Talk:Iraq

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TOTALLY POV

500,000 children died as a result of the sanctions against Iraq?!? Common sense itself screams out against such an assertion. Although reference 15 does point to an article on a website, that article in no way backs up this claim. I am removing this outlandish claim unless a stronger reference can be found. --Murphoid (talk) 22:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I see this crazy claim is back in the article, even though in both the references it is clearly a projection not a solid fact. --Murphoid (talk) 23:27, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

the article says it is an estimate. --neon white talk 15:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

gulf war article is totally biased POV. please put citations and references? or else I'll try my best to revert it. JoTp (talk) 17:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

First Civilization?

i love ceanni and bebe but not too sure about princess '_' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.125.39.17 (talk) 03:04, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

iraq has first civilization? sumer? this should be deleted and corrected very soon. so what about the sind civilization in pakistan and civilizations such as burned city and jiroft in IRAN? if iraq had the first civilization, so why today they are too uncivilized?

This is an encyclopedia, not a forum for expressing nationalist propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.185.23.19 (talk) 13:37, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

how r u 2 rag on iraqi civilization when u can't even speel. l2com, nub -- k4rm4 —Preceding unsigned comment added by K4rm4k4z3 (talk • contribs) 19:13, August 30, 2007 (UTC)

Iraqis are not uncivilized people, that is an assault thats truly uncalled for and nothing but a sign of ignorance and nationalist extremism. Furthermore, a countrys' degree of civilization in today has very little to do with its degree of civilization 5000 years ago.

The issue of the first civilization is speculative and doubtful. How about China?

agreed -- "first civilization" should be changed to "one of the earliest known civilizations". Similarly, in the Ancient History section "these civilizations produced the earliest writing" should be changed to "these civilizations produced some of the earliest known writing." I believe we definitely know of earlier writing, such as the Indus Valley Script. As for the location of truely the first civilization, that is an unknown. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Erikmartin (talk • contribs) 18:40, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

Since there are various definitions of "civilization", it might be better if we could name a particular achievement that occurred first in the area of the present Iraq. By "civilization" do we mean the introduction of horticulture, a specific level of technology, communal organization and division of labour, urbanization, or what? --Boson 11:13, 7 April 2OO7 (UTC)

Perhaps the first known literacy/recorder histroy is meant??? Arnoutf 21:29, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Civilization has the following intro "The term civilization has a variety of meanings related to human society. Most often it is used to refer to "complex" societies: those that practice intensive agriculture; have a significant division of labour; and have population densities sufficient to form cities." The Sumerians were one of the first to build large cities, have agriculture and the division of labour between farmers, merchants and rulers. Dabbler 01:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, for example, even in Iraq, Hassuna 'culture' was older than Sumer, and they even had their pottery, but it's not acknowledged as civilization.

It is interesting that now-a-days nothing may be stated with certainty. "one of the earliest known civilizations," "some of the earliest known writing,"..... Logically, one among those "earliest know civilizations" is THE oldest. Well, which one is it, or have we become so insanely politically correct that we think it would hurt the feelings of another nation if they just happened not to be the oldest, mostest, bestest ...etc. etc.? Writing as is known to mankind was developed in Iraq and the immediate surrounding territories (Zagros mountain and foothills) nearly six thousand years ago. All other types of writing know at present, are younger, to include most certainly the Indus Valley style of writing. In fact all forms of writing, short of those of the Mayans, originate in those produced by the early civilizations of Mesopotamia/Iraq. This includes the Chinese, Indian, Caucasian, Ethiopic, and all European forms of writing.

Let us stop confusing ourselves at the alter of political correctness and instead, learn how the human civilization developed (for real, not the current PC type)

Those are some broad claims some of which, I honestly have not heard before particularly that civilization and ALL Eurasian/African writing came from mesopitamia and surrounding areas can you link some souces. I really do not care about PCness just link some good sources for this claim and your good.

I hope this is helpful. The ancient Sumerians created the world's first writing system known as cuneiform. The term cuneiform means "wedge-shaped." Sumerian writing is wedge-shaped because of the the type of instrument that was used to create it. [1] also, some other sites. [2], [3], [4].

The effect of the US invasion on reconstruction

What is the statement in Iraq#Reconstruction that

Reconstruction of Iraq has been difficult [...] due to [...] the influx of the US invasion

supposed to mean? The US invasion caused the damage and once it was complete, then reconstruction began, so the invasion which is no longer in progress can't be really getting in the way, can it?--Rudjek 22:28, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

This War is a real big fake to maintain control of iraq oil, NO More Blood for Money!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.21.237.144 (talk) 04:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Population

I changed the population and if the old numbers are correct of 28 million that means the population of Iraq has dropped by 2 million in one yearPotaaatos 16:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

2 million in one year seems slightly on the high side. This source has about 2 milllion since 2003.

"The United Nations High Commission for Refugees estimates that some 2 million people out of a population of 26 million have left Iraq since the US-led war in 2003 . . . ."

--Boson 21:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

A couple million fled from the country and one million killed since the U.S. invasion.

-G

however this neglects the fact that iraq has one of the highest population growth rates in the world, 30+ per 1000 and a death rate just of 11 so they are growing at 2.9% per year as per Unicef -- and there were about 2 million refugees from iraq under sadaam, some of whom came back.

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/iraq_statistics.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.195.21 (talk) 21:20, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

here is a ling for the birth and death rate statistics http://unstats.un.org/unsd/cdb/cdb_advanced_data_extract_fm.asp?HYrID=2005&HSrID=13580%2C13600&HCrID=368&continue=Continue+%3E%3E —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.195.21 (talk) 21:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Also note the article the poster above sites is just a statement made two and a half years ago, the official and current population estimate of iraq from the United Nations and World Bank is about 28 million. These estimates are more current than the article cited above. The link to them is posted at the bottom of this page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.195.21 (talk) 22:12, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

The UN's report on population trends i 2005 has iraq at 28 million and growing at a 2.9% a year http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/WPP2004/2004Highlights_finalrevised.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.195.21 (talk) 01:06, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

the United Nations High Commission actually has the population of Iraq as 27.5 million as of 2007. the report mentioned above is from 2005 here is the link

http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/refworld/rwmain?docid=46ee679667 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abigailadams2 (talk • contribs) 03:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Name

Another version of the origin of the name widely accepted:

The word عراق is the Arabic version (معرٌب) of the word Arak. Arak was the name of an area as well as a small river (that does not exist anymore) in the middle of the ancient Iran, literally meaning “the middle of Iran”. After the invasion of Arabs in the 7th century A.D., the area in the middle of Iran was called عراق عجم (Iraq of Iran) for this same reason. Today, the city Arak in that area receives her name from the same root. The area currently known as Iraq worldwide was named Iraq of Arab (عراق عرب) to distinguish it from Iraq of Iran and at the time to proudly announce that Arabia is so big that this area is in the middle of it. Later the name was given to this country.

The name Uruk (Uruq) does mean "two rivers" in Arabic/Aramaic but is very unlikely to be the origin as it is used for small rather than large rivers.

Your article suggests that the country was called Iraq of Arab under the Sasanid Empire. That’s incorrect. The word Iraq of Arab appears in the literature much later than the Sasanids.

Does anyone even pay attention to the discussions? The Name section of this article has serious flaws and should be revised!

What is the English translitteration of "Federal Republic of Iraq"? - unsigned comment

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How did the country get its name?

The etymology section discusses the origin of the word "Iraq", but does not explain how the country got the name. Who decided that this region would be officially named Iraq? Where in the article is this explained? - Drogo Underburrow 03:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

The section still starts out using the passive. I cleaned up the first sentence to eliminate useless words, but left it in the passive. Somebody want to fix this?

Secondly, just who is this article written for? The public, or the editors? The public, including myself, for the most part cannot understand the gobbledygook that is the symbols given for how to pronounce the word "Iraq". I call this sort of junk ego writing, done to satisfy the person who wrote it, but almost useless to the public, a waste of space. Wikipedia is not a dictionary and this sort of junk doesn't belong. Drogo Underburrow 03:21, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

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I see that the article has lots of Persian influence which seems to be unneccessary & unacceptable by the Iraqi pop....like the name suggestion about Arak is defineitely incorrect since the name Iraq in Arabic was used long before Sassaid occupation & what is the purpose of the following sentence in the article:......Close to the coast and along the Shatt al-Arab (known as arvandrūd: اروندرود among Iranians) there used to be marshlands, but many were drained in the 1990s.... why is it even mentioned?? every region has different nomenclature in different languages......like Tehran in Arabic is named طهران. Actually if you take a look at the Baghdad article you'll see that persian is mentioned more than Baghdad or Iraq or Arabic...why is it so much Persian nationalistic influence on Iraq-& Arabic related articles. Actually if you consider "persian" nomenclature, if you go back to its origin the majority of it is of Arabic origin...but it is not mentioned in the Iran-related articles..why is wikipedia being so much BIASED & manipulated to serve other peoples intentions??? Something really funny in the Iran history article...they jump over certain centuries in the history when the Arabs ruled persia. Please do something because Wikipedia is not trustful anymore for gaining the real facts.Iraswe —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.6.158.33 (talk) 13:32, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

The Motto

Is not it "God is One" ?

No (even 'God is greatest' is technically incorrect) It is "Allah is greatest" [[User:Cs1kh]] 16:15, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Allah just means God in Arabic.

'Rab' means god. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.249.229.58 (talk) 09:10, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

When a person says 'god', a person from any religion (or no religion) can ask which god? By explicitly using the word 'Allah' it states the god of Islam. As above: 'Rab' means god. 'Allah' is a name, though only ever used by Muslims and for God. Allah is used explicitly for the God of Islam (though Islam believes it is the only god of all people)! so the logo will be changed to "Allah is one" accordingly (as "God is One" is an incorrect translation) [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 10:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Arabic word Allah is translated as God with a capital G in English. As far as I know Allah was originally formed from a definite article and the word 'god'. Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word "Allah" to mean "God". --Jhattara ^{(Talk · Contrib)} 11:08, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I really doubt that Jews use the word Allah to refer to God! But I would be impressed if they do! [[User:Cs1kh]] (talk) 13:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

The arab jews do :DEmadd (talk) 23:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Occupied

Iraq is currently occupied by the US -Mrsanitazier 9:09 AM Eastern Time

Yes: Occupation needs to be listed as a fact. Also, in the section which lists the dates of Independance from the Ottomans and the British, the USA should also be added with date being "pending" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.249.89.20 (talk) 10:14, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

USA-centric article

Thank you to the editors for this interesting article. Because I am a new user, please could somebody add the template {{Globalize/USA}} for the following reasons:

1. (Main reason) In particular, this excerpt represets a definitely US view of Iraq:

"Iraq was home to the earliest known civilization, Sumer. Today, it is a developing nation that has gained considerable international attention because of the Iraq War."

Outside of the US, Iraq was of interest to its neighbours, to scholars, to Muslims, and many other people. It's only some people from some contries who were ignorant about Iraq before they decided to wage war on it.

2.The section about the American war on Iraq is far too long. I'm not saying it's good or bad content, accurate or inaccurate, or anything. It's just that this is the world's oldest civilisation, and the length of this section is disproportionate to the significnce of this war in the 5000+ years of Iraqi civilisation.

Thanks.

Hello. Thanks for your comments. I did not put the {{Globalize/USA}} on the article, because I'm not sure it's warranted. In response to your objections;

1. I changed the objectionable sentence to "Today, it is a developing nation that has recently recieved increased international attention because of the Iraq War." I think this addresses your concern that Iraq was of interest to some people before the invasion while still making the point that it is of interest now to people it was not of interest to before. Let me know if you disagree.

2. I don't think the two sections on the war are too long - rather I think the sections on its older history are far, far too short. However, this isn't an indication of US bias so much as it is an indication of recentism - a bias towards recent events. I'm not sure so much what to do about that though.

~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 20:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I did register an account but its not of use yet as I am still a new user and the article is locked.

Re. 1. I think your edit is an improvement and fairer, but I'm still not sure how I would feel if I were an Iraqi reading the article. Another way of looking at this is to imagine whether I would be right in adding right now the following to the opening of the USA article:

"the US is a country with a short history of civilization which gained considerable international attention because of the Iraq War".

It seems ridiculuous, but it's only the same comment in reverse. How about "Today, it is a developing nation that is the focus of increased attention from the West because of the Iraq War."

Re. 2. I agree that maybe its an issue of the length of the other sections.

I am the same anonymous person as above. How about adding the following as the second paragraph of the intro, after "Persian Gulf"? I removed the disputed reference to being the earliest civilization, and translated a bit from the French version of the article.

"Modern-day Iraq covers a large area of Mesopotamia, one of the cradles of civilisation. It was on the banks of the Tigress , which passes through the capital Baghdad, that writing was born. During its long history, it has been variously part of the Persian, Ottoman and British empires.

Today, it is a developing nation that is the focus of increased attention from the West because of the Iraq War. For recent information on Iraq, please see Iraq war."

What do you think?

I think those are good changes. I copied them to the article for you, and made some minor adjustments. I left off the last sentence as I thought the first link to Iraq War was sufficient. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I like your changes and I think its a big improvement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.131.34.223 (talk) 15:18, 21 April 2007 (UTC).

Basically, the US has now lost all global credibility due to the Iraq War. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.147.131 (talk) 11:08, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Interview with Hala Al-Saraf on Iraq's Public Health Sector

Recently, the Education for Peace in Iraq Center has conducted a ground truth interview with Hala Al-Saraf concerning the pending need for revitalization in Iraq's health sector. Hala Al-Sraf received her bachelors degree from IRaq's Mustansiriya University and from there went to work in various UN organizations in Baghdad. Recently Hala Al-Saraf was accepted as a fulbright scholar and studied at Columbia university as well as developed many information sharing programs, including project THINK which connects Iraqi and American medical students to benefit from eachother's knowledge and promote commmunication. But, Hala Al-Saraf cannot complete the task of fixing Iraqi's health sector issues alone. She admits the need for the development of the base of the medical sector, especially in terms of providing training for new medical professionals, due to the hundreds of doctors and medical professionals who have either been murdered, been kidnapped or fled for their lives from Iraq leaving the country with one of the least developed public health systems in the world.

Click here and read this intriguing interview with Hala Al-Saraf to find out more.

POV

A recently added paragraph at the end of the introduction is slightly point of view. The source of Iraq's political problems is ethnic differences and not the coalition forces. I doubt that the coalition is responsible for the shia/sunni conflict, or that it would easily go away when the forces withdraw. The definition in the "developing nation" article does not fit Iraq; Iraq is missing data to give it a classification. Also, the mention of the use of Iraq's massive oil reserves is suspiciously juxtaposed to coalition forces. Iraq has traditionally been a significant source of the world's oil production regardless of the invasion.

Such phrases as "Iraq currently faces several problems/challenges" are vastly different from "Invading forces have led to several problems/challenges for Iraq." Answering the question "why" more frequently has a POV tone than answering the question "what". As of June 2007, Iraq has the greatest political significance in America[5] Future additions should test for neutrality in the light that this is the most contentious issue for America at the moment. Legis Nuntius 21:11, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

"The source of Iraq's political problems is ethnic differences..." This is rather disingenuous. It's clear that whatever differences already existed have been greatly exacerbated by the invasion and occupation. Even many people who initially supported the war acknowledge this. MFlet1 14:57, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

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new comment---

"I doubt that the coalition is responsible for the shia/sunni conflict, or that it would easily go away when the forces withdraw"

This is in itself POV. That you doubt something doesn't mean jack. Your suggestions can be summed up as follows: You want the article re-written in your POV.

I agree that blaming problems on the invasion that were there before, although oppressed, doesn't make sense. It does seem anti US/Invasion pov. I say go ahead and make those eidts you mentioned Legis.75.67.137.34 (talk) 19:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

What's up with the official names?

There's no Arabic transliteration, nor is there Arabic-text Kurdish, nor do they even agree with the English phrasing or the article (the Arabic and Kurdish give Republic of Iraq, the article and English give Federal Republic of Iraq). Who's right, who's wrong, and what the heck are we going to do about it? Lockesdonkey 02:03, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Factual error and substitution of opinion for fact concerning reconstruction of infratructure

The introduction to the article makes the following claim:

"Beginning with the invasion in 2003, a Multinational coalition of forces, mainly American and British, has occupied Iraq. The invasion has led to increased civil violence, political breakdown, the removal and execution of former president Saddam Hussein, and national problems in the development of political balance, economy, infrastructure, and use of the country's massive reserves of oil."

The inference about problems in infrastructure is factually inaccurate. There is ample documentation available online, at sites such as http://www.enr.construction.com/, site of Engineering News-Record, the world's leading construction and engineering professional journal, and the U. S. Department of Defense news site at http://www.defendamerica.mil/, of the extent of reconstruction and new construction in Iraq, especially in remedying deterioration and neglect dating to the Saddam regime.

The article fails to mention that Iraq is currently under US ocuppation and that Iraq's government is our country's puppet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.121.175.148 (talk) 08:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Given the freedoms the Iraqis now have, and have won for themselves, and their liberation from an undeniably tyrannical regime (facts not mentioned in this introduction), the claim that "these issues have led to major setbacks for Iraq" is obviously opinion masquerading as fact. Writeroflight 04:23, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

This is heading into a political battleground. As for the Department of Defense newsite, to what kind of opinion do you think it might be disposed? Yes, that which is put out in official press releases. Defence PR is not the same as objective journalism. I agree, there is much construction and reconstruction, but after the country being bombed and invaded, the infrastructure has been crippled; its problems have been well documented. You can read into the situation from either side: what is being done or what has happened. The former is for those who prefer optimism. As for your last point, a tyrannical dictator was deposed, to the benefit of all, but a mess was created, to the detriment of all but terrorists and militants. "A tyrannical regime was liberated" would be a very skewed statement to put into the article. It's closer to bombastic rhetoric than academic prose. RedRabbit 10:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

""A tyrannical regime was liberated" would be a very skewed statement to put into the article. It's closer to bombastic rhetoric than academic prose."" I disagree with that RedRabbit. I think it is a fact that "A tyrannical regime was dissolved" or some derivative of it. Liberated works, imho. 75.67.137.34 (talk) 19:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Many iraqi people are liberated from all the primitive things like breathing or eating. They must be resting happy in peace, because their tyrannical regime was dissolved. By the way, is there any source, how many iraqi people called for help, to dissolve their tyrannical regime? What are you talking about? Iraq was probably not a good place to live, now it is definitely worse than hell. "Liberation"! Dont joke about drama of millions of people. --81.210.156.129 (talk) 01:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Jomhuri-ye Iraq"

Hello, The name of the country is given as "Jomhuri-ye Iraq". This is incorrect as "ye" is a Persian grammatical feature, and Arabic is the Official Language of Iraq. It should be something along the lines of al-jamhuriyat ul-'Iraq. Thanks! 68.163.146.156 02:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

"Jomhuri-ye Iraq" is a Kurdish name of the country, though not the official one; that's كۆماری عێراق (Komara Iraqê). Lockesdonkey (talk) 19:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

It read as Komari Iraq --Babakexorramdin (talk) 11:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

GA

Why did Iraq originally fail as a GA? And is anyone interested in bring back up to a GA? What needs to be done? RedRabbit 09:58, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

U.N. to let Iraq sell oil for euros, not dollars

Can we put this headline before the Invasion headline. thanks

U.N. to let Iraq sell oil for euros, not dollars

Iraq's U.N. Ambassador Saeed Hasan reported earlier that Baghdad would delay the changeover until after Nov. 6, rather than put it into effect on November 1, as originally announced. Iraq has called the dollar the currency of an "enemy state."

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/meast/10/30/iraq.un.euro.reut/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Justjihad (talk • contribs) 06:20, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I can't see what this has to do with anything now or historically, as it happened in 2000, when Saddam Hussein was controlling the country.

Do we know if this is still the case? Because either way, presenting this in any manner outside of it's historical significance (of which there is little if any) would be biased. 70.236.28.167 (talk) 23:16, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

It might be more relevant in the Iran Oil Bousse article, that nation recently has switched to the Euro and the Yen as their primary currencies for oil. Japan is one of Irans biggest single traders.--mitrebox (talk) 20:05, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

No WMD's were found

The article clearly, and rightfully, discusses in a paragraph that the reason for invasion primarily was the alleged development and possession of WMD's by Iraq. However, the article continues with a 'Post-Invasion' paragraph which completely fails to mention that these WMD's were never found and that the American government acknowledges this.

You can not write a paragraph about the reasons for invasion, and then completely omit that these reasons proved to be wrong... Especially in this context and heated debate about Iraq, these facts that they have not been found (and I don't think anyone argues whether this is a fact or not) need to be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.187.44.118 (talk) 05:17, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

When the article is updated to note that Iraq did not in fact fact have WMD in 2003, here is a reference (an interview with chief weapons inspector David Kay): http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1160609,00.html

In addition, since the article also referenced to Mr. Bush's comment, "This is a regime that agreed to international inspections—then kicked out inspectors," it is also worth noting that Iraq had allowed inspections to return on Nov. 27, 2002, but they were effectively kicked out when Mr. Bush gave his 48 hours notice that the war was about to begin. (Reference: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2005-09-02-WMD-indepth_x.htm)

PawnshopTrash 20:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)PawnshopTrash

The point is moot. Not only were the inspectors were supposed to be allowed in, but they were supposed to have unfettered access. Saddam would block roads, deny access, and delay inspectors to such an extent as to make their job impossible. And no one has ever even tried to answer, if he had no weapons why not let in the international community in. If he thought the UN was biased he could invite teams from Japan,Russia,Germany,France to come in, open the sites, show the press. He had the same weapons he had in 1991, they had degraded to an non-deployable state. --mitrebox (talk) 20:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually, Saddam Hussein admitted in interrogation that he did not let in inspectors because he wanted the rest of the world to think he had WMD's when he actually did not have any. Basically it was just a bluff. Also, The US has spent billions on trying to find any wmd's and the most the have found so far was an old wmd factory that had clearly been shut down since the treaty at the end of the persian gulf war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.160.1.110 (talk) 02:29, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

OK so explain this -

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html

Jokem (talk) 21:02, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

incorrect population listed

the population of iraq listed is incorrect. it says the population is 26,783,3834 and cites the World Factbook.

the World Factbook actually says the number is 27,499,638

and actually given the potentially biased nature of the World Factbook on Iraq, the article should probably cite the United Nations number of 27,995,984 (2005 estimated) or the estimated 2007 number of 28,993,376 -- most international organizations favor the World Factbook number, but given the situation perhaps the UN number might be more appropriate

link to UN data: http://unstats.un.org/unsd/cdb/cdb_years_on_top.asp?srID=13684&Ct1ID=&crID=368&yrID=2001%2C2002%2C2003%2C2004%2C2005%2C2006%2C2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.135.195.21 (talk) 20:16, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments on the recent history sections

These are my immediate impressions on reading through the history section, specifically the more recent parts:

• The Gulf War: it would be good to keep a totally new reader in mind, and explain what it actually was. All that would be necessary would be something like 'in response to the invasion of Kuwait, the United Nations authorised the use of force against Iraq. This caused the Gulf War, in which a US-led coalition defeated Iraq and forced it out of Kuwait.'
• Only a few lines are given to Iraq between 1991 and 2003. This seems too little, and gives the impression that nothing happened in Iraq's history between the two wars being fought there. It would be good to see more coverage of the sanctions and no-fly zones; the Kurdish uprising of 1991; and how about a mention of Operation Desert Fox, the bombing of Iraq in 1998?
• On the other hand, the next section, about the invasion of Iraq, devotes two rather length paragraphs to justifying the war. It seems to me that this material belongs more in the article Rationale for the Iraq War. I'm not sure it's even necessary to mention the specific UN resolutions; effectively, this whole section could be summarised as: 'President Bush initiated war against Iraq, arguing that this was justified by the UN resolutions against it; others disagreed.' The issue of the WMD is of course important, but it doesn't need to be explained in detail.
• Post-invasion Iraq: this section says 'Al-Qaeda took advantage of the insurgency...' without explaining what 'the insurgency' is. Again, we should write as if for a totally new reader. I think this section needs at least a few lines mentioning the decline and collapse in Iraq's security since 2003; the rise of a violent insurgency against foreign and Iraqi troops, consisting of various different forces; and the sectarian war within Iraq itself. The basics are there already, but it could use a little rewriting for clarity.

I may return to make these changes myself, but for now they're just recommendations on this section. Terraxos 04:20, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Kurdish nation

Kurds: Indoeuropean migration: Around 7000 years ago the first migration waves( maybe because of population overcrowd) of the biggest language family of the world called indoeuropean language family started.The members of this big family first live together in a region in caucasus(west of caspian sea and today's Georgia and Armenia) or maybe in Anatolia near Van lake(today's turkey). Different branches of this big family were Germanic,Celtic, Baltic Slavic, Albanian, Latin, Greek, Armenian, Iranian and indoaryans. Among these branches there was a big branch named Iranian family. Iranian family had three major subgroups : Medes(today's Kurdish), Persian(today's Farsi,Tajik and Dari) and Parthian(extincted). Iranian people who called themselves as aryans( and iran means the land of aryans) first started their settlement in zagros mountains(west of today's iran)to anatolia (east of today's Van lake in turkey) in around 7000 years ago. They were Medes( ancectors of today's Kurds) first iranians who came to iran. Persians and Parthians came to iran hundreds of years later. The Medes formed the first big civilization of aryans (or maybe all indoeuropeans) in their lands. They preserved their brilliant culture and language against all foreign invasions during thausands of years. The first iranian big empire was founded by these people around 3000 years ago although they had many smaller kingdoms before that.Medes people( Kurds) have had important roles in development and vanishment of different big empires and kingdomes of the region until around 1000 years ago when islam came to their region. Many scolars believe that Zoroaster, the great iranian prophet was median. You can find in ancient greek and asyrian documents that they frequently mentioned directly to Median or Kurdish people as a people with a great civilization. Today their land is divided into more than four countries including Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Armenia and Azerbaijan as well. but all of the kurds in those countries still have the same language and culture. Except for Azerbaijan and Armenia and recently Iraq all other three countries are not democratic countries and kurds think they are under oppression in those countries and are fighting against those governments militarily or politicaly for their natural rights. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Awyer (talk • contribs) 22:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Turkey is a democratic country. There are nearly 90(%~15 of total) Kurdish-orgined parlamenters in Parlament of Turkey. Most of them are in AKP which is leading and directing the government.

Iraqi Turkmens: Where are they?

According to Iraqi 1957 census, there were 600.000 Turkmens in Iraq at that time. 600.000 Turkmens means 10% of Iraqi population was Turkmen at that time. However in this article it says Turkmens+Assyrians+etc = 5%. So where are the missing millions of Turkmens? Let me say it, under the pressure of Kurds...Please edit the article. The real number of their population is 2-2.5 million and 10% of total Iraqi population. These are some references: http://www.unpo.org/member_profile.php?id=27 http://www.adherents.com/adhloc/Wh_155.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.233.247.26 (talk) 02:32, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

UNPO is not reliable, but the answer is this: many Sunni Turkmens are counted as Sunni Arabs because they formed with them a bloc against the Kurdish nationalists. You can see so many Turkomanic names under Iraqi Sunni Arabs e.g. Pachachi. The other who were pro-Kurd are counted as Kurds. Shiite Turkmen however were not part of this business and are closer to other Shiites in the power struggle in Iraq. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Kurdish transliteration?

Kurdish transliteration ?

As far as I know, عراق is an Arabic name. So why it's being transliterated using the transliteration rules of the Kurdish language?

For example, اربیل which is a Kurdish name, is transliterated to "Irbil"; And the same counts for the "Iraq"!!! it must be transliterated into "Eraq" as per Arabic rules for transliteration (Look at this)

Anyone interested in this issue?

Maxee (talk) 10:54, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Um, the offical transliteration of Iraq in the DIN 31635 (the basis for the most common scientific transliterations of Arabic) has no "E" and uses "I" instead. "ʿIrāq" is correct. Lockesdonkey (talk) 19:38, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Bias

This article is extremly bias and will have a negative effect on those who view Wikipedia as factual. One key bias point is that Iraq is notItalic text' a colony of the United States of America. If one searches it on the internet, only lectuers and protests can be found. For some reason this article is relatively hard to edit, but must be corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mryogibojangles (talk • contribs) 14:53, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Manticore55 (talk) 16:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC) Anyone who uses Wikipedia seriously understands the possibility of Vandalism, which is why one must check the history of edits if there is a questionable statement. Furthermore, collegiate sources do not generally accept Wikipedia as a source for this very reason. Vandalism does not make the article biased.

"Allahu Akbar" vandalism

A user/vandal has changed the transliteration of the flag's moto from "Allahu Akbar" to 'Death to america' I have changed it back [[User:Cs1kh]] 16:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit request

{{editprotected}} In the "Etymology" section, please change "(3) is closer to the Arabic pronunciation than (2) is" to "(1) is closer to the Arabic pronunciation than 2 is". Pronunciation (3) is "eye-RACK", which is nothing at all like the Arabic, while pronunciation (1) is "i-RAHK", which is at least marginally closer. 62.145.19.66 (talk) 06:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This is the sort of thing that would really benefit from a reference. I would think some reliable source must have commented on the pronunciation. — Carl (CBM · talk) 22:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

There's a typo, but I can't change it, since I don't have an account: "Despite being a large of military force, the Iraqi army was no match for the advanced weaponry of the coalition forces and the air superiority that the U.S. Air Force provided." shouldn't include the word "of". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.118.142 (talk) 00:17, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

The typo should be now fixed. --Jhattara ^{(Talk · Contrib)} 11:07, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Three Pronunciations

And three "IPA" representations of them, totally unintelligible to almost all readers. Not such a good idea, IPA. Lou Sander (talk) 02:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

"al-‘Irāq" is perhaps the best or "al-3Irāq". 3 (chat) or ` (backquote) stand for `ayn (ع). ʕ is the API symbol for it, so it would be "al-ʕirāq" --Atitarev (talk) 22:43, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Demographics Statistics

The figures in this section have recently been arbitrarily altered by an editor with no references quoted either before or after. I have tagged all the changed numbers and added an "Accuracy" template to the section. I am assuming good faith on the part of the editor and that he can actually provide a source. If not, I believe the figures should be reverted to the original data. Comments? SpinningSpark 20:42, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to agree here - these are entirely arbitrary. Especially such a highly cited figure of 20% for the Kurdish Population. Everything I have seen and read has stated anywhere between 10-15%. Unless some citations can be brought in I suggest removing them —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.228.73.112 (talk) 07:00, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

New Flag? (22 Jan 2007)

According to alarabia.net, a temporary flag is approved for a year by the parliament on 22 January 2007. Experienced users kindly update the flag section 82.194.62.230 (talk) 14:13, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Find an English page and we'll talk, as far as I know it says SAMPLE on that flag.--mitrebox (talk) 02:11, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

The new flag is official flag of Iraq, and I think they also changed the Coat of Arms of Iraq to reflect the change in the flag. --D.Kurdistani (talk) 05:00, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is a link to the Coat of Arms —Preceding unsigned comment added by D.Kurdistani (talk • contribs) 05:01, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for prompt update :) 82.194.62.230 (talk) 05:29, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

TEMPORARY & SAMPLE, that's mean they didn't take final decision about it, and in the other side most of the Iraqi people didn't agree about this change, so you shouldn't change it that early, Iraqis now don't feel good about this.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Khalid Yousif (talk • contribs) 20:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Iraq is still under occupation and the new flag is hotly contested. We should keep the old one until issues in the real world are resolved. Please don't be arrogant with issues you don't know about. It's not black and white. Leave the old flag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.192.123 (talk) 01:28, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Picture of Halabja

Why dont you put images of tortured Iraqis in Abu Ghraib? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.57.9 (talk) 18:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

WMD

However, no Iraqi weapons of mass destruction have been found since the invasion.[15]

---

This give a reference which is a bad link.

What about the CycloSarin found by Polish forces?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jokem (talk • contribs) 20:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I really hope that fox news is not considered a legitimate source by wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.150.251.214 (talk) 07:54, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. I'd even trust CNN more than that.--Hamster X (talk) 14:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, How about this

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/2/112615.shtml

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2004/07/mil-040702-rferl02.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm

www.freerepublic.com/tag/cyclosarin/index?tab=articles

http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/index.html?siteSect=143&sid=5055996

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1078&dept_id=151021&newsid=12185667&PAG=461&rfi=9

I am pretty sure, though, that a reference which is a bad link is preferable to you two.

Jokem (talk) 16:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I see the revert monkeys are active again. Jokem (talk) 14:57, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Cite sources at the bottom of the article!

Ex: In "demographics" section:

"Shi'a as much as 60%, Sunni about 40% (source: Britannica, Religion section of Iraq article). Shi'a 60%-65%, Sunni 32%-37% (source: CIA World Fact Book)." - 134.121.247.116 (talk) 00:49, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Why is the no-citations thing at the bottom

??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.10.146 (talk) 22:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Iraq formerly known as Mesopotemia

the last time when I read this article, I saw soemthing like Iraq formerly known as Mesopotemia.. now this text has been removed. Is there a reason behind this?. Iraq's former name in Greek was Mesopotemia, why has this been removed ?? Here's link for it: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=iraq —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.228.125.210 (talk) 22:24, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Iraq is the 51st State of the USA

As you know it has been a few years since the US has invaded and cleaned up Iraq. They are still there and are slowly making changes to the economy and imposing their democratic ideals with Western world thinking. The government claims that they will pull out but the truth is change has been good. This country will be occupied in some way by US influence and in return will reap the benefit of the oil which is really the real reason for occupying. 216.191.213.114 (talk) 16:38, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I would respectfully suggest that my colleague's comments be disregarded. Iraq has been put into a subservient position to the USA which does not lead to any emperical benefit for the nation. Although Sadam Hussein was a tyrant he at least maintained stability in the region which has now become a hotbed of ethnic tensions between Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish groups. Besides which, everybody knows that Canada is the 51st state.216.191.213.114 (talk) 16:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Canada is the 52nd state seeing as how Puerto Rico is the 51st. Whodoesntlovemonkeys (talk) 05:00, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I suspect the first two comments are a spoof, since they are withing minutes of each other from the same IP address. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.203.58.1 (talk) 14:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Deliberate misquoting of source

"Roughly 40% of Iraq's middle class is believed to have fled, the U.N. said. Most are fleeing systematic persecution and have no desire to return" This is ridiculous. The paragraph attempts to portray the diaspora as a result of Saddam Hussein's rule. But the numbers given are clearly for those that fled after the U.S. invasion - read the sources. The article cited for this claim said NOTHING about "systematic prosecution". It made clear that the diaspora was a result of the Iraq war, which the article completely ignored. Naurmacil (talk) 06:34, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Arabic Wikipedia

In the arabic article for Iraq, it's stated that Iraq is an Arab country, located in the middle east, against, the general view, which states that Iraq is a country located in the middle east.

Biased, I tried to change it, but seemed to face a ...Goliath! --41.200.140.163 (talk) 19:17, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Trying to figure out how this all had happened is like trying to figure out a puzzle when your missinng 15 pieces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.127.56 (talk) 14:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Stand-alone article on Iraq under Saddam?

Would everyone be open to creating an article on the previous "Iraq" as it was before the 2003 Invasion? Something along the lines of the USSR article, Austro-Hungary or Yugoslavia I'm very curious about how Saddam's government was set up and if there's any data on GDP and whatnot from back then. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.252.182.185 (talk) 07:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Light BIas

Has anyone noticed the bias in the Saddam Hussein section? I can understand why there would be a lot of bias, but this is an encyclopedia. There are subtle hints (but pretty obviouse ones) that the editors are against Saddam Hussein. Like i said, i can easily see why, but shouldn't all bias be eliminated in an encyclopedia?