Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Radio Stations

Template question

There seems to be a bit of an edit war over this on some radio market templates, so I thought I should ask for other people's opinions: given the fact that television stations which broadcast on channel 6 can also be heard on 87.7 FM, should we be listing channel 6 stations on the radio templates? I personally don't think we should, but what do the rest of you think? Bearcat (talk) 15:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

There are at least a couple that are intentionally using this fact to transmit an audio program while only sending a slide or other minimal video programming. Those should be included. As to the rest, I would say no. - Dravecky (talk) 15:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

If they are listed as FM licensed in the FCC database, yes. If not, no. JPG-GR (talk) 18:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think any of them are licensed as FM; there are a few that broadcast a very minimal video signal ( bot in terms of power and content ) which are technically licensed as TV stations but for programming purposes are FM radio stations. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:42, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

87.7 isn't licensed as a radio station in the US, their are 100 channels on the FM spectrum (Channels 201 to 300 spaced every .2 mhz). 87.9 is the first channel that would be licensed by the FCC (but isn't because of the proximity of TV Channel 6). Channel 6 shouldn't be listed in the RADIO station templates because of this, even if they are trying to gear themselves as a "radio" station. MrMarkTaylor ^{What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box} 23:02, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

If 87.7 walks like a duck and talks like a duck... Squidfryerchef (talk) 13:07, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Re: contents of Template:USRadio3

Would anybody be against the deletion of the lists as outlined in Template:USRadio3? With the completion of the lists by state, I question the usefulness of these alphabetical lists, other than from a trivia perspective. On the same hand, don't want to fully nominate yet until (a) I gauge the opinion of everyone else here and (b) to prevent some cascade that would cause other useful lists (like the state lists) to be subject to deletion. Thanks everyone! JPG-GR (talk) 06:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

The national lists by call letters (and thus sortable by the other fields) are still useful for finding stations, especially if you don't know the specific state in question or only know most of the callsign. - Dravecky (talk) 10:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I seriously have to question the likelihood that someone would be looking for an article on a station and not know what state it's licensed to (one extra list to check at most) or only know part of the callsign (let's say I know the last two letters are QI... doesn't really help). JPG-GR (talk) 03:26, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Listen to AM radio at night and you'll hear plenty of stations you don't know which state they're coming from. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

If such a station broadcasts its call sign while you're listening, you'll be able to look it up directly to find out what state it's in — and this kind of list won't help you if it doesn't. Bearcat (talk) 18:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Need help with WZNZ, 1460-AM, Jacksonville, FL

WZNZ needs some help. The present edit as well as the edits immediately prior to June 4 have some information that I've been assured is accurate, but I can't find any proper references for them. Can those of you who have access to local media or other information on this station help build this article up to GA status? Thanks. Also, if anyone has verifiable history on that radio station, including previous call signs on AM1460 out of Jacksonville, Florida please add them. I kind of botched things on June 4 when removed a large amount of unreferenced material and replaced it with information from the FCC that, as it turned out, I misinterpreted. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 03:13, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Oddly, Arbitron's most recent information shows a format not even mentioned yet in the article: a religious station, "1460 The River of Life", with a website still active at here. JPG-GR (talk) 03:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, far enough back there is ([1]). JPG-GR (talk) 03:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I've done some expansion and added a few references. There's still plenty of info to be mined from these references and the timeline clearly needs some more work but it's a start. - Dravecky (talk) 07:42, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

1460theriver.com appears to be a stale web page. I remember running across it in early June. I couldn't figure out which web page was the current one. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 14:07, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

100000watts.com (a commercial database of radio stations) shows it as "Talk", running Ed Schultz, Jim Bohannon, and Bloomberg business news, with the format change (from religion) happening on 2008-01-14. 121a0012 (talk) 03:02, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Help with "Play 99.6 FM"?

I deprodded Play 99.6 FM a while back. It's a radio station in Jordan. It was PROD'ed because of concerns the article looked too much like an advertisement. However, I'd like to see more coverage of radio stations in the Middle East and feel the article could be improved if brought to the attention of this WikiProject. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I've just done a general cleanup on the article, added a format category, and made some formatting fixes but it could certainly use some more attention from somebody who knows broadcasting in that neck of the world a little better. Oh, and it needs references. - Dravecky (talk) 01:14, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

And call letters. Squidfryerchef (talk) 13:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Does Jordan use call letters at all? Bearcat (talk) 02:38, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Jordanian callsigns begin with "JY". Squidfryerchef (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

{{RadioRebroadcasters}}

Could somebody who's knowledgeable about complex template coding help me add a column to this template to link to the {{RecnetCanada}} profiles for Canadian radio stations, similarly to how the equivalent American template has a column for FCC and RadioLocator links? I've noticed that there's some hidden residual FCC coding in the Canadian template, but I'm not sure how to change it over. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 05:27, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Think I know what you mean - try that. JPG-GR (talk) 05:51, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Woohoo! You're my new hero for the week! Bearcat (talk) 06:34, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, I did make the template originally hehe. JPG-GR (talk) 00:57, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

A Heads Up

Over on the TV Station WikiProject, we have run into a user that is changing "and" to "&" and "at" to "@" (both in schedules and in mid-sentences). Plus, the user is removing the "A.M." and "P.M." from some schedules, against MOS. I bring this to your attention, as he has begun editing radio station pages as well. Another Wikipedia user has shown concern that this is a sockpuppet for Dingbat2007. Whether it is or not, I can't say, as I am not sure if a checkuser has been performed. Just a heads up....NeutralHomer ^talk|edits 05:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

The fix for this is quite easy - remove the schedule per WP:NOT#DIR. JPG-GR (talk) 05:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

WVBR-FM schedule

The program schedule on WVBR-FM has been removed and readded several times. The editor who is insisting this information be in the article points to the provision in WP:NOT#DIR that state mention of major events, promotions or historically significant programme lists and schedules (such as the annual United States network television schedules) may be acceptable as their reason. I'm having trouble equating the current weekend local program schedule a college radio station with the the annual network television schedule. I've left the section alone for now but would appreciate some expert opinion from WPRS types, discussion is on the Talk:WVBR-FM page.--Rtphokie (talk) 19:06, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I've removed that as well as a lot more cruft, citing WP:NOT#DIR, WP:IINFO, and WP:NOTWEBHOST. The amount of sheer unnecessary information in that article was ridiculous. WVBR-FM != www.wvbr-fm.com (or whatever it is). JPG-GR (talk) 00:45, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Looking at their website, they were actually including the wiki article as the sole content of the stations history page. And interesting, and lazy way to maintain the history of the station. This probably encouraged the cruft to build up.--Rtphokie (talk) 01:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Also a bad idea from a PR perspective - what happens when a listener visits the page via a link and its been vandalized in any number of ways? JPG-GR (talk) 01:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the editor in question has confirmed an affiliation with the station in question that constitues a conflict of interest on my talk page (he/she is a former GM). I've left an olive branch of sorts on the editor's talk page, reminding them of COI concerns and offering WP:WPRS's assistance and making nuetral improvments of the page on his/her behalf. Thanks to NuetralHome (welcome back) and JPG-GR for stepping in on this one. The college radio pages can be some of the most contentious. --Rtphokie (talk) 05:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to all for your "help" in resolving this conflict. Oh wait, there were only two of you. Nevermind. See Talk:WVBR-FM. Weathermandan (talk) 15:10, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

There were at least three of us helping (with no ironic quotation marks) you improve this article and bring it up to Wikipedia standards because that's what we at the WPRS do. - Dravecky (talk) 01:57, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Detroit Radio market template

Question for y'all: there's been a lot of back and forth over the years as to whether radio stations in Windsor, Ontario, Canada should be directly included in the Detroit, Michigan radio template. The state of things at this particular point is that three of the Windsor stations are listed in that template, while the other 10 aren't. I'd like to ask what criterion is being used to draw that distinction — it clearly isn't reception, because CBE and CBEF are known to get at least to Ann Arbor — and what should be done about it: should the Windsor stations come off the template, on the basis that the Detroit template already contains a text link to the {{Southwestern Ontario Radio}} template, or should the ten Windsor stations that aren't on the Detroit template be added to it? Either way, the current situation isn't acceptable. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 01:00, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The best way, IMHO, is to find the most recent station in Detroit to have been sold. There will likely be included in the FCC filings a copy of the BIA market definition for Detroit. Whichever Windsor stations are listed there are considered to be part of the Detroit market by the FCC, so that should be good enough for us. Since Clear Channel owns in Detroit, you can look for application BTC-20061212BZV (you have to use the "Group ALTC Search" in CDBS to find this), and look at Exhibit 18-2, "Radio Multiple Ownership"; the Detroit market listing, which starts on page 78, includes four Windsor stations: CKLW, CIDR, CIMX, and CKWW. It also lists two Toledo stations and two Flint stations. I don't know why the CBC stations are not included; it may be because the CBC officially does not target cross-border listenership. 121a0012 (talk) 01:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

If your method is implying that Flint stations should be in the Detroit market, I'm opposing the use of this method. JPG-GR (talk) 01:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

You have an impartial third-party source for your preferences, or just original research? I'm suggesting that we should use the method the FCC uses. For Arbitron-rated markets, that is what the BIAfn tables show. 121a0012 (talk) 02:01, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I've argued this a million times and I will continue to do so - WJR can be heard in many markets, but that doesn't mean it should have many market templates at the bottom of the article. WJR is a Detroit station and should be listed in the Detroit market template. Any other markets that might include WJR (which, of course, identifies itself as a station licensed to Detroit, Michigan at least once an hour) should have the appropriate links to the Detroit market template (and likely do). JPG-GR (talk) 02:10, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant strawman. The FCC doesn't care about which markets a station can be heard in; it is only concerned about the markets in which a station participates economically. Skywave listening doesn't count; solicitation of advertising and appearance in the ratings book do. (Which is why the market definitions used are the ones drawn up by BIA Financial Network, a company whose business is selling reports about stations' advertising revenues, which are in turn based on their Arbitron ratings.) 121a0012 (talk) 04:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

In the United States, the markets the templates refer to are determined by Arbitron, not the FCC. I'd rather see something more concrete and referencable used in determining the content of these market templates, at least in the United States. Arbitron's market definitions as published on Radio and Records for commercial stations, and [http://www.rrconline.org Radio Research Corporation's publication of public radio and other non-commercial station data. In Detroit's case, there are 3 Canadian licensed stations that show up in the ratings book for the Detroit market, so I tend to think that they belong in the market navigation box.--Rtphokie (talk) 11:48, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Request for assistance

I'm a part of WP:Kansas and have just set up two stubs at KNCK and KCKS, as well as a re-direct at KVCO. I'd like some assistance in setting up these articles more in line with your project standards. Can anyone step in and help?--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Updated the pages with standard information, while Dravecky‎ added history information to the pages. Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk 17:27, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Looks great! Thank you so much!--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem. You're Welcome :) - NeutralHomer • Talk 19:18, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

US Callsigns in FCC database prepended with various letters?

What do these mean? Example WMYB's callsign change history has an entry for SWMYB, does this mean silent? Does 'D' mean deleted? Are there others?--Rtphokie (talk) 11:54, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the "D" means deleted, as in the station doesn't exist anymore (as opposed to a call letter change, where then it would just show the call letters). I would guess the "S" means silent (I've never seen it in the database) but we are talking about a government agency so the obvious sometimes isn't the answer...MrMarkTaylor ^{What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box} 13:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

My first guess on "S" was "operator error", but checking the call_sign_history table, there are 43 such entries, not all of them with "W" callsigns. Suggest you write cdbsinfo at fcc.gov and ask what it means. 121a0012 (talk) 02:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, "D" does mean Delete. I think maybe "S" means "Swap". I am not sure though. WAYZ also had the "S" in their call sign history, when that happened, WAYZ swapped calls with WWMD. Call Sign WWMD went from 104.7 to 101.5, and WAYZ went from 101.5 to 104.7. So, it could mean "swap". I am not sure though. - NeutralHomer • Talk 03:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Translator infobox questions

Why is there a place to add the xlator class when they're ALL class D? Also, how come it used to go up to xlator 30 & now it only goes to 21? Does this mean they can also go to 99 or 999 (I'm thinking Calvary Chapel here)? Stereorock (talk) 21:10, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

If you are referring to Template:RadioTranslators, it has never had more than 21 slots. If you are referring to Template:Infobox Radio station, then there has never been any specialized shots for multiple stations. Either way, if you're referring to the Calvary Chapel network in general, neither is the appropriate template anyway... so I'm rather lost.

I remember seeing the translator thing go to 30 so I'm wondering if it can go to 99 or 999 (the Calvary Chapel reference is because they have over 100 xlators).Stereorock (talk) 01:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

need a reference

Hello, I'm not a part of this project, but the help desk suggested I ask here.

The article Janis Ian states that an Atlanta radio station burned down after playing her first record, "Society's Child". This is in her autobiography, but there are no details. Can someone confirm that an Atlanta radio station burned about 1966-67? And if so, was there any indication that it was burned for playing her song? Thank you, Bubba73 (talk), 16:45, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

My Google-fu didn't find a name but this info was in the press before it was in the autobiography [2] so I'd give it some validity. Also, perhaps some lucky editor could visit Ms. Ian on her book tour and just ask her. (Original research, I know, but know where to look would certainly make digging for reliable third-party sources a lot easier.) - Dravecky (talk) 01:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, but that information may have come from her. I'm trying to get some specifics and verification (i.e. what station, when, and what did the fire marshall say about the cause). Bubba73 (talk), 02:09, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Want to create a new template & a new tag

I wanted to create one for Tokyo radio & a tag, like the HD radio one, for A.M. stereo stations including the A.M. stereo logo, which is in the public domain as far as I know. It was created by people on A.M. stereo e-mail lists.Stereorock (talk) 01:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd be a lot more comfortable if the copyright status of the image were clearer or the actual creator of the logo uploaded it to Commons themselves. - Dravecky (talk) 01:31, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Understood. I'm going to ask over on the A.M. stereo e-mail lists if they remember who created it.Stereorock (talk) 02:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I've asked & am awaiting an answer. Maybe better would be just a list a la the Eco-Friendly stations list & the list of clear-channel stations.Stereorock (talk) 03:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there a category for Tokyo radio stations? JPG-GR (talk) 02:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I think there's one for Asian media in general but nothing specific for Tokyo. I just made a template Template:Tokyo Radio but am going to check WRTH for additional data.Stereorock (talk) 02:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

I just checked & there's already a template for Tokyo T.V.Stereorock (talk) 02:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

KMBQ-FM

Whomever wrote this wrote it as an ad for the radio station.Stereorock (talk) 03:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Looks like User:Emarsee handled it quite nicely. - Dravecky (talk) 20:31, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Question

Nobody's suggesting that we write up separate articles, don't worry, but I've noticed an increasing tendency for some people to document unsuccessful radio station applications on the applicant's corporate article and/or the relevant "Media in City" lists (see e.g. Media in Timmins#Denials of proposed radio stations). So I'd like to ask for input — do people see any real encyclopedic value to this (I don't, but it's happening often enough that there should be a discussion rather than a unilateral removal campaign), and should we or shouldn't we be doing it? Bearcat (talk) 18:45, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Maybe in an extreme case (repeated denials for some reason), but otherwise it's just cruft. JPG-GR (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, I agree that there are cases where the denial is notable in and of itself — Milestone Radio, frex, is a case where the license denials are so inherently notable (explosive blow to the commercial viability of Canadian hip hop, yadda yadda) that the company might potentially merit an article even if it hadn't finally hit paydirt — but I don't think Wikipedia should be in the business of caring that some local Joe or Jane Schmo who'll never have an article of their own anyway didn't get a license for a standalone CHR in a small city in 1987. Though colour me mystified as to why a denied application has a Recnet entry for its denied call sign. Bearcat (talk) 19:21, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Another one

While we're on the subject of cruft, do we care about details such as these?

1. what day of the week a given date fell on (e.g. writing "Sunday, August 24, 2008" instead of just "August 24, 2008"),
2. the exact time of a given event (e.g. that a station officially hit the air at 8:37 a.m.),
3. what particular song a station kicked off with?

- Bearcat (talk) 19:14, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

As long as it's used for a little color in a potentially dry article to enhance readability and as long as these are properly sourced, I can't see any harm in having this sort of detail in the article - Dravecky (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

I'd say the day of the week is useless, but sign-on time and first song (or last song, as the case may be) can be an interesting tidbit... if it can be sourced. JPG-GR (talk) 20:39, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

WAPL-FM

I was in the process of correcting links to the WAPL disambiguation page, and I found that WAPL-FM has changed its call sign to simply WAPL effective 04/08/2008. I've changed the infobox to reflect the correct call sign, but there's still the matter of the article being named incorrectly now. As a relative newcomer to working with radio/television station articles, I wanted to ask for some opinions on the best course of action:

1. Move the WAPL-FM article to WAPL (FM), update links to the article accordingly, and update the disambiguation page
2. Since the only other article listed at the disambiguation page is for an airport with the ICAO code matching those initials, add a hatnote about the airport to the WAPL-FM page, and ask for a page move from WAPL-FM to WAPL
3. Since WAPL (FM) already redirects to WAPL-FM, do nothing

Thoughts? Mlaffs (talk) 15:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Number 1. Georgia guy (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Number 2 is the appropriate solution. If nothing else, Dravecky will see this and take care of it in due time. :) JPG-GR (talk) 17:40, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, number 2 is the more appropriate solution. I'll add it to today's pile of fixes. - Dravecky (talk) 21:46, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

There we go, all fixed now. - Dravecky (talk) 22:43, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Category:United States radio by format templates

What's up with the proliferation of these templates lately - I fail to see the use of a template that lists every News/Talk radio station in a particular state. JPG-GR (talk) 23:44, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I can see how it could be useful for navigation among similarly formatted stations in a distinct geographical area. What I don't see is them being thoughtfully crafted (lots of pointers to disambiguation pages, some pointed at duplicate stations) nor any movement to keep them maintained. - Dravecky (talk) 23:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, the idea is a good one, but whoever is putting them together is forgetting to edit them (disambig pages, stations that aren't that format). User:MrMarkTaylor ^{What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box} 02:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

I left a couple of notes on his talk page about the disambiguation problem when he first created the templates a couple of weeks ago - he said he'd go back and fix them, but I'm still running across disambiguation that's needed all over the place. I'm cleaning it up as I come across it - I think all the Ks should be done now, and I'm up to about WC on the Ws. I think he's using the information at ontheradio.net to put them together, which doesn't appear to be particularly up-to-date. Mlaffs (talk) 02:31, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

On each of the format templates for in Maryland, Virginia, and West Virginia I have corrected the linkage, added stations that were left out, and removed some that were no longer carrying that format. The person doing the templates is doing a big undertaking, but the disambig problem does need to be fixed. - NeutralHomer • Talk 02:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Australian article naming

I have added Australian FM radio to the note in the article naming conventions as one of the places where the name of the station should typically be used instead of the callsign, unless the call sign is well-known. Australian radio stations don't have any regulatory requirement to identify their call signs on air, and generally on the FM band the call signs aren't used to identify the station, even within the industry (e.g. radio ratings). The use of the call sign is completely confusing to the reader who will most likely never have heard the call sign of the station. Twice now I have had to revert well-meaning page moves by people who don't realise that about Australian radio, so I believe it's beneficial to have it expressly spelled out as it is for Central and South American radio. - Mark 07:17, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

jazzfm.com to Jazz FM

I am in need of some help and guidance on where to proceed when jazzfm.com is renamed as Jazz FM (which currently is a disambiguation page) on October 6 in regards to how the article should be named and/or moved to. If anyone can make suggestions, please do so on the articles talk page. Your help is much apprechiated. Thank you. --tgheretford (talk) 22:56, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

After examining the articles, I'd suggest renaming the jazzfm.com article to "Jazz FM (UK)" and updating the link from the much-needed disambiguation page. - Dravecky (talk) 02:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Radio stations that change frequencies

You have a section on stations changing format, but what about frequencies?

In the WYFQ article there is a brief mention of when WSOC was on 1240 and WIST on 930, and then they swapped frequencies in the 1960s. Both the WYFQ article and the WHVN article discuss the histories of WSOC and WIST prior to the swap, though the WHVN article goes into more detail. Ironically, WHVN didn't even start out on 1240, so there is yet another frequency change to deal with for that station.

What I did on the WSFM article was, since there was quite a bit on WSFM after its move to 98.3, to move the early history from the WAZO article. WSFM was on 107.1 and then 107.5 before moving to 98.3. WAZO has a very short history, part of which was at 98.3 before the move to 107.5. It seems correct to keep the history with the call letters and format in these cases.

It gets more confusing for situations like WSYN. That station essentially traded frequencies with WYAK, but it was like a whole new station started where WSYN was--WLFF. Still, WLFF and WYAK both had country formats.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:14, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

It's very unlikely that two stations would swap frequencies and neither of them not maintain some semblance of their former selves . Whichever station is undergoing the bigger change should probably be the one to get the "homeless" history. JPG-GR (talk) 00:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Underpopulated radio station categories

The following radio station categories are tagged with the {{popcat}} template as underpopulated:

• Category:Radio stations in Brazil
• Category:Radio stations in Colombia
• Category:Radio stations in Croatia
• Category:Radio stations in Estonia
• Category:Radio stations in Gaspésie–Îles-de-la-Madeleine
• Category:Radio stations in Iraq
• Category:Radio stations in Jalisco
• Category:Radio stations in Lanaudière
• Category:Radio stations in Latvia
• Category:Radio stations in Minneapolis-St. Paul
• Category:Radio stations in Nord-du-Québec
• Category:Radio stations in Slovakia
• Category:Radio stations in Tuvalu
• Category:Radio stations in Zimbabwe
• Category:Radio stations in the Cayman Islands

Any effort that could be made to resolve these tags would be greatly appreciated. - Dravecky (talk) 01:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

One done. JPG-GR (talk) 01:47, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I've taken it off the Canadian and Cayman categories. Bearcat (talk) 02:40, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Why? Those categories have only 2 to 6 entries each. By any measure, they're underpopulated. - Dravecky (talk) 03:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Not being overly versed in those areas... if they're as full as possible (i.e. all stations in those regions are included), it's not a matter of their being underpopulated... but existing unnecessarily. Not saying that's the case, though. JPG-GR (talk) 04:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

They're not all as full as possible, unfortunately. (Only one radio station in Brazil?) For example, what I was hoping would happen would for somebody to take an underpopulated category like Category:Radio stations in the Cayman Islands and create well-formed and referenced starter articles for the dozen "missing" radio stations plus add a shiny new navigation template to actually fill up the category. (While I was in there, I also updated and cleaned up the few existing articles then added logos, where available.) Now a whole (small) country with a booming radio industry is properly represented in Wikipedia. That's what I was hoping for when I posted the original request. - Dravecky (talk) 19:45, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

They're not all as full as possible (not even the ones I removed it from), but policy around the popcat template is that it's not supposed to be used to denote "not all of the potential articles for this category exist yet" — it's only supposed to be used to convey "most or all of the relevant the articles are already on WP but just haven't been refiled here yet". The issue with the Quebec subcategories is that because the parent category has to be subcategorized by language, some stations simply get isolated from the main category if the language categories don't coexist with a comprehensive regional breakdown. So it's one of those sets that needs to exist comprehensively even if we end up with one or two categories that would ordinarily be deemed too small.

The Canadian radio contingent (which is rather small, unfortunately) are doing our best to fill up the Canadian radio categories, but small-town stations in Quebec tend to be harder to find good references for — Nord-du-Québec, in particular, is really problematic; there's a whole range of stations up there (anything on List of radio stations in Quebec whose owner is listed as "Club Social du Nord-Est") whose mere existence is the only detail about them that can be properly verified in the usual sources, and thus we can't write anything about them until we can figure out what kind of programming they actually air. In truth, they're mostly community-owned rebroadcasters of commercial stations from the bigger cities in southern Quebec, but with only a few exceptions to date it's particularly difficult to find out which stations. Bearcat (talk) 19:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Coast to Coast AM affiliates category.

Hi everyone. I have taken on a kind of ambitious category creation, and created "Category:Coast to Coast AM affiliates". All of the affiliate stations of the show could go under this category. More information on the stations is available on the category's page. I would appreciate any help on adding stations to this category. I have already done most of the west and parts of the Midwest USA. To me, this category is extremely relevant because it helps those of us who are into DXing help find C2C stations since that's a lot of what we hear at night on AM.

Any thoughts, suggestions? Milonica (talk) 03:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

While I see how this could be a good idea (and it is) it would open the door for all kinds of categories like "Category:Rush Limbaugh Show affiliates" or "Category:AT40 affiliates". I like the idea though, but I am just wondering what precendent would be set by creating it. - NeutralHomer • Talk 03:30, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

As I said, it just organizes the data more, and I guess a bit selfishly helps me with my DXing. I see your point though. Any more thoughts? I spent a few hours on this project and I don't really want to abandon it as it would require going back and deleting all of the categories off of the stations I did (which at last count was 105 pages). That is, unless there is a bot that automatically cleans up orphaned categories?Milonica (talk) 04:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I dug up this from the archives, about radio show categories, but this was from 2 years ago. I like the idea of radio shows having their own category of some sort, but some shows (Coast to Coast included) have different formats/versions (Coast to Coast has a weeknight version, weekend and a Saturday night "Somewhere In Time" Art Bell Best of). Not all stations carry all versions of a show, but I could be splitting hairs at this point. User:MrMarkTaylor ^{What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box} 04:44, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, CFD policy generally goes against categories of this type as WP:OCAT, although lists are very much permitted. Bearcat (talk) 20:33, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

WDXE

Boy, y'all don't mess around, do you? Thanks for the save! How the heck do you get a stub pulled together and up that quickly?

As I've been working through the disambiguations, I'd come across a bunch of pages like that one, so I figured they were a good — and accepted — approach, and I've created more as I've come across multi-station calls that were missing a dab page. Someone tried to speedy one last week, but an admin took the tag off pretty quickly. Am I wrong, or was this Afd actually as much out of left field as it seemed to me? Mlaffs (talk) 21:37, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Not a problem :) I keep templates of pages saved and just add the information from the FCC database, 100000watts.com, and Radio-Locator.com.....plus logos from the station's website (with proper F-URs, of course). Takes about 10 minutes, 15 if the servers are slow :) If you ever need help again, please don't hesitate to ask :) Take Care...NeutralHomer • Talk 22:23, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Market templates/Nielsen DMCA request on TVS

Just wanted to let you all know that you might want to plan to rework the radio station market templates to excise the Arbitron ranking data. It's not been a pretty night for the TV stations project, as A.C. Nielsen filed a DMCA request with WMF, got an OTRS ticket out and knocked out all 210 TV market templates in one fell swoop because they contained the Nielsen DMA data, which they say is their copyrighted property. I'm thinking Arbitron might go after your templates next. Hopefully I'm just doling out some unfounded FUD in your case, but this gives you some warning time. Nate • (chatter) 09:53, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I knew this was coming. Months ago I said we shouldn't be posting ratings info at all, and when it rains it pours. JPG-GR (talk) 16:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd suggest a good first step would be to rename all the "(state) Arbitron market navigational boxes" categories as "(state) radio market navigational boxes". - Dravecky (talk) 18:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dravecky, let's just wipe Arbitron off the templates. Even though they aren't claiming ownership of anything yet, let's not give 'em a reason to. Also, since the way the TV "markets" were named (like Washington, D.C. DMA) would it be a good idea to slightly rename all the radio markets that are Arbitron rated? - NeutralHomer • Talk 18:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I also have some concerns about the "format" information, are we relying too heavily on ratings services? Perhaps we should establish our own set of formats which don't correspond exactly to Arbitron's or anyone else's. Squidfryerchef (talk) 18:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

"Format" as in music, or "Format" as in ratings? Cause if it is music, Country is Country...Rock is Rock...Pop is Pop. - NeutralHomer • Talk 19:34, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, stations self-identify by format and this is a common bit of data widely available from several sources. There's no need for us to change "Adult Contemporary" to anything else but scraping the Arbitron links off the templates and category names (but not the links in the articles) is looking more and more like a good idea. - Dravecky (talk) 21:41, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

If everybody, not just Arbitron, calls a station "Adult Contemporary", then that's OK. But if we have too many cites where only Arbitron refers to the station as "Adult Contemporary", that's trouble, and keeping the data but removing the attribution might cause even more trouble. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:12, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

The different guides to radio stations out there, such as Arbitron, WRTH, and 100000watts.com each have a set of standard formats they have for each of the radio stations in their databases. What one service calls "Pop" another might split into "Top 40" and "Adult Contemporary". If we're describing a station, and all three guides plus the station's own website plus secondary-source ariticles all use the word "rock", we should have no issues with "rock" in the template; it might not even need a citation because it's "general knowledge".

But just like with Nielsen's grouping of TV market areas, these guides will have their own proprietary groupings of stations into classical, jazz, etc. If a guide uses unique terminology for formats, we have to be careful. We have to make sure we don't use it too heavily. If one guide's unique take on a station really "fits", we can cite it. Citing them for a few stations is fair use. But citing their entire database , piece-by-piece, is a copyvio. Squidfryerchef (talk) 22:06, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Just saying what a station's format (what that station plays) isn't a copyvio or fair use. - NeutralHomer • Talk 22:09, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to make sure on that one :) Because we list the format on the infoboxes of each station page. - NeutralHomer • Talk 22:16, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Generic templates

Some well-meaning editor has slapped a generic navigation-by-state template on all of the media, television, and radio station by state categories. This isn't much of a problem except it leaves the D.C. category as a redlink and he created Category:Radio stations in Georgia as a redirect to the correct Category:Radio stations in Georgia (U.S. state). We either need to eliminate the redirect or constantly patrol this new, easy to type but terribly wrong category. I don't see the benefit to this generic by-state nav template so I'd be completely okay if it was removed, at least from the radio categories, or replaced with a properly built radio-oriented template. - Dravecky (talk) 05:23, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Nuke the templates from the cat pages. No added navigational value, more trouble than it's worth, and wasn't discussed before it was mass-added. The worst part being Category:Radio stations in Georgia being redirected. JPG-GR (talk) 06:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I've pulled it off the 49 states it was still on (fast work on Michigan, JPG-GR!) and marked the errant category redirect for speedy deletion. - Dravecky (talk) 06:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much everything Michigan-related is on my watchlist - I rm'd it when I noticed it earlier. Was waiting to see what would occur first - discussion here or a re-add by the editor before proceeding. JPG-GR (talk) 06:41, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

This editor has been on a strong template creation and placement kick in all of the broadcast categories. None appear to have been discussed and none of them are particularly well crafted. - Dravecky (talk) 06:51, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Update: If the category link above is still red then the completed speedy deletion is still holding. - Dravecky (talk) 10:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Or, someone made a category for radio stations in Georgia. ;) JPG-GR (talk) 16:44, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

We already have Category:Radio stations in Georgia (country) so that would be wrong, too. (Hmm, that category seems underpopulated but I know nothing about the region and do not speak the language. Dang.) - Dravecky (talk) 22:19, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there a way to create category disambiguations? If there is, it might be worth creating Category:Radio stations in Georgia as a disambiguation page which directs people to the correct categories for the country and the state, if only as a defense against somebody trying to create it as an actual category again. Bearcat (talk) 18:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Disambiguation discussion re radio/TV station articles

Resolved

David Levy and I are having a spirited and frightfully civil debate over the best approach to disambiguation of radio/TV station articles, on my talk page at User talk:Mlaffs#WBZ. According to the outlines at WP:DAB, both our preferred approaches are valid, so we're looking to get some consensus on one or the other. I've posted this note at WT:DAB as well, so I think it's best if we keep the discussion consolidated on my talk page. All comments are welcome! Mlaffs (talk) 00:26, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I would stick with having the disambig on WBZ, moving the radio station back to WBZ (AM) and having the TV station remain at WBZ-TV. - NeutralHomer • Talk 01:00, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I heartily agree with NeutralHomer and have explained at length on User talk:Mlaffs. - Dravecky (talk) 03:24, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Not to add, but I agree with both above. If we get rid of the disambig page, what gets priority? The most listened/watched station? (That'd get us into even deeper mud with the current market/DMCA takedown). User:MrMarkTaylor ^{What's that?/What I Do/Feed My Box} 03:33, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

For the sake of sanity, any FCC-licensed station should be of equal importance as any other. JPG-GR (talk) 05:46, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

I invite anybody with a reasoned opinion on this topic to join in the discussion taking place on WT:DAB. - Dravecky (talk) 10:15, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

This has now been resolved. The radio station is back at WBZ (AM) and the disambiguation back in place at WBZ. Following discussion, WP:MOSDAB has also been revised to remove the option of using the redirect/hatnote combo as an alternative to a disambiguation page when there are only two articles and neither is primary — using a disambiguation page is now shown as the correct approach. Thanks to all who weighed in. Mlaffs (talk) 16:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Program schedules

In accordance with both WP:NOTDIR and past discussion on this talk page, I've removed program schedules from several radio station articles in the past few days. However, at least one editor has challenged me on this, stating that a member of this project directly told him that airstaff lists were permissible as long as they didn't actually cite the exact times that any particular host was on the air.

I'd just like to point out that a list of on-air personalities which is differentiated into "morning", "midday", "afternoon", "evening" and "weekend" shifts is still a schedule — it doesn't magically become okay just because it uses general terms for dayparts instead of numeric time blocks. The core rationale behind the policy was not that articles should simply avoid listing specific times for its programs; it was that radio station articles shouldn't list non-notable programs at all. Bearcat (talk) 20:57, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

While aggressively removing schedules from station articles, I've generally left a couple of sentences about current weekday hosts alone or even converted the schedules into such prose on the theory that a station's current programming is generally notable. That doesn't mean every board op and weekender, for sure, but noting "Current weekday programming includes The Morning Mayhem with Jack Schmidt and Anne Example, Joan Jones on mid-days, and Rick Something in afternoon drive" is useful to the reader, normally verifiable via the station's website, and only slightly more subject to change than a station's format. It can also serve as a useful starter for a section on the station's programming or history, easily expanded or updated by an editor more familiar with the station or more focused on a few local stations rather than the whole of radio. - Dravecky (talk) 21:31, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

That's completely fine, absolutely. What I'm concerned about is lists, organized under the title "airstaff", that only note which particular host holds down which particular daypart, and which certain editors then claim aren't "schedules" only because they don't actually cite the precise times that any given host is on the air. There are perfectly valid and encyclopedic ways to include content about a radio station's programming in its article, but that approach isn't one of them. CFNY-FM, on the other hand, is one of the prime examples of an article which gives significant context and background for each of its programs, and thus can't be dismissed as a pure "schedule". Bearcat (talk) 21:40, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely, such lists should be converted to a sentence or two of prose, no question. - Dravecky (talk) 21:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

KQRS-FM

I've been dealing with an IP editor who, at first, was shortening everything to simply "KQ" where it shouldn't have been and breaking image links. Now he has decided that "Minnesota's Classic Rock" isn't a classic rock station and puts non-existent templates in there. Any help? --Sable232 (talk) 21:48, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Requested move: WPTI to WRKA

• WPTI → WRKA —(Discuss)— WPTI no longer exists --Greghahn (talk) 02:20, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Prior to July 18, WRKA was on 103.1 MHz in Louisville Kentucky. On 103.9 MHz was another radio station, WPTI.

On July 18, Cox Radio changed the call letters of both stations. 103.1 became WQNU. The WRKA call letters were moved to 103.9.

The WQNU page is correct. The WRKA page is entitled "WPTI". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WPTI

The page for WRKA is a disambiguation page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WRKA

The disambiguation page is totally unnecessary.

The disambiguation page is still warranted but the move from WPTI to WRKA (FM) is still very much needed. I've updated the disambiguation page and put a speedy tag on the updated redirect to untangle this Gordian knot. - Dravecky (talk) 03:12, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, it's moved over and the proper links have all been updated. - Dravecky (talk) 10:47, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

WARL moved to WARL (AM)

Because there is another organization which uses WARL as an acronym, I've moved the information about WARL to WARL (AM), which was a redirect page to WARL. On the WARL page is now a page offering to manually redirect users to either the radio station or the Western Australia Rugby League.Stereorock (talk) 02:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC) I added the double brackets to the above paragraph for assistance.Stereorock (talk) 02:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

The hatlink suffices - I've reverted. More importantly, cut&paste page moves are a no-no. JPG-GR (talk) 03:42, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, standard practice for disambiguation pages requires them only when there are two primary identifications or three or more primary or secondary identifications. Since the acronym for a proper name is a secondary identification, the hat note on the radio station article is sufficient. And cut-and-paste moves are a tremendous violation of the basic tenets of the encyclopedia. Please don't repeat that procedure. - Dravecky (talk) 14:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused now. What cut & paste move?Stereorock (talk) 15:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Wait, I might have it now. Is the cut & paste move in reference to how I moved the information from WARL to WARL (AM)? If so, how else is information supposed to be transferred?Stereorock (talk) 15:50, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

There's a "Move" tab at the top of the page - it ensures that all of the history moves with the text, and automatically creates a redirect from the old name. Mlaffs (talk) 16:19, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Radio station infobox

I'd like to suggest a couple of potential modifications to the infobox that's currently used on radio station articles. The way the box is designed right now, the "name" field is the only place in the infobox where a North American station's call sign can be inserted into the infobox, and an on-air name ends up getting listed under "branding" instead, whereas in the countries that don't use call signs the on-air name just goes directly into the name field and the branding field is unnecessary. So this creates a bit of confusion about which identifier belongs where — and I have seen a few North American cases which have come to the brink of edit warring over whether the call sign or the on-air name is more properly described as the station's "name".

Thus, I'd like to propose the following potential changes:

1. Add a new field for "callsign =".
2. Merge "branding =" with "name =". Whichever title is chosen, we can still code it in such a way that it's the primary header at the top of the infobox if no call sign is present, but becomes a secondary header if the callsign = field is populated.

This way, there's less ambiguity about which piece of information belongs in which field, while still retaining the distinction between stations in countries where call signs are used and those where they aren't.

Another alternative would be to kill the branding field altogether, and instead list both the callsign and the brand name of a North American radio station in its name field (e.g. name = WPLJ<br>95.5 PLJ or name = WPLJ (95.5 PLJ).)

Any other input? Bearcat (talk) 00:01, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I feel strongly that we need to keep the callsign and the brand name quite separate in the infobox. I'd be completely okay with adding a "callsign" field as it's clearer than the potentially ambiguous "name" field but let's leave "branding" alone. - Dravecky (talk) 01:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Dravecky, the top of the infobox should be the callsign, leave the branding to the branding section. - NeutralHomer • Talk 02:17, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

The reason I proposed what I did, however, is that outside of North America, many radio stations don't have callsigns. So if we rename "name =" to "callsign =" without doing something about "branding =", then radio stations outside of North America end up with no names on top of their infoboxes at all. But if we add "callsign =" without doing something about "name =", then we end up with two fields competing for top-of-box status. Bearcat (talk) 03:18, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

WHat if we relocate branding directly under where "name" is now (and "callsign" would be) so if a station has only a callsign then only the callsign is displayed, if a station only has a branding ID then only the branding is displayed, and if both fields are filled in then "callsign" goes on the top line and "branding" is on the line under it. - Dravecky (talk) 04:09, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

In the case of English (UK) stations, they use the branding at the top of the Infobox. On Australia stations, it is the Callsign (like on US stations). So...UK, Branding....US/Aussie, Callsign. - NeutralHomer • Talk 05:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

That's kind of what I meant, yeah :-) Bearcat (talk) 15:45, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good generally. However, "branding" sounds so cheap and trendy. How about "Common name"? Korky Day (talk) 18:44, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

That sound so... common. Branding is the industry accepted term. - Dravecky (talk) 02:27, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

User:FMBlogger has been warned to stop

To all who have been iritated by this user, he has been warned and reported to the Administator's Notice Board. Thanks. --RoomDownUnitStage (talk) 01:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

OK I've stopped. If you want, just delete all of my work and close my account. I don't care anymore. --FMBlogger (talk) 01:24, 29 September 2008 (UTC)