is buried in Kabul, not mention that he ruled Afghanistan in the intro?
198.7.249.10116:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Afghanistan was not ruled by the Mughals ... it was mostly ruled by the Safavids. When Humayun conquered Qandahar and Kabul with Persian help, he had to give these 2 cities to the Persian Shah as a "sign of friendship" ... See the map: Safavid EmpireTājik19:14, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The map does not show Kabul part of the Safavid empire. Afghanistan was divided into different parts at the time, part of which was ruled by the Mughals. i removed Afghanistan and put back the Indian Subcontinent, it really doent make that much of a difference. By the way is their any reason why you keep putting back the Hindi script? I highly doubt Babur knew how to read that. 198.7.249.10123:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The Hindi script is just an additional information, just like his Latinzed name. Babur's mother-tongue was Chaghatay Turkic, and his knew Persian at a native level. But his Empire is strictly linked to the Indian subcontinent. Babur ruled India, and most of his subjects were Hindus. Tājik22:24, 6 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Bisexuality?
Leaving aside for a moment the word "bisexual" didn't exist during his time, nothing in this article mentions his orientation. According to glbtq.com and Dale, Stephen Frederic (2004), The Garden of the Eight Paradises: Babur and the Culture of Empire in Central Asia, Afghanistan and India, BRILL, ISBN9004137076 — and probably more — he was bisexual. Could someone with more knowledge of the subject than I add a section? Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs)02:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Sources
This article needs more sources. It's supposed to be a GA. Also there are some bits with "mabe" and "perhaps" with no sources, which may give teh impression of OR. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 02:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Please remove this, I checked out the sources, they are not in any way accurate. Can I say that in that time, emotion towards other men were nothing sexual. The translations are also wrong, in the sense that they are portrayed in a very sexual manner! So please remove this paragraph, this is extremely unnecessary.
Recently an editor changed the first paragraph of the section "Babur's name" to read:
Zāhir ud-Dīn Mohammad is more commonly known by his nickname, Babur, a word for lion of Indo-European origins. Babur is technically a prefix designating the hairy male of an animal so a Sher is tiger and Babur-Sher is a lion, an Ookh is a camel and a Babur-Ookh is a Bactrian Camel. In common Farsi, Urdu and Pashto speech, Babur when left unqualified means lion.
All of this may be true, but it's WP:OR, first of all, and secondly it's not supported by the reference provided:
Zahir ud-Din Mohammad (2002-09-10). Thackston, Wheeler M. (ed.). The Baburnama: Memoirs of Babur, Prince and Emperor. Modern Library Classics. ISBN 0-375-76137-3. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Check date values in: |date= (help)CS1 maint: date and year (link)
If the anon editor can provide a similar source that states that Babur's name means "Tiger" or "Lion", please provide the source either here or in the article. Thanks! -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs)05:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Here are some refereces where it is explained that Name Babur mean a Lion or Tiger.
The Encyclopedia Americana: A Library of Universal Knowledge - Page 7
The Encyclopedia Americana: A Library of Universal Knowledge - Page 4
1918
Bibliotheca Indica - Page 223
by Royal Asiatic Society of Bengal, Asiatic Society (Calcutta, India) - South Asian literature - 1907
Oxford Children's History of the World - Page 86
by Neil Grant - Juvenile Nonfiction - 2000 - 192 pages
Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North West Frontier Province - Page 440
by H.A. Rose - 1990 - 2076 pages
Academic American Encyclopedia - Page 7
Encyclopedias and dictionaries - 1980
Great Lives - Page 40
by Kh. A. Haye - History - 1966 - 100 pages
Encyclopædia Britannica: A New Survey of Universal Knowledge - Page 837
by Walter Yust - Encyclopedias and dictionaries - 1951
Akbar the Great Mogul, 1542-1605 - Page 9
by Vincent Arthur Smith - Mogul Empire - 1919 - 504 pages
Is this article under construction? I did a vandalism rollback and when I was thorugh noticed that the second half of the article has virtually no refs, while the first half has many. It sure would be nice if every para had at least one ref. Jeffpw (talk) 15:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Babur nominally a Mongol? according to who
Babur himself wrote, with his own pen that he was a "Turk", if he was a Mongol he would have wrote that he was a Mongol.
There is no case left for arguments over his ethnicity when he himself directly tells us what he is.
This is a primary historical source. He was a Turk, his mother-tongue was Turki, he openly states this yet somebody feels no shame in distorting his words and writting, Babur was nominally a Mongol...no he wasn't a Mongol, he didn't know Mongolian and didn't identify as a Mongol.
